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Making "Is it warm?" More Objective

Nutterbuster

Nutterbuster

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2017
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Where the skys are so blue!
So my 8 year old Hell's Canyon puffy jacket is no longer quite so puffy (I wash the crap out of my clothes and hunt a lot). It's led me to look into hunting clothing for the past week or so. I went so far as to drive to the local Sitka retailer and remind myself why I've never bought a set, and finally just picked up a L and XL fleece quarter zip. Hopefully I'm good-to-go for the 22 degree cold front we've got incoming this weekend...

But in the process I've been reminded of something that's bugged me off-and-on for a while. Reading clothing reviews, everybody is really, really, REALLY terrible about specifying under what conditions their clothes are performing. "Cold," "late season," "windy," etc...all mean VERY different things to different people. Example...

If I tell you some medium-weight polypro base layers, a fleece or two for a mid layer, and a windbreaker/rainjacket get me through, "the coldest days of late season," that may leave a lot of you shaking your head. But if I tell you it gets me through a sunny day in the with lows in the 20s and highs in the 40s with a 5-10mph wind...that's different. It's the Gulf Coast, not Vermont or northern Wisconsin.

Personal comfort is perhaps intrinsically subjective, but we figured out how to accurately measure weather conditions pretty precisely a long time ago. Temp, wind speed, cloud cover, and humidity is all free information that most of us look at regularly anyway. Duration of the sit, activity level, and whether or not you avoided sweating help a little too. Maybe let us know if you keep the house set at 68 or 74 too...I'm a 68er only because my wife won't let me park it at 60.
 
Nutterbuster said:
So my 8 year old Hell's Canyon puffy jacket is no longer quite so puffy (I wash the crap out of my clothes and hunt a lot). It's led me to look into hunting clothing for the past week or so. I went so far as to drive to the local Sitka retailer and remind myself why I've never bought a set, and finally just picked up a L and XL fleece quarter zip. Hopefully I'm good-to-go for the 22 degree cold front we've got incoming this weekend...

But in the process I've been reminded of something that's bugged me off-and-on for a while. Reading clothing reviews, everybody is really, really, REALLY terrible about specifying under what conditions their clothes are performing. "Cold," "late season," "windy," etc...all mean VERY different things to different people. Example...

If I tell you some medium-weight polypro base layers, a fleece or two for a mid layer, and a windbreaker/rainjacket get me through, "the coldest days of late season," that may leave a lot of you shaking your head. But if I tell you it gets me through a sunny day in the with lows in the 20s and highs in the 40s with a 5-10mph wind...that's different. It's the Gulf Coast, not Vermont or northern Wisconsin.

Personal comfort is perhaps intrinsically subjective, but we figured out how to accurately measure weather conditions pretty precisely a long time ago. Temp, wind speed, cloud cover, and humidity is all free information that most of us look at regularly anyway. Duration of the sit, activity level, and whether or not you avoided sweating help a little too. Maybe let us know if you keep the house set at 68 or 74 too...I'm a 68er only because my wife won't let me park it at 60.
Click to expand...

My Sitka gets me through the cold windy late season as well as sunny days with lows in the 20s and highs in the 40s with a 5-10mph wind. I wear Sitka around the house, set to 60, even in the summer. You should try Sitka.
 
It drives me nuts when manufacturers say mid season, late season, etc. Give me a temperature range or intended use case (December hunting in the Rockies) which is way more helpful. When folks ask about gear I always try and remember to add details like time of year, temp, conditions and where I hunt. November in Northern Virginia can see temps as low as 25 and as high as 70 so “mid season” or “rut” is almost meaningless. Case in point I bought and sold a set of Under Armour windproof rut bibs and jacket. They were billed as mid season rut. They were absolutely windproof but with their high loft fleece and Berber inside combined with wind barrier I wore just the bibs in 40 degree weather and felt like I was in a sous vide I was so hot. I had to unzip them completely negating the scent control aspect. Maybe I run a bit hot but man. Too warm for me.
Scentlok is guilty of ambiguous wording with their products, example is the morphic 3in1 suit. The jacket is just a weatherproof top with a bit of fleece with a zip in fleece vest they bill as late season. I’ve owned that suit and it works fine for Virginia around rut but there’s no way in the world someone in the UP (upper Michigan) or Maine is gonna be able to wear that jacket as advertised.
 
