My controversial view on tracking dogs

[swampdonkey]

Forget the dogs I’m going to call you then! Hope you don’t mind wearing a leash some states make it mandatory.

If you did your job and killed the deer i’d find it 100%.

The ONLY time i’ve lost deer in almost 4 decades is when i ran out of real estate and been denied access by a neighboring landowner to continue to track. Let that sink in, work on your woodsmanship.

 

[swampdonkey]

Quite a lot of offended saddle hunters overly reliant on others to do what they should be learning to do themselves, pretty sad.

 

[redsquirrel]

Quite a lot of offended saddle hunters overly reliant on others to do what they should be learning to do themselves, pretty sad.

I'm 100% with you on the importance of tracking skills but comments like this do nothing but stir the pot. Why don't you chill out.

 

[swampdonkey]

I'm 100% with you on the importance of tracking skills but comments like this do nothing but stir the pot. Why don't you chill out.

I’m chill, scroll back my comment is 100% a valid observation. Why are people so worried about offending others? If people were more willing to criticize these younger generations without fear of, god forbid, offending them they’d be a LOT more capable than they are. That’s a fact and all i see is a few saddle hunters where my comments probably hit a little to close to home for their liking.

Sorta like this one which didn’t seem to bother ya:

“Hope you don’t mind wearing a leash some states make it mandatory.”

That’s fine though, i don’t bruise nearly as easily as these kids do nowadays that leash comment is ridiculous so no need to censor it or tell him to chill i can tell him off just fine on my own if i wish to.

They have every right to call a dog the instant the going gets even remotely tough if they want if it’s legal, it isn’t in some places, but they’ll get no pats on the head or praise from me over it. They’ll get criticized for their embarrassing lack of effort and unwillingness to see it through to the end and learning valuable skills along the way. Coddling people does nothing but further inhibit their development as a competent hunter. Stop calling dogs and get out their and track. If you don’t want to put the effort in don’t take the shot just pick up an easier hobby.

 

[Spartan]

Reminds me of how soldiers these days rely heavily on technology and the most effective tools to execute their missions. Satellite imagery, digital optics, lasers, night vision, various remote sensors, satellite data transfers and comms, even DOGS, etc., etc., etc. Mostly stuff that previous generations of fighters couldn't even dream of. The best soldiers use the best tools at their disposal to get the job done.

Nobody is telling them they are weaker or less effective soldiers for using the latest and greatest technology, and that they should be fighting like their forefathers did

Just an observation.

 

[woodsdog2]

Is tracking a skill? Yes
Have dogs been used for centuries to track game? Yes


Like the dreaded crossbow, technology, time, and changes in laws dictate changes in method. I do not believe hunters 40 years ago were that much better. Maybe some, but most just wanted meat on the table.…..don’t find a shot deer, shoot another one. Less LEO’s as well. Spotlighting was huge in rural communities. You’re lying to yourself if you think people were “better” a generation ago. There are a whole bunch more of us now and so much easier to “see” with instant information at our finger tips.

Calling a dog isn’t an “easy” button. They are a tool, and often a very smart one.

I made a comment in regards to individuals barely being hunters these days, let alone trackers. That has more to do with lack of mentors…not desire. Most give up before they know what they’ve been doing wrong because they have no one to tell them any different.


A few people need to step down off of the soap box. I could definitely see myself getting into tracking dogs later in life when my desire to sit in a tree begins to fade. Watching a good dog work his trade is magic. THAT is a way to teach and give back.

This is so true about the lack of mentorship in hunting..... and I'll add a bit more to this.... the right type and kind of mentorship.... where woodsmanship, fieldcraft, ethics, morals, following the law etc.... take a front seat to the kill. I was hunting on public yesterday just on the ground. I went to a waypoint I had preestablished and found a lot of human activity so I pushed in a bit further. Found a nice sidehill deer run so decided to setup over that for the pm. I get into the spot and there are more human tracks from either the day before or that morning. It was too late to switch up again so I sat it out. I go over to one spot where the snow was scraped away for quiet footing while on a ground stand and there's a candy bar wrapper and a cigarette butt. I picked up the cand wraper and put it in my pocket. I heeled in the cig butt and covered it with ground dander and snow.... just to help it biodegrade quicker. It just P's me off to no end to see stuff like this. Leave it better than you found it. This guy's dad or hunting mentor didn't teach him well.

