Madrock Scare

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Oh I agree 100%. I only mentioned the lifeguard because it’s design makes it even more likely to slip (because it’s made to feed rope through for climbing).

But I still believe the issue in this case is the routing.


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I think it is possible the stiffer HTP being straight up could contribute to it as well but so many of us use this exact same set up. I use it with the gri gri + and I use 10mm htp or 10mm Bluewater protac both are very stiff and rigid and neither have slipped on me while hands free. I know they aren’t designed to have the rope straight up out of the feed side but it’s not like he’s force feeding the rope in either so it should still grab of it is functioning properly.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Does he have a video?


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[Loopwing]

I will see if I can get a video of this later today(at ground level of course) I have learned I can cause this slipping intentionally by holding the break side line straight up.

The HTP STERLING almost seems too stiff it almost stands straight up and I’m wondering if this is the cause.


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Yeah, that is how I adjust my tether length in the saddle. If you hold all pieces "parallel" you can move the line through freely. If the device is not loaded, then it will not load. In respect if a friction hitch is not loaded it will also slip.

 

[trailblazer75]

I think it is possible the stiffer HTP being straight up could contribute to it as well but so many of us use this exact same set up. I use it with the gri gri + and I use 10mm htp or 10mm Bluewater protac both are very stiff and rigid and neither have slipped on me while hands free. I know they aren’t designed to have the rope straight up out of the feed side but it’s not like he’s force feeding the rope in either so it should still grab of it is functioning properly.

An easy way to rule out the routing being the issue is to simply set it up without the change of direction carabiner and see what happens.


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[bpz89]

Very cool, nice video! Thank you.

So, he ASCENDS with a ROPEMAN? and DESCENDS with the 8?

How is that ascending with the ROPEMAN?


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[bpz89]

An easy way to rule out the routing being the issue is to simply set it up without the change of direction carabiner and see what happens.


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Yes sir I will try this after Church.


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[bpz89]

Instead of an autoblock, tie a long eye to eye 7mm or even 8mm cord. Then tie a schwabisch or a VT above your device and below your hand ascender. With no weight on it, your mechanical can advance the hitch or you can add a prusik tender to the carabiner on the hand ascender you are using for a redirect pulley. That way every time you advance your hand ascender you advance your friction hitch. It won’t be in the way too badly and if your device does slip, it’ll only slip until the hitch gets friction

Any pictures or diagrams of this sent up?


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[Loopwing]

And the ropeman debate begins..........

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I like the way this sounds. Trying to picture it lol


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I’ll set up my rig and try to demonstrate it for you. It’s actually really easy to do. But if the safeguard doesn’t give you confidence, either trade out to a different belay device or try a ropeman for ascending and an 8 to descend. There are also alternate rope techniques. I actually prefer Ddrt (love love love the Blake’s hitch on an open system) and JRB’s rope system seems to be catching on for a few guys on here. No climbing system is perfect (do not let anyone tell you theirs is best.) SRT is great except sometimes it’s tough to get your canopy anchor where you want it. Sometimes you have to use redirects which if you don’t know what you’re doing can be dangerous. But SRT is easiest way to climb (physically) and it can be lighter than Ddrt because you only carry half the rope and you use a smaller diameter line. Ddrt is the cheapest climbing method and you don’t need any hardware at all except one carabiner to hook in. But it requires 75 to 80’ of 24 strand climbing line at least 11mm in diameter (larger diameter is easier to firmly grip and handle). It also requires trees with a good crotch. I use Ddrt while I hunt oaks, hickories, mangroves, maples, and cypresses. I use SRT whenever I hunt palm trees (I try not too because of palm splinters) and pine trees. Pine trees leave sap all over your rope if you Ddrt them so. So there are positives and negatives to each set up.
Back to your post, I’ll set up today and post a video of a self tending friction back up on SRT similar to your set up

 

[bpz89]

I’ll set up my rig and try to demonstrate it for you. It’s actually really easy to do. But if the safeguard doesn’t give you confidence, either trade out to a different belay device or try a ropeman for ascending and an 8 to descend. There are also alternate rope techniques. I actually prefer Ddrt (love love love the Blake’s hitch on an open system) and JRB’s rope system seems to be catching on for a few guys on here. No climbing system is perfect (do not let anyone tell you theirs is best.) SRT is great except sometimes it’s tough to get your canopy anchor where you want it. Sometimes you have to use redirects which if you don’t know what you’re doing can be dangerous. But SRT is easiest way to climb (physically) and it can be lighter than Ddrt because you only carry half the rope and you use a smaller diameter line. Ddrt is the cheapest climbing method and you don’t need any hardware at all except one carabiner to hook in. But it requires 75 to 80’ of 24 strand climbing line at least 11mm in diameter (larger diameter is easier to firmly grip and handle). It also requires trees with a good crotch. I use Ddrt while I hunt oaks, hickories, mangroves, maples, and cypresses. I use SRT whenever I hunt palm trees (I try not too because of palm splinters) and pine trees. Pine trees leave sap all over your rope if you Ddrt them so. So there are positives and negatives to each set up.
Back to your post, I’ll set up today and post a video of a self tending friction back up on SRT similar to your set up

Sounds great thanks !