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Exhumis said:
It drives me nuts when manufacturers say mid season, late season, etc. Give me a temperature range or intended use case (December hunting in the Rockies) which is way more helpful.
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Warm, warmer, warmest. lol.

They leave it to the forums to dial it in. "cold" "late season" "windy", etc.
 
Exhumis said:
It drives me nuts when manufacturers say mid season, late season, etc. Give me a temperature range or intended use case (December hunting in the Rockies) which is way more helpful.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's frustrating when they try to say it's because different people have different cold tolerances. We do, but do we really? Sleeping bag manufacturers give temp ratings.

I generally assume that early, mid, and late apply to the same places with October lulls...not Abalammer.
 
Nutterbuster said:
So my 8 year old Hell's Canyon puffy jacket is no longer quite so puffy (I wash the crap out of my clothes and hunt a lot). It's led me to look into hunting clothing for the past week or so. I went so far as to drive to the local Sitka retailer and remind myself why I've never bought a set, and finally just picked up a L and XL fleece quarter zip. Hopefully I'm good-to-go for the 22 degree cold front we've got incoming this weekend...

But in the process I've been reminded of something that's bugged me off-and-on for a while. Reading clothing reviews, everybody is really, really, REALLY terrible about specifying under what conditions their clothes are performing. "Cold," "late season," "windy," etc...all mean VERY different things to different people. Example...

If I tell you some medium-weight polypro base layers, a fleece or two for a mid layer, and a windbreaker/rainjacket get me through, "the coldest days of late season," that may leave a lot of you shaking your head. But if I tell you it gets me through a sunny day in the with lows in the 20s and highs in the 40s with a 5-10mph wind...that's different. It's the Gulf Coast, not Vermont or northern Wisconsin.

Personal comfort is perhaps intrinsically subjective, but we figured out how to accurately measure weather conditions pretty precisely a long time ago. Temp, wind speed, cloud cover, and humidity is all free information that most of us look at regularly anyway. Duration of the sit, activity level, and whether or not you avoided sweating help a little too. Maybe let us know if you keep the house set at 68 or 74 too...I'm a 68er only because my wife won't let me park it at 60.
Click to expand...

For some reason Nut wearing Sitka really,
really bothers me, please return and stay on brand… thanks

What’s next Amos in a Sitka life jacket? I can’t go down this dark path with you my friend
 
Maybe some more sciencey people could help standardize a test. Like: heat a plain old brick to 96 degrees in an oven, stick a temperature probe on it and lay it inside a jacket from various makers (or test sleeves vs body area, etc), put it in a freezer at a fixed temp setting and measure how long it takes for the brick to cool to 80 or something.

Would be neat to find a way to combine the test with blowing wind somehow. Might need an industrial size freezer and a big ole fan for that.

While it wouldn't be directly relevant to "how cold YOU feel in it", it'd be a standard measure for what retains heat well, for how long, vs how much it weighs, costs, compresses in a stuff sack, etc.

Would be good fodder for a Youtube channel.
 
So on the insulation side there is a scientific measure for relative warmth when comparing insulation types called the Clo value. The Clo value allows you to compare two different types of insulation at determine which is the more insulating of the two - for example is the 100 gram 650 fill power down jacket warmer than the 120 gram primaloft silver fill?

The attached screenshot is from a diy sportsman video and shows the Clo value of several of the more popular insulation fills
 

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Nutterbuster said:
Yeah, it's frustrating when they try to say it's because different people have different cold tolerances. We do, but do we really? Sleeping bag manufacturers give temp ratings.”
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Exactly. I’m just thinking sleeping bag ratings are often listed for “survival” but not comfort necessarily, i.e. using a 20° rated bag with sufficient shelter in 20° will keep you alive, but for a warm night’s sleep, using a 0° rated bag is probably better. Why would it be so hard to do something similar with clothing if it’s designed for the stand hunter in mind? If anything, you’re going to move more in a stand/saddle than in a sleeping bag. Even if someone feels like they are warmer or colder wearing a select rating, at least you have a more definitive rating from which to adjust rather than some ambiguous season phrasing.
 
