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Need some more help with scouting concerns

So, this is the set up I shot my 10 pt from this year in the kill thread. I attached both a topo photo and a regular photo. I’ll post his bed photo and his rubs in a separate reply. Notice you can’t see the wet area from the regular photo but it shows up in the topo. The stands shown are ladder stands that are not mine. The bed is in Yellow and faces the 9:30 positiom. The bed looks out at the 9:30 position over an open swampy area watching the red ladder stand. The bed is basically unapproachable from the back side due to the large and deep creek. The creek at the 9:30 position is only about knee deep. I entered from the purple icons, crossed the first creek, and was headed for the brown X at the 1230 position when I shot him. Notice where the bed was in-relation to the transition line. Hope that helps someone.
East, Northeast or South Easterly winds that day?
 
I agree, some examples my be more helpful. If i cant figure out how to take a screen shot of my onx map I will post it and you guys can mark it up. I try to do some on line scouting first because I just dont want to waste my time by just putting boots on the ground. That to me would be just wondering around the woods. Hell, maybe that isnt such a bad idea. JUST run through the woods and try to jump deer. ha light bulb just lit up.

Basically this has worked well for me....but you don't have to run.

I think there is a tendency to want to ambush prey, because the odds are in the predator's favor so long as the prey does it's part and shows up. But if you don't know where prey is or may be, you find them. Then you hunt them.

Seeing deer is the most absolute proof that deer are there.
 
Basically this has worked well for me....but you don't have to run.

I think there is a tendency to want to ambush prey, because the odds are in the predator's favor so long as the prey does it's part and shows up. But if you don't know where prey is or may be, you find them. Then you hunt them.

Seeing deer is the most absolute proof that deer are there.
As an example of this, last year I cold rolled into a place on Wayne National Forest. Walked in during a rain storm and just picked a good looking deer trail that was somewhat headed towards a hay field on the adjoining private ground. Kick up a deer, never got a good look at it to see if it was doe or buck. I mosey down the trail till i find a somewhat open area with some decent visibility and SRT my way up the tree. Maybe 90 minutes or so after the rain quit, so maybe 3 hrs total, buck shows up and i tag him. No idea if it was the same deer or not but i probably would of be wandering around for a while before finding another spot.
 
no AG Land meaning no farms that border it. there are some really tick and I mean thick. Some swampy spots but didnt see any deer sign only hog. and in the swampy sopts Dept. of natrul resources has live hog traps set up. Its not mountainous but it is hilly. a mix of hard woods and pine. I see a bunch of transition line on the onx app.
I’d hunt that hog infested swamp area…..
Usually hog will inhabit the same area as deer. Hog are much better at quickly sourcing food and because they dig and root, you might not find much deer sign on the ground. Outside of rut, once pressure starts, deer don’t really
move much during the day light hours. But I have rarely seen an area that has hog but no deer close by.
 
I’d hunt that hog infested swamp area…..
Usually hog will inhabit the same area as deer. Hog are much better at quickly sourcing food and because they dig and root, you might not find much deer sign on the ground. Outside of rut, once pressure starts, deer don’t really
move much during the day light hours. But I have rarely seen an area that has hog but no deer close by.
I will keep that in mind. I just thought that the Hog would run the Deer off because of how aggressive they can be
 
As an example of this, last year I cold rolled into a place on Wayne National Forest. Walked in during a rain storm and just picked a good looking deer trail that was somewhat headed towards a hay field on the adjoining private ground. Kick up a deer, never got a good look at it to see if it was doe or buck. I mosey down the trail till i find a somewhat open area with some decent visibility and SRT my way up the tree. Maybe 90 minutes or so after the rain quit, so maybe 3 hrs total, buck shows up and i tag him. No idea if it was the same deer or not but i probably would of be wandering around for a while before finding another spot.

I’m amazed at how many people think they can decipher what deer are doing, and why, and when, without ever having laid eyes on them doing it. They aren’t the KGB. They will give themselves away pretty easily if you just go look.

Not saying internet scouting, and strategizing with internet strangers isn’t useful sometimes.

But specifically with new, or inexperienced, or unsuccessful hunters, I just use a betting market to reveal reality:

Two hunters with these things in common: less than 100 hours in a tree/blind/on a stalk(hours actually hunting); never killed a deer; never had deer within their weapon range during the aforementioned 100 hours, no mentor, no hunting partner, no access to whitetail property managed for whitetail hunting success…

Both are given a season to hunt a 10,000 acre property they’ve never laid eyes on prior to January 1.

Hunter A: has 10k in saddle/archery/hunting equipment; has studied maps of the property extensively; has spent 40 hours hashing out strategies, and scouting and setup tips with forum strangers; spends a total of 40 hours boots on ground scouting, with half in off season, and half in season - scouting that consists of finding internet map points of interest and then visiting them in person; hunts 50 sets (sets equal an am, pm, or middday sit, or a >4 hour stalk) during the season on the best sign/spots they find.

