Lost a ten point

[TDubbs12]

I try to aim where I want the arrow to exit. From the OP's pic, that would be a good exit point. Making the initial aiming point much higher depending on angle.

 

[KyleND]

Welp it happened, I shot a pretty nice 10 point….but I never found it. He was standing probably 15 yards away and I hunt pretty high up. He had no clue I was there, standing slightly quartering to me. I put the shot on his vitals and let it rip. Below is an example of the angle the deer was standing at with a red dot of where my pin was. This IS NOT the buck I shot. Found my arrow, covered in blood one blade deployed and two blades up, found drips of blood, splotches of blood and then drips again. Dried up over 250 yards from the shot location. He went onto the neighbors property and the blood dried up. Never found him. Judging by my shot placement, I would have thought I was good but I’ve been wrong before. My lessons learned so far are switch to fixed blades and go heavy arrow set up. My other lesson is maybe ever so slightly moving my shot placement more forward than I was. Thoughts?

View attachment 77239

For what it’s worth I hit a buck broadside this year in the shoulder and did not get through. Arrow when he ran away was stuck what looked like on the high side in shoulder. I was shooting an Easton Hexx 260 spine with 225gr ethics archery insert/outsert and 150gr single bevel cutthroat broadhead. Total arrow weight I believe with nocturnal nock is just over 650gr Mathews Creed 27.5” DL @62lbs. Next zero speed I know but I liken it to a freight train . I have been down most of archery’s rabbit holes and I like the logic behind heavy arrows. I want two dang holes in the deer after I shoot period.
All of that said it did not work for me. On that particular deer, with that particular shot, on that particular morning..... I think you know where I am going with this. **** happens!! and as much as we would like to we can’t control everything all the time.

I beat myself up for it same as you are. I will practice more and try to exercise more patience next time.
I think we should also think about how many things we did right to get the opportunities we had. Picking the right spot, time , etc.. Try to focus on some positives.
Lastly I think the fact we take part in these discussions on this board tell me we are all good ethical hunters that want be better and hate just wounding deer.

 

[Ambushd]

Was the arrow stuck in the ground when you found it? Or was it just laying on the ground? We’re the undeployed blades partially up or completely up? How did he react after the shot?

 

[ThePennsylvanian]

Yeah I’ve done some in depth research on arrow tuning lol. I talked myself off the “I need a new bow!” cliff so I’m just going to focus on my arrow tune and really dial that in.

Having lost a potential state record last year, I'm gonna go a different direction here. ........
.
.
.
STOP! Your gear didn't fail you, changing your setup will not take back what happened.
Couple take aways here:
1) you never remember everything as it happened, your mind will try to convince you of what you want to see i.e. a shot better that what occured..
2) focus on learning about after the shot, like blood trailing and trailing without blood, so on and so forth.
3) start shooting again now, get your confidence back in your setup, if you can get a doe hunt in and maybe get one down, that'll get the most recent events out of your head.
4) if you change anything, make it a subtle change, like going to a fixed blade..... while heavy arrows kill deer, they don't do it any better than your current setup, you could have taken that shot with a heavy arrow and fixed and got the same result....
Just slow down, get back out here and hunt, but you'll be disappointed in yourself if you go through a drastic change in your setup and God forbid something else happens like losing another deer. Your setup will kill deer, focus more on what you have.

Now I say all of this from personal experience........ take it or leave it... I know it sucks pretty bad right now, but remember it's just a deer, don't put so much pressure on your self... good luck happy hanging!!!

 

[Fgirtyman]

Without recovering the animal, it's going to be hard to know wether or not your mechanical failed to deploy blades. I've picked arrows up after pass through shots where blades were folded up, and it was clear on recovery of the deer they deployed effectively.

I've never used NAP Spitfires, but handled one made for crossbow hunting and was surprised at how much work was needed to open the blades. Makes me a bit leery of them, but I know as well some folks have good results with them.

I’ve never used anything but fixed blades. I went to my pro shop to try some but because I lowered my poundage to 53lbs. ( my compound). They said I should not to use mechanicals at that poundage. I stuck with their suggestion and haven’t looked back.

 

[Ambushd]

Tracking dog might help ya snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. The only one I ever used didn’t charge me so I’m not sure what the going rate is. For a 10pt? I’d pay up and roll the dice

 

[Plebe]

I don't think backstrap. At that shot angle it is almost impossible to get backstrap and nothing else. I shot a buck a few years ago about 13 yds out and I was close to 20' up. I hit just below the spine and exit was on the opposite side of the sternum,but not by much. In situations like that I would always prefer to hit higher rather than low.

