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Lost a ten point

30:55 "Right on the side of the spine, straight down into the, into the probably the heart."

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I’ll continue to beat the wounded horse, the “just get it done / sometimes you’ve gotta take the chance / them deer sure are tough” culture is a turning of the dial to inhumane outcomes, where “patience, shot selection, and maybe not getting the buck” because he’s at 33 is a turning of the dial in the better direction.
 
Ashby advocates shooting deer through both shoulders on purpose to "break them down".

RF, besides being a shill to sell product, is the self appointed "top educator in bowhunting" but doesn't kill deer.

This movement has absolutely emboldened hunters to try lower percentage angles or hit game forward in the "vital v".

I can't understand why we're so willing to plan for a margin of error with our equipment, but not willing to maintain the margin of error into our aiming point and shot selection.
 
SaddleUpPartner! said:
I would never, that shot selection is a joke lmao
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It's easy to say I would never...but it can be hard to hold up to.

I don't know what I'd do in the moment. I've conditioned myself to wait for a different shot or pass on the deer; I've let a couple that would be my biggest bucks walk even though they were at point blank ranges. Every big buck encounter tests my mettle and I hope I can stay true to myself.

Shame helps. Maybe that's a contentious way to put it. More broadly, culture helps. When the culture is where it should be, shame isn't necessary.

Some may remember the original Drury Outdoors Dream Season competition. The boys from Galax took a nice 130" buck on a farm that all the teams were invited to hunt. The shot was slight quarter to, and the Drury's just let their disappointment and dissatisfaction over that shot selection just level the fellow who got the deer. These were a couple of decent fellows from what I know, and they wore that quite a bit. But they aligned themselves, and reflected, and maybe internalized that shift in thinking too.

Now ethics is a dirty word and there's folks arguing in support of some pretty unreasonable stuff.

On the whole, how does our hunting culture rate? How do we build a better culture? What does that mean?

It's never been perfect, but questions like this did't always set off a bomb.
 
Plebe said:
It's easy to say I would never...but it can be hard to hold up to.

I don't know what I'd do in the moment. I've conditioned myself to wait for a different shot or pass on the deer; I've let a couple that would be my biggest bucks walk even though they were at point blank ranges. Every big buck encounter tests my mettle and I hope I can stay true to myself.

Shame helps. Maybe that's a contentious way to put it. More broadly, culture helps. When the culture is where it should be, shame isn't necessary.

Some may remember the original Drury Outdoors Dream Season competition. The boys from Galax took a nice 130" buck on a farm that all the teams were invited to hunt. The shot was slight quarter to, and the Drury's just let their disappointment and dissatisfaction over that shot selection just level the fellow who got the deer. These were a couple of decent fellows from what I know, and they wore that quite a bit. But they aligned themselves, and reflected, and maybe internalized that shift in thinking too.

Now ethics is a dirty word and there's folks arguing in support of some pretty unreasonable stuff.

On the whole, how does our hunting culture rate? How do we build a better culture? What does that mean?

It's never been perfect, but questions like this did't always set off a bomb.
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The lyrics to rage against the machine “sleep now in the fire” remind me of some of our hunting culture… Im going to take what I want, have fun, and you will pay the price for it. I’m pretty sure most fellas in Europe operate like trained assassins in the woods with their rifles, we don’t mind a lot more collateral damage, good for the Drurys, we can still consider ourselves part of a cohesive clan while meanwhile dishing out some self criticism and debate.
 
I'm in my rookie season but I'd have to say culture has plenty of room to improve... I mean isn't one of the top rules to have a positive i.d. on your target before you shoot? Then we let this dipstick influence hunting? Screenshot_20221205_120715_DuckDuckGo.jpg
Pretty sure we should run this guy out of the spotlight. I'm an idiot but I'm not as bad as that donkey!
 