We all need to take a new hunter out and show them the right way to think about hunting.... not just the right way to hunt.

 

[swampdonkey]

Reminds me of how soldiers these days rely heavily on technology and the most effective tools to execute their missions. Satellite imagery, digital optics, lasers, night vision, various remote sensors, satellite data transfers and comms, even DOGS, etc., etc., etc. Mostly stuff that previous generations of fighters couldn't even dream of. The best soldiers use the best tools at their disposal to get the job done.

Nobody is telling them they are weaker or less effective soldiers for using the latest and greatest technology, and that they should be fighting like their forefathers did

Just an observation.

And despite all that technology the military still needs and uses actual boots on the ground soldiers capable and willing to go door to door kicking them in to flush out and eliminate the enemy.

Get out and track your deer kiddo. If you don’t know how get after it and learn. Stop relying on others to finish things you started.

 

[swampdonkey]

This is so true about the lack of mentorship in hunting..... and I'll add a bit more to this.... the right type and kind of mentorship.... where woodsmanship, fieldcraft, ethics, morals, following the law etc.... take a front seat to the kill. I was hunting on public yesterday just on the ground. I went to a waypoint I had preestablished and found a lot of human activity so I pushed in a bit further. Found a nice sidehill deer run so decided to setup over that for the pm. I get into the spot and there are more human tracks from either the day before or that morning. It was too late to switch up again so I sat it out. I go over to one spot where the snow was scraped away for quiet footing while on a ground stand and there's a candy bar wrapper and a cigarette butt. I picked up the cand wraper and put it in my pocket. I heeled in the cig butt and covered it with ground dander and snow.... just to help it biodegrade quicker. It just P's me off to no end to see stuff like this. Leave it better than you found it. This guy's dad or hunting mentor didn't teach him well.

We all need to take a new hunter out and show them the right way to think about hunting.... not just the right way to hunt.

Yep, you’re totally right. Every time i take my 8yo son out we are always picking up other peoples trash.

People that “hunt” like that are an embarrassment. Shouldn’t take a mentor for you to figure out littering and leaving soda cans in the woods isn’t the right thing to do it’s common sense. A lot of this type of stuff is just a microcosm of the degradation of society as a whole. It’s a me me me instant gratification society by in large nowadays and those individuals being brought up with those mindsets are becoming increasingly represented in the hunting community, it’s sad.

 

[Spartan]

And despite all that technology the military still needs and uses actual boots on the ground soldiers capable and willing to go door to door kicking them in to flush out and eliminate the enemy.

Get out and track your deer kiddo. If you don’t know how get after it and learn. Stop relying on others to finish things you started.

I'll just assume that your last few sentences were generalized rhetorical statements not directed at anyone in particular even though you were replying to my post, since not a single one applies to me in the slightest...a person you don't know at all.

Be careful not to stumble as you step off of that incredibly high soap box. Maybe use your lineman's belt

 

[swampdonkey]

I'll just assume that your last few sentences were generalized rhetorical statements not directed at anyone in particular even though you were replying to my post, since not a single one applies to me in the slightest...a person you don't know at all.

Be careful not to stumble as you step off of that incredibly high soap box. Maybe use your lineman's belt

This line tells me all i need to know,

“Be careful not to stumble as you step off of that incredibly high soap box. Maybe use your lineman's belt ”

Anyone who says stuff like that has no argument. Learn to track deer it’s as much a part of hunting as pulling the trigger. Your job doesn’t stop the second you make the shot that’s when the real work begins. If you disagree you’re exactly who i’m talking about.

