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Mature Buck Behavior Data (poking the Nutter)

I do believe nutter is also stacking the odds in his favor by hunting areas where are they are bigger bucks. Not necessarily older bucks right? Big buck doesn't have to be old.. The article the OP posted said he was a small 5.5yr old.. No one is going to pass a 180" 3.5yr old??? Or maybe they would. If you do this article doesn't apply to you.
 
You guys really going to trust deer data, or our country, from a state that is not big enough to be a county in most? Nevermind, carry on!
 
You guys really going to trust deer data, or our country, from a state that is not big enough to be a county in most? Nevermind, carry on!
Huh?
You guys really going to trust deer data, or our country, from a state that is not big enough to be a county in most? Nevermind, carry on!
I'm failing to understand why the size of the state or county would matter. They're animals with legs that don't know boundaries... Their home range is their home range.
 
They were all captured and tagged for the test…… so they must not be that smart.
Well they're deer, or as nutterbuster would say "smooth brained prey animals" so yeah they're not that smart. But it's worth noting that they're capturing/tagging them at night most of the time.
 
No such thing. All deer move during the day…..you just don’t see them moving around in the open.
Even the big buck killer Infalt says mature deer don't move very far from their beds before dark. If they did then why are all the guys on here trying to set up so close to bedding?
 
Even the big buck killer Infalt says mature deer don't move very far from their beds before dark. If they did then why are all the guys on here trying to set up so close to bedding?


You said it yourself.....they don't move very far. Different than not moving at all.
 
We are also talking about pressured deer. In a heavily pressured area I would be willing to bet that big buck isn't going very far if at all after the pressure starts as he was before he felt it. The does and small bucks on the other hand are still getting to the food source before dark in a lot of cases.
 
My experience in Alabama is that deer are predominately nocturnal, regardless of age or pressure. The vast majority of trail camera pics at our lease are black and white 365 days a year.

Young deer are more mobile, I believe, due to the fact that they have to compete for resources more and the fact that they cannot usually stay in their birth range. Young bucks especially bounce around once their hormones kick in. Older animals get more sedentary as they gain social status and find their "groove" and place in the hierarchy. Not necessarily because they "learn" what happens during hunting season.

I think this video pretty aptly makes my point:


Hard hunting, but a long way from "playing chess." Just leveraging an essential understanding of core deer behavior and putting in the time in the right area. Plenty of opportunities to kill "lesser deer" along the way.
 
It's not complicated. It's not about being smart. It's about being conditioned. Hunt in an area known for outlawing, and deer behavior is vastly different from an area with no hunting at all. Lots of factors go into conditioning. And, age is just one.
 
Kill all those deer and see if other deer are "smart" enough to move into the vacuum left behind.

Is you argument that all of the swamps in this study were so full 5.5+ yr old deer that there was no room left for 4.5 yr old and younger deer? There was a clear difference in behavior between the two age classes of deer. I don't think you can write that off as "mature bucks get to choose the best habitat because they are bigger"

I also don't understand why "deer learning/changing behavior as they age" and "you can increase your odds by hunting in areas with more mature deer" are mutually exclusive?

We have evidence that all animals from mice to elephants can learn. Ever been to a circus? And I think it's safe to say some animals, even within the same species, can learn quicker than others. The definition of intelligence is "the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills". So wouldn't a deer that "learns" to avoid hunters/pressured areas quicker then it's peers be more intelligent than it's peers? And wouldn't a deer that learns quicker be more likely to live longer?

This doesn't exclude that the best way to significantly increase your odds is to simply to hunt in an area with more mature deer.

I'm struggling to follow your argument, the goal posts seem to keep moving. So let me ask a simple question. Do you think that deer have the ability to learn to avoid hunters through negative experiences/interactions with said hunters?
 
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I'm struggling to follow your argument, the goal posts seem to keep moving. So let me ask a simple question. Do you think that deer have the ability to learn to avoid hunters through negative experiences/interactions with said hunters?
Fair enough. I'm trying to change the way people do a thing without thinking and shades of grey don't seem to be effective. So I'm going pretty hard the other direction to break the gravitational pull.

Deer can learn. But I think we weight that thing WAY more heavily than we should. Intelligence is so heavily weighted for us that we have a hard time fathoming it doesn't matter to other lifeforms. But it doesn't. Intelligence matters very little outside of our little scope of experience. It mattered much less to humans 10,000 years ago than it does not. Shoot, in some parts of the world it still doesn't matter nearly as much as it does for us here in this little microcosm we've built for ourselves. Get outside of the species and look at our nearest relatives (primates) and it matters MUCH less. Broaden your gaze to include mammals and it barely matters. To most fauna (fish, insects, reptiles, birds) it matters even less. It probably matters not at all to fungus, viruses, plants, microorganisms, etc.

Yes, deer can think. But I am arguing that you're wasting time as a hunter thinking about what deer are thinking or feeling or learning. For most (and I include myself) thinking of deer like you think of a plant is probably better. Plants grow under certain parameters, unburdened by higher consciousness. A plant with good genes, growing with adequate soil, moisture, and light conditions, WILL grow. If you don't want to go that far, look at deer like fish. Plankton grows, little fish eat plankton, and where there are little fish and proper water parameters there WILL be bigger fish to eat them.

For you and me living our lives as brains in vats interacting with other brains in vats, life is very different. Our wellbeing hinges in a huge way on being able to put ourselves in each others headspace and navigate each others mental constructs. Language, laws, social norms, spiritual beliefs, memories, speculations, etc... Intelligence matters immensely if you're intelligent and surrounded by intelligent beings. But our intelligence does NOT serve us well when it comes to hunting and a great many other things. We need just a drop of it to maximize our effectiveness. Too much hinders us. And for the prey...they need a drop of a drop.

Some people don't need the gospel I'm preaching. Some people really need it if they want to put points on the contest this year. They're seeing Jesus in their toast. And some people are telling those people, "Yes, that is in fact Jesus on your toast. Come with me and I'll show you angels in your spaghetti too."
 
I'm very confused. Who is trying to say young bucks are just as smart as older mature ones? This is crazy. You guys need to come to WV hills are watch these young bucks watch you walk to your stand and then wait months at a time to even come close to a mature buck. They are definitely more educated. Been there done that kinda thing with humans. Same as deer.
 
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