We'll likely never know.

We're working off of a deer picture that isn't from the actual incident. I think degree of quarter can be hard to interpret, so there could be some swag there. As well, how does the camera angle correlate, specifically, to the height and distance of the actual shot? Is there maybe some deviation?

If the deer reacted, dropping backwards, I could see this area in red as highly suspect. But I don't have much personal experience with deer "ducking" at that range, at least to such a degree that a shot was noticeably off target. And OP thought he might have tended to "stay off the shoulder", so it's maybe an unlikely point of impact in this case.

But I thought it might be worth posting this image just for general consumption.

There was a previous thread about liver hits that was an eye opener to me.

Maybe folks have more to share on similar situations they've encountered and there's a lesson or two in it.

 

[Fgirtyman]

I try to aim where I want the arrow to exit. From the OP's pic, that would be a good exit point. Making the initial aiming point much higher depending on angle.

It’s a heart breaker when it happens. If he went 250 yards you may see him again. Personally if you say you were high in your stand a hit in the shoulder blade slid down low and brisket. Who knows. Hindsight’s always 20 20. Over the years I have always found many of my shots were always found to be farther back than I thought. That’s me. Like I said they are heartbreakers but we need to get back on the horse. I bet he’s still alive.

 

[SaddleUpPartner!]

Having lost a potential state record last year, I'm gonna go a different direction here. ........
.
.
.
STOP! Your gear didn't fail you, changing your setup will not take back what happened.
Couple take aways here:
1) you never remember everything as it happened, your mind will try to convince you of what you want to see i.e. a shot better that what occured..
2) focus on learning about after the shot, like blood trailing and trailing without blood, so on and so forth.
3) start shooting again now, get your confidence back in your setup, if you can get a doe hunt in and maybe get one down, that'll get the most recent events out of your head.
4) if you change anything, make it a subtle change, like going to a fixed blade..... while heavy arrows kill deer, they don't do it any better than your current setup, you could have taken that shot with a heavy arrow and fixed and got the same result....
Just slow down, get back out here and hunt, but you'll be disappointed in yourself if you go through a drastic change in your setup and God forbid something else happens like losing another deer. Your setup will kill deer, focus more on what you have.

Now I say all of this from personal experience........ take it or leave it... I know it sucks pretty bad right now, but remember it's just a deer, don't put so much pressure on your self... good luck happy hanging!!!

This is all great advice and I have been back out since this happened. The deer in question was shot the Friday before Halloween so I’ve had some time to think things through. I’ll say this about my arrows, I’ve never tuned them, they’re not even mine I got them with my bow when I bought the bow from my wife’s uncle 5+ years ago. If there’s a chance for me to improve my set up, I’m going to do it. So I’ll hunt with the set up I have until the season is over and then I’ll dive into the fixed blade world. I guess my reason for my switch is I want the confidence to take the “questionable” shot because where I hunt, I don’t get a lot of A+ broadside chances. It’s thick, it’s tight, shot windows aren’t all great. With a broadhead setup that I knew could pass through some stuff, I’d without a doubt moved that pin to the left and let it rip. With that mechanical, I thought I played it safe and it may have cost me. Lots of unknowns about it though, maybe it was shot placement, maybe the broadhead didn’t open, could have jumped the string, I don’t know. I could have killed it and just blew the tracking job but it ran a good distance and out of my hunting area.

 

[Bowonly]

Did the arrow have any bits of meat on it or instead have gut matter or smell?

At that angle, if you put an arrow through the body cavity, the deer died and guts likely plugged the exit hole. This is a perfect scenario for knowing your neighbors and your local dog tracker.

Find a Tracker - United Blood Trackers

All UBT members are eligible to be listed on the Find-A-Tracker map.A listing on the map does not represent The UBT’s endorsement of a tracker’s ability or business practices.Dog and handler teams will have varying levels of experience and training. OR Or, do a more general search by state...

www.unitedbloodtrackers.org

 

[SaddleUpPartner!]

We'll likely never know.

We're working off of a deer picture that isn't from the actual incident. I think degree of quarter can be hard to interpret, so there could be some swag there. As well, how does the camera angle correlate, specifically, to the height and distance of the actual shot? Is there maybe some deviation?

If the deer reacted, dropping backwards, I could see this area in red as highly suspect. But I don't have much personal experience with deer "ducking" at that range, at least to such a degree that a shot was noticeably off target. And OP thought he might have tended to "stay off the shoulder", so it's maybe an unlikely point of impact in this case.

But I thought it might be worth posting this image just for general consumption.