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[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Very cool, nice video! Thank you.

So, he ASCENDS with a ROPEMAN? and DESCENDS with the 8?

How is that ascending with the ROPEMAN?


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I believe phatkaw uses climbing spikes to get up then uses an 8 and rope to rappel down. This video isn’t about saddle hunting it’s only about a ropeman ascending but A ropeman is an ascender, that’s what it was made to do, so it would be very easy and in essence your set up would be the same.

 

[bpz89]

I believe phatkaw uses climbing spikes to get up then uses an 8 and rope to rappel down. This video isn’t about saddle hunting it’s only about a ropeman ascending but A ropeman is an ascender, that’s what it was made to do, so it would be very easy and in essence your set up would be the same.

Very interesting. Seems that they actually advertise this as being a “hands free” device.


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[bpz89]

And the ropeman debate begins..........

What is the debate?


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[DeerLaughAtMe]

I think you have a bad rope. I’ve used Oplux, CIV, and canyon elite using the exact same SRT setup with no issues whatsoever. It seems to me there might be something wrong with the core or the cover is slipping.


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[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Very interesting. Seems that they actually advertise this as being a “hands free” device.


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That is because the ascender only works in on direction (up) so there is no back feeding gear or friction plate.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

And the ropeman debate begins..........

Any ascender works. I don’t care what one someone uses. Kong, wild country, SMC, CT…. Who cares. They are all made to go up the rope. An 8 or an ATC made to go down it. Belay devices aren’t made to do what we are doing with them but they work… if you got big money you can buy actual SRT devices like zig zags, the ISC rope rescue devices and other multidirectional rope grabs. But they cost $$$ hundreds of dollars. They are actually made for what we do but many do not have a panic assist feature so I wouldn’t leave the ground without knowing I was completely confident in technique. I see no debate on using an ascender to ascend. As long as you are using rope within spec.

 

[Loopwing]

It all goes back to do what makes you feel safe and better. I have seen some guys on here with a back up to a back up to a back up to a back up. They have more rope in the tree than branches on the tree.
I am comfortable climbing solely on a madrock safeguard (no auto lock, read the directions), I am also getting to the point I prefer a kong/ropeman to climb and hunt and then switching to a figure 8 to come down (smoother ride). Do what makes you feel safe, any mechanical device or friction know can fail if not properly dressed and loaded. Be safe and when a problem arises address it and make the change.

 

[Marmuzz]

I think you have a bad rope. I’ve used Oplux, CIV, and canyon elite using the exact same SRT setup with no issues whatsoever. It seems to me there might be something wrong with the core or the cover is slipping.

On that thought @bpz89 any chance you can connect with other saddle hunters locally and test another proper spec rope to see if it’s the device or the rope?

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Ok bp…. This video is not a substitute for certified training for rope climbing or rescue techniques. It is for “entertainment” purposes only lol…. Also the quality sucks lol I don’t use a safe guard and I do not bother with foot loops unless the tree has a ridiculous lean preventing me from placing my feet on the tree….
Seriously though two things, one there is a lot of car noise in the back ground and two: when you descend (rappel) you can add a little tension with your braking hand and then use two fingers to ease the tension while you come down (like I do) so that the friction hitch is already biting or you can come down the length of your hitch, stop pull the hitch down to your belay, tighten it again, then pull the brake again…. Just repeat the process (this is a slow way to do it but very safe). My two finger release/ brake palm tension method is much faster but your hitch cord will wear out a little quicker because you are sliding it down while it is slightly under friction.

 

[bpz89]

Ok bp…. This video is not a substitute for certified training for rope climbing or rescue techniques. It is for “entertainment” purposes only lol…. Also the quality sucks lol I don’t use a safe guard and I do not bother with foot loops unless the tree has a ridiculous lean preventing me from placing my feet on the tree….
Seriously though two things, one there is a lot of car noise in the back ground and two: when you descend (rappel) you can add a little tension with your braking hand and then use two fingers to ease the tension while you come down (like I do) so that the friction hitch is already biting or you can come down the length of your hitch, stop pull the hitch down to your belay, tighten it again, then pull the brake again…. Just repeat the process (this is a slow way to do it but very safe). My two finger release/ brake palm tension method is much faster but your hitch cord will wear out a little quicker because you are sliding it down while it is slightly under friction.

Very good video. Thanks very much. Looks like I need to figure out where to get me some hitch cord