Making a silly analogy to soldiers using technology doesn’t mean younger generations no longer need woodsmanship to be effective hunters. I’d laugh at that if i didn’t see that very attitude with increasing frequency in the woods. A lot of guys out there have every “game changing” gadget you can buy but can’t find, track, or butcher a deer if their life depended on it it’s pretty sad to see.

 

[kyler1945]

This line tells me all i need to know,

“Be careful not to stumble as you step off of that incredibly high soap box. Maybe use your lineman's belt ”

Anyone who says stuff like that has no argument. Learn to track deer it’s as much a part of hunting as pulling the trigger. Your job doesn’t stop the second you make the shot that’s when the real work begins. If you disagree you’re exactly who i’m talking about.

Making a silly analogy to soldiers using technology doesn’t mean younger generations no longer need woodsmanship to be effective hunters. I’d laugh at that if i didn’t see that very attitude with increasing frequency in the woods. A lot of guys out there have every “game changing” gadget you can buy but can’t find, track, or butcher a deer if their life depended on it it’s pretty sad to see.

there will be a peaceful transition of power for the office Of forum curmudgeon….

I will not fight the inevitable. You sir, have earned the crown.

I place it humbly on your noggin. All I ask is that I can still yell at folks to get off my lawn without it being seen as a power play!

 

[Buckhole75]

Bottom line on tracking dogs is this You can never go wrong using a good dog If it’s an easy track It will end with a dead deer No harm If it is a track that doesn’t lead you to a dead deer I assure you that you will not find it non your own So if your pride and so called ethics and woodsmanship won’t allow you to recover an animal You might better reevaluate your self as a hunter

 

[Jay_Disarray]

This line tells me all i need to know,

“Be careful not to stumble as you step off of that incredibly high soap box. Maybe use your lineman's belt ”

Anyone who says stuff like that has no argument. Learn to track deer it’s as much a part of hunting as pulling the trigger. Your job doesn’t stop the second you make the shot that’s when the real work begins. If you disagree you’re exactly who i’m talking about.

Making a silly analogy to soldiers using technology doesn’t mean younger generations no longer need woodsmanship to be effective hunters. I’d laugh at that if i didn’t see that very attitude with increasing frequency in the woods. A lot of guys out there have every “game changing” gadget you can buy but can’t find, track, or butcher a deer if their life depended on it it’s pretty sad to see.

i hope you mentor, and are passing on your knowledge and abilities to the more inexperienced hunters and training them to be the hunter you want to see then. Be part of the solution, not the problem

 

[Red Beard]

there will be a peaceful transition of power for the office Of forum curmudgeon….

I will not fight the inevitable. You sir, have earned the crown.

I place it humbly on your noggin. All I ask is that I can still yell at folks to get off my lawn without it being seen as a power play!

Post of the season

 

[swampdonkey]

i hope you mentor, and are passing on your knowledge and abilities to the more inexperienced hunters and training them to be the hunter you want to see then. Be part of the solution, not the problem

Absolutely! I’ve taken my 14 yo city slicker nephew gun deer hunting because his dad has no clue. My 8yo has been on the track of every deer i’ve killed since he was 4, no dog required for recovery. I’d bet he can track deer better than 80% of the 35 yo man children still living at home with their parents on this forum. He is an ice fishing addict and loves chasing squirrels with his ol Red Ryder bb gun with me backing him up with my .22.

But there are FAR too many bumbling man children out there toting all the best “game changing” gear for just one guy to mentor. So all a guy can do is criticize their laziness in the hopes one or two figure it out. The coddling of youth is darn near ruining an entire generation. Just look at all the offended man children upset that someone called out their lack of woodsmanship and inability to track a deer rooted in sheer laziness and addiction to instant gratification instead of coddling them and saying “there there, using a dog to track a deer that went 45 yards is just fine”. It’s sad, really is that there parents have never called these kids out.