There was a previous thread about liver hits that was an eye opener to me.

Maybe folks have more to share on similar situations they've encountered and there's a lesson or two in it.


View attachment 77280

It very well could have hit high lung on the opposite side of this pic and exited that small section between the guts and the other lung. I’d almost put money on that being the case from what I saw first hand. I did notice drool on the ground and I did find one little drop of blood with some very tiny bubbles. No white hair from what I could see.

 

[SaddleUpPartner!]

Did the arrow have any bits of meat on it or instead have gut matter or smell?

At that angle, if you put an arrow through the body cavity, the deer died and guts likely plugged the exit hole. This is a perfect scenario for knowing your neighbors and your local dog tracker.

Find a Tracker - United Blood Trackers

All UBT members are eligible to be listed on the Find-A-Tracker map.A listing on the map does not represent The UBT’s endorsement of a tracker’s ability or business practices.Dog and handler teams will have varying levels of experience and training. OR Or, do a more general search by state...

www.unitedbloodtrackers.org

No gut smell at all, just blood. Initially I thought I drilled him.

 

[SaddleUpPartner!]

Tracking dog might help ya snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. The only one I ever used didn’t charge me so I’m not sure what the going rate is. For a 10pt? I’d pay up and roll the dice

The thought crossed my mind but where I hunt, it’s not exactly the 100 acre wood. If I classified it as anything, I’d say it was an “urban hunting” type area. Big chunk of land sandwiched in between a bunch of neighborhoods and a farm field to the north. It’s a great spot and gets lots of transit bucks during the rut. He could be on a number of people’s properties or crossed a busy street very easily. I knocked on some doors and some people did let me look around behind their houses but we just never found anything at all.

 

[SaddleUpPartner!]

I shot mechanicals for years starting out and got good kills as long as I hit the soft parts. Looking back, I realize that a lot of those successes should have made me think about the fact that I was not getting pass throughs on 90 pound does and they were running off with my arrows, destroying them in the process. I had some failures in there too and chalked those up to bad luck. What got me to look for a solution was when I shot the biggest buck of my life to that point and the arrow stopped cold like I hit a 2x6. That buck ran off. I never saw him again. The property owner saw him a week or so later.

Adding some weight and FOC to your setup will likely help you overall but as Redsquirrel pointed out, none of this is a replacement for taking high percentage shots. These arrow systems just give you better odds of success when, in spite of doing everything right, things still go wrong. I would think that a 150 Magnus on a 75 to 100 grain insert would serve you pretty well. I shot the 100 grain Magnus Stinger Buzzcuts for several years and really liked them.

This was the exact set up I was thinking haha. I’m not one to take a crazy angled shot either, I honestly didn’t even think his quartering to me was that big of a deal, hence why I even drew the bow back. I think I just didn’t go forward enough and who knows, maybe my arrow setup would have blown through him! I just want a little more peace of mind with my setup.

 

[DelaWhere_Arrow]

Did the arrow have any bits of meat on it or instead have gut matter or smell?

At that angle, if you put an arrow through the body cavity, the deer died and guts likely plugged the exit hole. This is a perfect scenario for knowing your neighbors and your local dog tracker.

Find a Tracker - United Blood Trackers

All UBT members are eligible to be listed on the Find-A-Tracker map.A listing on the map does not represent The UBT’s endorsement of a tracker’s ability or business practices.Dog and handler teams will have varying levels of experience and training. OR Or, do a more general search by state...

www.unitedbloodtrackers.org

I have called local trackers through this site on two occasions, neither of which resulted in dog assistance. That said, the gentlemen I spoke with were absolutely essential to my tracking jobs, because they were able to teach me a lot about tracking AND shot placement/immediately after just over the phone, for free, and also they were really honest about whether their dogs would even be of use given specific conditions. Stuff I wouldn’t have even thought of. And they are the first to remind you that dogs are great but they’re not magic bullets for finding deer. I would highly recommend giving one of these fellers a buzz if you make a questionable shot, get their opinions and if necessary get help from their pups.

 

[Ambushd]

The thought crossed my mind but where I hunt, it’s not exactly the 100 acre wood. If I classified it as anything, I’d say it was an “urban hunting” type area. Big chunk of land sandwiched in between a bunch of neighborhoods and a farm field to the north. It’s a great spot and gets lots of transit bucks during the rut. He could be on a number of people’s properties or crossed a busy street very easily. I knocked on some doors and some people did let me look around behind their houses but we just never found anything at all.

Definitely one of the downsides or tricky parts about urban hunting.

 

[SaddleUpPartner!]