I'm not the most well traveled but in my travels I notice that where u are on the map makes a difference. In Colorado it was 17 degrees and I was not cold, not wearing any real cold weather clothes and my last trip to NYC in winter u see the locals and they are all dressed really heavy clothes/eskimo and the guy I work with and I were some of the most underdressed people we saw. Tennessee 35 degrees feels different and fla 35
 
Weldabeast said:
I'm not the most well traveled but in my travels I notice that where u are on the map makes a difference. In Colorado it was 17 degrees and I was not cold, not wearing any real cold weather clothes and my last trip to NYC in winter u see the locals and they are all dressed really heavy clothes/eskimo and the guy I work with and I were some of the most underdressed people we saw. Tennessee 35 degrees feels different and fla 35
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Humidity plays a big role in how a certain temp feels. I had some clients from Minnesota that were freezing in MD one week when the temps were in the low twenty's. They said our 20 felt colder than their 20.
 
Weldabeast said:
I'm not the most well traveled but in my travels I notice that where u are on the map makes a difference. In Colorado it was 17 degrees and I was not cold, not wearing any real cold weather clothes and my last trip to NYC in winter u see the locals and they are all dressed really heavy clothes/eskimo and the guy I work with and I were some of the most underdressed people we saw. Tennessee 35 degrees feels different and fla 35
Click to expand...
There is definitely differences in cold comparatively. A windy humid cool can feel colder than a dry freeze in some areas. I always noticed that when we would go to the mountains in western NC. It would be 35 degrees and a light hoodie felt great. Then for some reason in Fl, the temp can be 40 degrees, I walk outside and because of wind and humidity, the wind shield and roof of my truck is completely iced over and a thick carhartt jacket is barely warm enough.
Back to nutterbuster’s original post… for 90% of my season we are in light thin breathable polyester like tech stay dry type clothing (and will still be sweating) but on the rare occasions it does freeze or we go night time hog or coon hunting, I’ve found the cabellas instinct stuff to be very comfortable and warm. It’s not the cheapest or most amazing camo patterns but it definitely kept my warm blooded butt from freezing
 
GCTerpfan said:
Humidity plays a big role in how a certain temp feels. I had some clients from Minnesota that were freezing in MD one week when the temps were in the low twenty's. They said our 20 felt colder than their 20.
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110% agree, (because that's the humidity level on an average Maryland summer day). That and wind. Wind blows.
 
Vtbow said:
Well...it's -15 here right now. Thats cold, it feels cold, everyone thinks it's cold. The fire in my woodstove is hot, everyone thinks it's hot. -15 cold. Fire hot. Doesn't seem subjective :cool:
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Yep, and I'll take fewer cold humid days over more bitter cold less humid days. Which is why I'm going even farther south after all of my kids move out.
 
I'm curious about those gold dot interiors advertised on Columbia products. Legit tech leap? Gimmick? Coming to hunting apparel soon?
 
Nutterbuster said:
So my 8 year old Hell's Canyon puffy jacket is no longer quite so puffy (I wash the crap out of my clothes and hunt a lot). It's led me to look into hunting clothing for the past week or so. I went so far as to drive to the local Sitka retailer and remind myself why I've never bought a set, and finally just picked up a L and XL fleece quarter zip. Hopefully I'm good-to-go for the 22 degree cold front we've got incoming this weekend...

But in the process I've been reminded of something that's bugged me off-and-on for a while. Reading clothing reviews, everybody is really, really, REALLY terrible about specifying under what conditions their clothes are performing. "Cold," "late season," "windy," etc...all mean VERY different things to different people. Example...

If I tell you some medium-weight polypro base layers, a fleece or two for a mid layer, and a windbreaker/rainjacket get me through, "the coldest days of late season," that may leave a lot of you shaking your head. But if I tell you it gets me through a sunny day in the with lows in the 20s and highs in the 40s with a 5-10mph wind...that's different. It's the Gulf Coast, not Vermont or northern Wisconsin.

Personal comfort is perhaps intrinsically subjective, but we figured out how to accurately measure weather conditions pretty precisely a long time ago. Temp, wind speed, cloud cover, and humidity is all free information that most of us look at regularly anyway. Duration of the sit, activity level, and whether or not you avoided sweating help a little too. Maybe let us know if you keep the house set at 68 or 74 too...I'm a 68er only because my wife won't let me park it at 60.
Click to expand...
It’s that friggin humidity that makes the difference…bone chilling cold
 
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