Hunter B: Has a single hunting equipment method/setup and a bow they are proficient with; spends less than 2 hours talking to people on the internet about hunting equipment and strategy; spends less than one hour looking at a map to identify access and parking, and only revisits to confirm those simple types of details prior to or during visiting the property; spends 77 hours scouting (half off/half in season) by simply gridding the property and marking sign and good spots; hunts 20 sets - and uses the remaining 120 hours of “hunting time” scouting, then setting up on the best sign/spots they find.

Out of these two hunters, with no other options, and all else about them exactly identical, would you bet 100.00 is going to kill more/bigger deer?
 
I will keep that in mind. I just thought that the Hog would run the Deer off because of how aggressive they can be
Here in Fl we have a massive hog population. Deer and hog compete for territory with hog usually winning the day. However a good food source, water source and safe bedding zone can be scarce. Hog are often more nomadic than deer. So a sound might come through, eat and root around for a couple days then move to another area, where deer are more creatures of habit. Often establishing areas (scrapes and rubs). So even if the hogs run them off for a few days, the deer are smart enough to know the hogs will quickly move on to other areas. Even on trail cameras, we’ve had 6 hog around earlier in the morning, then deer at the same tree 3 hours later. Then the pattern repeat later at night.
 
I’m amazed at how many people think they can decipher what deer are doing, and why, and when, without ever having laid eyes on them doing it. They aren’t the KGB. They will give themselves away pretty easily if you just go look.

Not saying internet scouting, and strategizing with internet strangers isn’t useful sometimes.

But specifically with new, or inexperienced, or unsuccessful hunters, I just use a betting market to reveal reality:

Two hunters with these things in common: less than 100 hours in a tree/blind/on a stalk(hours actually hunting); never killed a deer; never had deer within their weapon range during the aforementioned 100 hours, no mentor, no hunting partner, no access to whitetail property managed for whitetail hunting success…

Both are given a season to hunt a 10,000 acre property they’ve never laid eyes on prior to January 1.

Hunter A: has 10k in saddle/archery/hunting equipment; has studied maps of the property extensively; has spent 40 hours hashing out strategies, and scouting and setup tips with forum strangers; spends a total of 40 hours boots on ground scouting, with half in off season, and half in season - scouting that consists of finding internet map points of interest and then visiting them in person; hunts 50 sets (sets equal an am, pm, or middday sit, or a >4 hour stalk) during the season on the best sign/spots they find.

Hunter B: Has a single hunting equipment method/setup and a bow they are proficient with; spends less than 2 hours talking to people on the internet about hunting equipment and strategy; spends less than one hour looking at a map to identify access and parking, and only revisits to confirm those simple types of details prior to or during visiting the property; spends 77 hours scouting (half off/half in season) by simply gridding the property and marking sign and good spots; hunts 20 sets - and uses the remaining 120 hours of “hunting time” scouting, then setting up on the best sign/spots they find.

Out of these two hunters, with no other options, and all else about them exactly identical, would you bet 100.00 is going to kill more/bigger deer?
See more deer or kill more deer. I know a guy on here who scouts and spends a ton of time on the ground during hunting season. He finds some amazing spots and bumped a lot of deer. If I wanted to know about certain areas and where beds or water sources were at, he is amazing at sharing what and where he found signs, bumped deer ect…. However this same hunter has had very little success killing deer. I have another buddy who has only been hunting about 3 or 4 seasons and he’s the same. He’s killed one deer in his life, but probably bumped, or missed enough to feed a small army. Scouting is in my opinion the single most important thing someone can do to be more successful at hunting. Killing well…. we all know the saying that’s why it’s called hunting not killing….
 
See more deer or kill more deer. I know a guy on here who scouts and spends a ton of time on the ground during hunting season. He finds some amazing spots and bumped a lot of deer. If I wanted to know about certain areas and where beds or water sources were at, he is amazing at sharing what and where he found signs, bumped deer ect…. However this same hunter has had very little success killing deer. I have another buddy who has only been hunting about 3 or 4 seasons and he’s the same. He’s killed one deer in his life, but probably bumped, or missed enough to feed a small army. Scouting is in my opinion the single most important thing someone can do to be more successful at hunting. Killing well…. we all know the saying that’s why it’s called hunting not killing….

We can argue over what’s more useful: killing skills or finding deer skills. That’s not what I’m asking. Both hunters share every other thing you’d want to measure equally. The only differences are the ones I’ve laid out.

Which hunter are you putting 100.00 on to kill more/bigger deer, with those two hunters, with their already existing skill sets(which are equal), being the only options?
 
For the record, Both hunters are going to suck. I would be pretty bummed out I had to choose one to secure my financial future. But this isn’t about my feelings, or what ifs. This is a pragmatic way of looking at a problem. And it’s an infinitely testable way of figuring things out. People like money, and want to keep it or get more. Each time you run the trap, they’re allowed to change their choices, with the only fix being “skin in the game.”

I’m not asking you WHY you’d pick one or the other, or your feelings about either hunter. I’m asking which one you think will secure the duffel bag for you.
 
For the record, Both hunters are going to suck. I would be pretty bummed out I had to choose one to secure my financial future. But this isn’t about my feelings, or what ifs. This is a pragmatic way of looking at a problem. And it’s an infinitely testable way of figuring things out. People like money, and want to keep it or get more. Each time you run the trap, they’re allowed to change their choices, with the only fix being “skin in the game.”

