Mid Layer

[raisins]

So there may be sacrifices to be made on a multi-day hunt, but within the controllable aspects of day hunting, scent control should be managed. I typically wash my synthetics every 2 to 3 days of use depending on the activity level, also keep in mind any clean layers will manage moisture better than dirty ones anyway! A washing tip to keep any stuff fresh is to use Atsko Sport Wash in tap-cold water with a soak cycle and then dry as recommended. This wash cycle works for down, gortex, wool, etc. I haven't personally found a detergent that compares to Sport Wash for effectiveness...

I only wear synthetics. Cleanliness is important, of course, but the silver treated ones are great. I buy Redhead brand with 4Most inhibit. I can wear it multiple days and have zero or close to zero smell anywhere on the garment. I buy similar liner socks from Fox River.

 

[bowhunthard88]

Also, alpaca itches less than merino. Lower quality merino makes people with itchy skin slightly itchy. Folks sometimes say this is impossible, but it's not. If I recall, they actually treat the merino one step to fill in the itchy scales (which are smaller than on regular wool).

Correct, except I'm not familiar with the "fill" step/process. Also, the presence of lanolin in sheep's wool.

 

[raisins]

Correct, except I'm not familiar with the "fill" step/process. Also, the presence of lanolin in sheep's wool.

I know I've read it several places. Googled it now quickly and didn't find a reference. It could be especially important with the lower grade merino, which is probably the itchier type. Good thing about alpaca is I don't think you have to worry about any of that. Too bad someone hasn't come up with a alpaca/synthetic blend base layer (synthetic to help durability and to hold shape and maybe help with wicking). It would probably be $$$$$$$ though.

 

[sconnieVLP]

There is no one magic bullet, multiple goals need multiple solutions. The system as a whole, consisting of multiple pieces, is key. I personally will add layers at my destination, but I do not remove/exchange layers, and that includes boots/socks. My hat may be the exception lol.

Socks are the only layer I will swap out once I get to the tree. I got frostbite on my feet a few years ago and I have found that when wearing rubber boots (which I generally avoid unless I have to) swapping socks out is one of the key parts of keeping my feet warm. It’s not as bad when I’m wearing boots that breathe better, but even then I may swap them out depending on how hard the walk in was and how cold it’s supposed to get.

Light socks on the walk in, swap them with heavy socks for the sit and the worn ones go in a ziploc bag.

 

[elk yinzer]

I think the whole "wool insulates better when wet" is kinda crap. Just don't get wet, how about. Nobody but spear fisherman think getting wet while hunting is a reasonably sane idea. I blame bushcrafters for coming up with a falsehood like that. Bushcratfers are weird and easy to blame right.

I think the old timers said "wool insulates better when it [the air] is wet. As is cold, humid days aka absolute misery. Because it does.

 

[raisins]

I think the whole "wool insulates better when wet" is kinda crap. Just don't get wet, how about. Nobody but spear fisherman think getting wet while hunting is a reasonably sane idea. I blame bushcrafters for coming up with a falsehood like that. Bushcratfers are weird and easy to blame right.

I think the old timers said "wool insulates better when it [the air] is wet. As is cold, humid days aka absolute misery. Because it does.

Yep, also wool is heavy and bulky. I can see it for survival but not for my hunting. I carry goose down because it is the king of packability and warmth to weight, but it stinks when wet. So, I buy the treated down and carry it in in a dry compression sack. If it is raining, then goes on under a waterproof outer layer. It's never been a problem. If it ever fails (in that 1% scenario), then that day I'll just stop hunting and go home. It's worth the risk when it isn't life and death and the upside is so high. Now, I probably wouldn't pick all down stuff if me getting it wet might kill me or ruin a 1 week big money hunt.

 

[bowhunthard88]

I think the whole "wool insulates better when wet" is kinda crap. Just don't get wet, how about. Nobody but spear fisherman think getting wet while hunting is a reasonably sane idea. I blame bushcrafters for coming up with a falsehood like that. Bushcratfers are weird and easy to blame right.

I think the old timers said "wool insulates better when it [the air] is wet. As is cold, humid days aka absolute misery. Because it does.

Both agree and disagree lol. There was a point when wool was possibly the "best" option, and wool does insulate when wet (although wool is "heavy" and wet wool is heavier). I'm not going to let my wool get wet if I can help it, but there are factors such as humidity and sweat that could severely affect cotton, or similar, layers. My goal is always to stay dry, but manage the moisture that is unavoidable, in any situation! I guess a solid example could be that I choose to wear wool fingerless gloves while winter steelhead fishing lol.

 

[raisins]

Both agree and disagree lol. There was a point when wool was possibly the "best" option, and wool does insulate when wet (although wool is "heavy" and wet wool is heavier). I'm not going to let my wool get wet if I can help it, but there are factors such as humidity and sweat that could severely affect cotton, or similar, layers. My goal is always to stay dry, but manage the moisture that is unavoidable, in any situation! I guess a solid example could be that I choose to wear wool fingerless gloves while winter steelhead fishing lol.