Horn said:
I'm in my rookie season but I'd have to say culture has plenty of room to improve... I mean isn't one of the top rules to have a positive i.d. on your target before you shoot? Then we let this dipstick influence hunting? View attachment 77471
Pretty sure we should run this guy out of the spotlight. I'm an idiot but I'm not as bad as that donkey!
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I actually like Zach and find him to be generally thoughtful and really a decent person by all accounts. I don't love the decision making there, and especially the message to a public audience of folks from all walks. At that time THP had just partnered with Ranch Fairy and from what I observe, the heavy arrow thing seemed to give some of them an air of invincibility. There were some ups and downs as a result and I think they were learning from that. But I cannot say for sure where they stand. I stopped watching their program after that season.
 
SaddleUpPartner! said:
Weird part is that I didn’t even hit guts. Arrow was straight blood from tip to knock. Done over again with a different set up, I put it a touch more forward. I might have gotten away with a more forward shot with my current set up, I just had it back a touch. I think I one lunged him. I did find some drops of blood with small bubbles but it was very minimal.
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Based on the pic you posted with the red dot, I am going to disagree with your assessment. On that angle, the arrow almost certainly would have hit stomach and exited through liver, thus cleaning the shaft of stomach contents and leaving it blood soaked. If the deer dropped a little then your entrance would have been higher than you indicated as your point of aim. The results are a plugged exit hole and not always a lot of blood from the higher than midline entrance. There is reason some folks preach shooting for your exit. My opinion, based on the pic posted, you could have aimed 4-5" left and most likely not had heavy bone impact. Through the shoulder blade yes but not bone heavy enough to be a problem. Having shot lots of dozens of deer through shoulder blades with spitfires, I would almost guarantee the head was not the problem.

Again just my opinion but that angle is one of the tougher ones to make a good shot. More quartered too and you can slip it in front of the shoulder or a bit more broadside and you dont have to hug the big shoulder joint as much to have a good exit.
 
GrizzlyStik advocated for heavy high FOC arrows because you if it comes in your circle it's dead, you don't have to wait for that perfect shot. Also that they could shoot through stuff ( grass, debris whatever) with said arrows. That's in a podcast that was posted over in the fairy dust thread.
 
Horn said:
I'm in my rookie season but I'd have to say culture has plenty of room to improve... I mean isn't one of the top rules to have a positive i.d. on your target before you shoot? Then we let this dipstick influence hunting? View attachment 77471
Pretty sure we should run this guy out of the spotlight. I'm an idiot but I'm not as bad as that donkey!
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sometimes it's best to stay quiet.
 
BTaylor said:
Based on the pic you posted with the red dot, I am going to disagree with your assessment. On that angle, the arrow almost certainly would have hit stomach and exited through liver, thus cleaning the shaft of stomach contents and leaving it blood soaked. If the deer dropped a little then your entrance would have been higher than you indicated as your point of aim. The results are a plugged exit hole and not always a lot of blood from the higher than midline entrance. There is reason some folks preach shooting for your exit. My opinion, based on the pic posted, you could have aimed 4-5" left and most likely not had heavy bone impact. Through the shoulder blade yes but not bone heavy enough to be a problem. Having shot lots of dozens of deer through shoulder blades with spitfires, I would almost guarantee the head was not the problem.

Again just my opinion but that angle is one of the tougher ones to make a good shot. More quartered too and you can slip it in front of the shoulder or a bit more broadside and you dont have to hug the big shoulder joint as much to have a good exit.
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Interesting theory. I didn’t find any stomach matter on the arrow at all so I’m not sure if that happened or not. The pic is very approx to my situation and my dot could be off a tad. I wish I took video of the actual shot but I don’t have all that cool camera stuff. Judging by the blood and the arrow, I still think one lung and possible liver. I also hunt pretty high up.
 
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This arrow excited through liver. At recovery there was a larger than softball of gut protruding the exit hole. Deer was almost perfectly broadside but stepped forward I think as the shot broke. Impact sounded good but the way the deer left made me question things. Gave her a couple hours. She was in a bedded position with legs tucked where I found her. Travelled 200+ yards mostly downhill.


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