Did the arrow have any bits of meat on it or instead have gut matter or smell?

At that angle, if you put an arrow through the body cavity, the deer died and guts likely plugged the exit hole. This is a perfect scenario for knowing your neighbors and your local dog tracker.

Find a Tracker - United Blood Trackers

All UBT members are eligible to be listed on the Find-A-Tracker map.A listing on the map does not represent The UBT’s endorsement of a tracker’s ability or business practices.Dog and handler teams will have varying levels of experience and training. OR Or, do a more general search by state...

www.unitedbloodtrackers.org

This is way more helpful than google, didn’t realize how many guys had dogs around me. Thank you

 

[Plebe]

This is all great advice and I have been back out since this happened. The deer in question was shot the Friday before Halloween so I’ve had some time to think things through. I’ll say this about my arrows, I’ve never tuned them, they’re not even mine I got them with my bow when I bought the bow from my wife’s uncle 5+ years ago. If there’s a chance for me to improve my set up, I’m going to do it. So I’ll hunt with the set up I have until the season is over and then I’ll dive into the fixed blade world. I guess my reason for my switch is I want the confidence to take the “questionable” shot because where I hunt, I don’t get a lot of A+ broadside chances. It’s thick, it’s tight, shot windows aren’t all great. With a broadhead setup that I knew could pass through some stuff, I’d without a doubt moved that pin to the left and let it rip. With that mechanical, I thought I played it safe and it may have cost me. Lots of unknowns about it though, maybe it was shot placement, maybe the broadhead didn’t open, could have jumped the string, I don’t know. I could have killed it and just blew the tracking job but it ran a good distance and out of my hunting area.

The theme of the Heavy Arrow thing (other than "Adult Sized") is to break bone on poorly placed impacts and improve the chance of lethality on a bad hit.

It's unfortunate, imo, when the Youtube universe is full of examples of big bucks downed with risky shots and the obligatory praise of how the "adult arrow" did it's job. Even hunters who I find genuinely respectful of game have done it. Zach pushing one through tall grass and saying how he couldn't even see the bucks vitals comes to mind. Watched a video the other day of a guy who arrowed a buck shooting straight down. This kind of stuff emboldens many viewers to make poor shot decisions, imo. It's definitely not the aim of Dr. Ashby or Troy Fowlers promotion of heavy arrows, imo.

I get that not every buck is going to offer a perfect shot, and you want to succeed in the margins. But it sounds like you are looking to equipment to be able to chance shots that maybe you shouldn't and confidence not just to succeed on your merits but to overcome your limitations.

When you can enjoy an encounter as much as a kill, successes far outpace disappointments. This is a general statement, not aimed specifically at you, but food for thought.

 

[Topdog]

I killed my first deer with a bow in 1993, I don’t talk much about bow stuff on here because my archery season is a complete joke and I mainly kill deer with a bow only for meat, during that short, joke of a season we have in north NYS. I started with fixed blades and have never switched, why, because they work, when mechanicals first became a thing and all my friends switched, I didn’t, my Muzzy 100’s killed deer, and a lot of them, that first season when all my buddy’s switched some boasted of crazy blood splashed up everywhere type trails, others had the same for a 100 yards then nothing… we always helped each other track during bow season, all I can say is the inconsistency of it all made me keep using my boring Muzzy’s, because they worked, why anyone would want to introduce another failure point into something as simple as launching a knife at an animal is beyond me, lets not overthink this folks, last season after all those years I finally tried some Qad Exodus 125, they worked too, I have no complaints with them.

 

[ThePennsylvanian]

I killed my first deer with a bow in 1993, I don’t talk much about bow stuff on here because my archery season is a complete joke and I mainly kill deer with a bow only for meat, during that short, joke of a season we have in north NYS. I started with fixed blades and have never switched, why, because they work, when mechanicals first became a thing and all my friends switched, I didn’t, my Muzzy 100’s killed deer, and a lot of them, that first season when all my buddy’s switched some boasted of crazy blood splashed up everywhere type trails, others had the same for a 100 yards then nothing… we always helped each other track during bow season, all I can say is the inconsistency of it all made me keep using my boring Muzzy’s, because they worked, why anyone would want to introduce another failure point into something as simple as launching a knife at an animal is beyond me, lets not overthink this folks, last season after all those years I finally tried some Qad Exodus 125, they worked too, I have no complaints with them.

Not looking for a debate, but I really am curious at what makes you think your season is a joke I may not be understanding the regs correctly but it appears that you can hunt from late Sept through into early December... that's longer than some states entire deer seasons combined..... not judging nor looking for a debate just very curious.....