It’s simple, you want to be a hunter learn to be a hunter. Tracking is an absolutely necessary skill in deer hunting. If you can’t do it or worse you’re too lazy to do it you have no business pulling the trigger. “Back out and get a dog” should be the furthest thing from a hunters mind.

 

[Jay_Disarray]

Seems though, like maybe you're making a lot of leaps and assumptions about folk and lumping them all together.

"A good leader leads the people from above them. A great leader leads the people from within them."

 

[Spartan]

I thought it seemed odd that everyone on this forum I had engaged with up until today was so reasonable, thoughtful and level-headed. Figured there had to be at least someone here with an inferiority complex that would need to act out and bully. I wasn't wrong.

 

[Bowonly]

Absolutely! I’ve taken my 14 yo city slicker nephew gun deer hunting because his dad has no clue. My 8yo has been on the track of every deer i’ve killed since he was 4, no dog required for recovery. I’d bet he can track deer better than 80% of the 35 yo man children still living at home with their parents on this forum. He is an ice fishing addict and loves chasing squirrels with his ol Red Ryder bb gun with me backing him up with my .22.

But there are FAR too many bumbling man children out there toting all the best “game changing” gear for just one guy to mentor. So all a guy can do is criticize their laziness in the hopes one or two figure it out. The coddling of youth is darn near ruining an entire generation. Just look at all the offended man children upset that someone called out their lack of woodsmanship and inability to track a deer rooted in sheer laziness and addiction to instant gratification instead of coddling them and saying “there there, using a dog to track a deer that went 45 yards is just fine”. It’s sad, really is that there parents have never called these kids out.

It’s simple, you want to be a hunter learn to be a hunter. Tracking is an absolutely necessary skill in deer hunting. If you can’t do it or worse you’re too lazy to do it you have no business pulling the trigger. “Back out and get a dog” should be the furthest thing from a hunters mind.

It's not just a soap box you're on, you harbor a deep disdain for anybody you deem as not being on your skill level. Evolution and growth as a hunter be damned. It seems like you've crossed an experience threshold in your mind and now seek recognition from strangers on the internet.

Absolute horse ****.

 

[EricS]

I’m training a tracking dog. People are losing the art of tracking. That’s not all they are losing either. There are a pile of deer hunters that didn’t start deer hunting until adulthood but I know guys that are literally scared of the dark. I know several that wouldn’t know where to start cleaning one.
The downside to doing everything you can do to find the deer on your own is after finding the hit site every step after that has the potential to make the dogs job more difficult.
Years ago I I kind of got sick of all these tv shows leaving bucks to lay overnight. It seems like one year half the hunts I watched did the “right thing” and let them lay overnight. We all make bad shots but it shouldn’t become the norm.
Twice this year I’ve heard someone say a deer wouldn’t give them a good shot but they knew if they could get one in him ole fluffy could find it. I really hope that’s not where we are headed.

 

[Bigterp]

I’m training a tracking dog. People are losing the art of tracking. That’s not all they are losing either. There are a pile of deer hunters that didn’t start deer hunting until adulthood but I know guys that are literally scared of the dark. I know several that wouldn’t know where to start cleaning one.
The downside to doing everything you can do to find the deer on your own is after finding the hit site every step after that has the potential to make the dogs job more difficult.
Years ago I I kind of got sick of all these tv shows leaving bucks to lay overnight. It seems like one year half the hunts I watched did the “right thing” and let them lay overnight. We all make bad shots but it shouldn’t become the norm.
Twice this year I’ve heard someone say a deer wouldn’t give them a good shot but they knew if they could get one in him ole fluffy could find it. I really hope that’s not where we are headed.

I’m right there with ya, I want to have a better bond with my pups & something for them to do. It won’t affect my shot selection or my woodsmanship. I don’t believe @redsquirrel started this as a take side’s debate more of a hope this isn’t where we’re headed……. I remember when they went pushed a lot of that leave them lay, without any context. Depending on property/situation/temperature that may be a poor call…….. I like dogs as a tool (not a crutch)