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Mad Rock Safeguard Backup?

J

justlooking

Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2019
Messages
42
I’m interested in one sticking and rappelling down but I’m pretty unfamiliar with both. Is there any kind of backup you can use in conjunction with the mad rock safeguard? I’ve read some comments where guys were saying you shouldn’t rely on a mechanical device only, is that true?
 
justlooking said:
I’m interested in one sticking and rappelling down but I’m pretty unfamiliar with both. Is there any kind of backup you can use in conjunction with the mad rock safeguard? I’ve read some comments where guys were saying you shouldn’t rely on a mechanical device only, is that true?
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I don’t back it up until I reach hunting height. However, when I do, I’ll tie an overhand below the device and clip it into my bridges carabiner. Then I could only fall to the point where I’m clipped in. Just a few inches. I tie it loose enough for me to adjust a bit throughout the sit. You could conceivably tie one long enough to allow for some adjustments on the climd as well but it would be far from convenient.


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Researching this as well, so insert grain of salt here: You can always tie a prussik above the safeguard as a backup when at hunting height or use one below as an auto block during rappel similar to if you were just rappelling with an ATC.
 
thedutchtouch said:
Researching this as well, so insert grain of salt here: You can always tie a prussik above the safeguard as a backup when at hunting height or use one below as an auto block during rappel similar to if you were just rappelling with an ATC.
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If you read their handbook, it specifically says not to do that.


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trailblazer75 said:
If you read their handbook, it specifically says not to do that.


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The auto block below? Because there's a risk of it getting jammed up in it and causing a fall to the ground? True, maybe don't do this then. The prussik above I don't see how that would be an issue. Hey I said I was in research phase myself!
 
thedutchtouch said:
The auto block below? Because there's a risk of it getting jammed up in it and causing a fall to the ground? True, maybe don't do this then. The prussik above I don't see how that would be an issue. Hey I said I was in research phase myself!
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Or above it. If you’re tending a friction hitch above the belay device, the device itself isn’t doing its job. Plus, even if it let slip, the device is designed to be a descent device where your brake hand is key. You could hold the pull handle wide open and still stop yourself with your brake hand. Which is both correct mechanically and technically.
 
Even though they say not to use a it I would use a ATC below the safeguard which I do one hand is operating my madrock and the other hand controlling the ATC which is clip to my line man loop spaced about 2 .5 ft apart so I never worry about it jamming or getting caught. That’s what I do but hey to each their own
 
In the rock climbing world is the safeguard only used as a belay device? Or do people rappel with them too? Just curious.
 
justlooking said:
In the rock climbing world is the safeguard only used as a belay device? Or do people rappel with them too? Just curious.
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To my knowledge, the lifeguard was designed for belay and the safeguard was then produced after that when it became evident that there was a demand for the device to be made without the spring.


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trailblazer75 said:
To my knowledge, the lifeguard was designed for belay and the safeguard was then produced after that when it became evident that there was a demand for the device to be made without the spring.


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Does that mean it was designed for rappelling then?
 
The safeguard was designed to be a rappel device, which includes lowering a climber. The lowering part is pretty much just a switched around rappel.

I’m the one who brought up the warning from Mad Rock originally. I’ll see if I still have the picture of the warning. IF not, search my threads and you can find it.

If you read the paperwork carefully from Mad Rock, the warning against any sort of friction knot below the safeguard is that it can cause a shock on the Safeguard. As a belay device it is actually designed to allow a slight amount of slipping when a climber falls and the device grabs. This very minimal slipping as the device grabs the rope helps to cushion the device and the climber a bit. You would be amazed the amount of force a falling climber can generate. If you have a friction hitch or other device below the safeguard then you get a more sudden jolt on the device which could damage the device.

With any sort of mechanical belay/rappel device, there is a huge learning curve to trust the device. It will hold you, as long as you don’t panic and grab it wrong. That takes familiarity and practice. The Safeguard is a great device that works beautifully. It will easily hold you, especially in the applications we use it for.
 
Technically it’s abseiling if only one rope, rappel if two. Rappel means remove in French, which two ropes, or one doubled over makes possible.
A hitch above the device could be compressed to not add friction while descending, but be a back up if the device, or climber malfunctions.
 
It seems that lots of these devices are classified as “belay” whereas a Petzl Rig, or something similar, is the only device fully rated for something like one sticking or rappelling down and stopping to get sticks etc. with no backup. I’m not saying this is absolutely true, but rather that it seems that way. Would anyone more experienced (and knowledgeable) than me say this is accurate or not?
 
CharlieTN said:
The safeguard was designed to be a rappel device, which includes lowering a climber. The lowering part is pretty much just a switched around rappel.

I’m the one who brought up the warning from Mad Rock originally. I’ll see if I still have the picture of the warning. IF not, search my threads and you can find it.

If you read the paperwork carefully from Mad Rock, the warning against any sort of friction knot below the safeguard is that it can cause a shock on the Safeguard. As a belay device it is actually designed to allow a slight amount of slipping when a climber falls and the device grabs. This very minimal slipping as the device grabs the rope helps to cushion the device and the climber a bit. You would be amazed the amount of force a falling climber can generate. If you have a friction hitch or other device below the safeguard then you get a more sudden jolt on the device which could damage the device.

With any sort of mechanical belay/rappel device, there is a huge learning curve to trust the device. It will hold you, as long as you don’t panic and grab it wrong. That takes familiarity and practice. The Safeguard is a great device that works beautifully. It will easily hold you, especially in the applications we use it for.
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Uneducated question, but I'm wondering if the design is to have less unnecessary shock on the climber's body, rather than the device. Which would mean it's still safe from a fall aspect as in wouldn't cause the device to fail, but catches you/the other climber with a potentially more injurious sudden catch rather than a catch with some give?
 
The thing that worries me is the speed at which people are getting into some of these techniques with almost no experience in at all. For example, putting this video out there with the title it has implies that everything is just fine when using out of spec rope and little consideration of backups at all.

 
Has anyone tried anything like the CT sparrow 200R for rappelling? Since the safeguard isn’t available I’m looking at this. Seems reasonably priced and designed for this type of climb and descent!


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JRobBowers said:
Has anyone tried anything like the CT sparrow 200R for rappelling? Since the safeguard isn’t available I’m looking at this. Seems reasonably priced and designed for this type of climb and descent!


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I haven’t but it appears akin to the Petzl Rig. The drawbacks here would be extra weight and bulk, and these devices are usually only rated for larger ropes than many of us use. Having said that, it’s the sort of device that is fully rated for what lots of use do.
 
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