Again, just going off memory, but I remember a video or such that laid it out like this:

Wet wool is a better insulator than wet cotton, poly, etc.....but wet wool is still not a good insulator (compared to dry) and it is miserable. If you find yourself in soaked wool while on a hunt, you'll probably leave and go back to camp or home....just like you would if you found yourself in soaked polyester.

 

[bowhunthard88]

Again, just going off memory, but I remember a video or such that laid it out like this:

Wet wool is a better insulator than wet cotton, poly, etc.....but wet wool is still not a good insulator (compared to dry) and it is miserable. If you find yourself in soaked wool while on a hunt, you'll probably leave and go back to camp or home....just like you would if you found yourself in soaked polyester.

#truth. There are a few principles that I follow while wearing wool, WHEN I do, which is less than I don't (barring socks): no direct contact with skin (except for blends or Brynje) and never as the sole insulation layer. For me wool is primarily used as part, or as [in total], of my base layer system; which almost always incorporates a skin contact layer and a fitted layer over top of that which work in conjunction to both move moisture away from the skin and benefit insulation/cooling efficiency.

I usually run a really thin poly or silk liner under my socks too though, and I do use the Hollow alpaca socks. I'm also experimenting with the Willowace socks currently too. I still haven't sprung for alpaca base/mid-layers.

 

[Jammintree]

Wool - is apparently a four letter word and a real trigger!

 

[hokiehunter373]

What temps are you looking for? I wear a merino base layer year round. Just vary the weight depending on temps. Sitka Stratus outerlayer when temps permit. When I need more, the Celsius Midi puffy is my midlayer. I LOVE IT. My dad has one as well and feels the same. So comfortable. Super warm. Lightweight and packable. It basically lives in my pack

 

[Gator]

I'll second Sport Wash. You guys have once again cost me $$s. Ordered some Badlands Shift to try.

Has anyone used the Cabelas Instinct puffy jacket?

Shift jacket just seems way too thin to be warm, maybe that PrimaLoft is really just magical. The Instict puffy is a combo of poly and goose down, definitely puffier than the Shift so need some cold weather to test them.

 

[Horn]

Shift jacket just seems way too thin to be warm, maybe that PrimaLoft is really just magical. The Instict puffy is a combo of poly and goose down, definitely puffier than the Shift so need some cold weather to test them.

I feel the same way. I'm mostly interested in the pants and I'm wondering how they're $200 pants... that's insane for a layer piece!

 

[Gator]

I feel the same way. I'm mostly interested in the pants and I'm wondering how they're $200 pants... that's insane for a layer piece!

I got the pants as well. The full zips could be good for removal, but I'm guessing putting them on will be a royal PITA. The waist is also draw string only which I'm not a fan of, I'd prefer elastic in addition. They are also very short (assuming on purpose since the point is being able to take them off without boot removal so they are meant to be above the boot).

 

[raisins]

I feel the same way. I'm mostly interested in the pants and I'm wondering how they're $200 pants... that's insane for a layer piece!

for that money, you can buy Kuiu high loft down pants with full zips

i put them on over top of my bibs and saddle....don't have to remove anything

 

[bowhunthard88]

Another warmer option: https://www.firstlite.com/products/...aQ9HtuuSMOXYEMKsn4ReYKoXKJ1pu0xxoCOt8QAvD_BwE

 

[Still Kicking]

I favor merino base layers and really like the unpronounceable first lite puffys for a mid layer. When it's really cold I have a shirt and pants from Ebay made of Alpaca that are the berries with a base layer under and Code of Silence for my outer. Alpaca socks with heated insoles and a merino beanie under my hood with a couple of hand warmers and I'm good for all day in Illinois anything.

 

[Horn]

for that money, you can buy Kuiu high loft down pants with full zips

i put them on over top of my bibs and saddle....don't have to remove anything

Are you talking about super down LT? Says windproof and a water resistant down fill. I'm curious about these. Currently trying puffy under rain gear, working pretty good so far but these may eliminate the need for a shell on plenty of hunts

 

[NimbleTimbo]

I favor merino base layers and really like the unpronounceable first lite puffys for a mid layer. When it's really cold I have a shirt and pants from Ebay made of Alpaca that are the berries with a base layer under and Code of Silence for my outer. Alpaca socks with heated insoles and a merino beanie under my hood with a couple of hand warmers and I'm good for all day in Illinois anything.

yeah it's a great layer, how do ya say it anyway?

 

[raisins]

Are you talking about super down LT? Says windproof and a water resistant down fill. I'm curious about these. Currently trying puffy under rain gear, working pretty good so far but these may eliminate the need for a shell on plenty of hunts

They have changed names

There’s one that is thinner and cheaper

I have the thicker one

I would not wear it in the rain

I also never walk in it because I don’t want thorns tearing up something so expensive and also it is too warm for that

The only time I wear it is when it would snow if there was any precip

I’ll walk in with 1 or 2 base layers of whatever thickness makes sense under bibs

Climb with saddle

In the tree, those Kuiu pants go over everything without removing boots or anything else

The only part of the saddle you can see is my bridge sticking out

This wouldn’t work with dump pouches and such on the saddle

For me, it works great but it’s like boot blankets for the legs

Sea to summit makes waterproof compression sacks of various size that work great to compress and carry down layers in a pack