I’m not asking you WHY you’d pick one or the other, or your feelings about either hunter. I’m asking which one you think will secure the duffel bag for you.
@kyler1945 I would have to think the second hunter you mentioned would be the most likely to have success because he has seemed to spend more time on scouting and is setting up on the best sign that he has found.
 
you know yall i know you think what I'm asking is a way for me to fast track finding the deer. thats farther from the truth. If i was asking for that I would simply ask to find someone in my area to be a mentor and go out scouting with me and explain the hows and whys. but im not. The whole purpose was to get help form experienced hunter on helping me figure out how to key on on area form maps as a starting point. like i said i have over 300,000 acres in just one part of the state that happens to be close to my house. Im not looking for where the deer are but mainly how to break down all that land into manageable chunks to figure where I should start my boots on the ground search. I am very thankful for your help so please dont think that i am not.
 
realistically I could be standing in a spot that is holding and wouldnt even know it because i am trying to learn as i go. I would love to be able to spend every weekend out looking but i just cant. i can devote on day a week to go scout so I want all the effort that I have time for to give the best results for to better my chances with my limited time frame
 
See more deer or kill more deer. I know a guy on here who scouts and spends a ton of time on the ground during hunting season. He finds some amazing spots and bumped a lot of deer. If I wanted to know about certain areas and where beds or water sources were at, he is amazing at sharing what and where he found signs, bumped deer ect…. However this same hunter has had very little success killing deer. I have another buddy who has only been hunting about 3 or 4 seasons and he’s the same. He’s killed one deer in his life, but probably bumped, or missed enough to feed a small army. Scouting is in my opinion the single most important thing someone can do to be more successful at hunting. Killing well…. we all know the saying that’s why it’s called hunting not killing….
Something to be said about woodsmanship...
 
realistically I could be standing in a spot that is holding and wouldnt even know it because i am trying to learn as i go. I would love to be able to spend every weekend out looking but i just cant. i can devote on day a week to go scout so I want all the effort that I have time for to give the best results for to better my chances with my limited time frame

The point I’m trying to make with my “go walk around” chatter, is that deer hunting is not rocket science, but it does require a critical mass of knowledge/experience/skill to have success at. And the only way to acquire these things is to learn/experience/train.

I know you think people are trying to oversimplify this for you based on their own experience. I’m not. I’m telling you it’s about as close to a complete waste of time to ask strangers on the internet for deer hunting advice as you can get. This is because you don’t have the critical mass to build off of.

Go walk around and make it your mission to find live deer in the flesh. In and out of season. Huntjng before you can do that regularly js a waste of time.

On your own, with zero help from the internet, you can narrow down a 1-300 square yard area where deer are located at a moment’s notice.

If you want to know the most efficient way to get good at deer hunting, there are two:

-pay a guide to teach you everything they know over a season or two.

- do what I’m suggesting you do.

Unless you have 100k+ lying around, option 2 is your only option.

Asking internet strangers for help on how to be able to reliably locate live deer during hunting season will only slow down your progress to become a decent deer hunter. You don’t have to like that. You might be ok with it. In fact, asking strangers for advice might be the part you actually enjoy.

Learning to deer hunt is kind of boring. Unless you have plenty of distractions along the way. Or have the imagination of a child. As an adult, it’s just tedious.

Things to keep in mind: The granular detail people are trying to give you won’t help you because you don’t have the requisite skill and knowledge to capitalize on it. And it’s also useless because they aren’t you, and don’t live and hunt where you do.

Anyone who tells you that internet scouting and topo maps and seminars etc shortened their learning curve significantly is lying to you. They might correlate. But it’s hard to tease out how much those things have to do with success because along the way, they got better as hunters due to experience. I’m quite confident these things don’t help, and may even slow your progress down.

I can understand not wanting to be a human spreadsheet. So take what I’m saying, and figure out how best to apply it to your lifestyle and personality.

The sooner you forget all the game changers and tips and tricks, the better off you’ll be.

Go find deer where they are. You can do it. You will surprise yourself. The reasons it hasn’t happened yet likely have nothing to do with your smarts, effort, or manhood. I think the nonsense is holding you back.
 
you know yall i know you think what I'm asking is a way for me to fast track finding the deer. thats farther from the truth. If i was asking for that I would simply ask to find someone in my area to be a mentor and go out scouting with me and explain the hows and whys. but im not. The whole purpose was to get help form experienced hunter on helping me figure out how to key on on area form maps as a starting point. like i said i have over 300,000 acres in just one part of the state that happens to be close to my house. Im not looking for where the deer are but mainly how to break down all that land into manageable chunks to figure where I should start my boots on the ground search. I am very thankful for your help so please dont think that i am not.

It took me 10+ seasons to know every inch of a 2000acre property I hunt regularly. I went from no deer per season, to one occasionally, to “if I wanted to hunt only here, I could kill my 6 deer limit”. This is a property that only has about 25 or so deer killed every year.

I didn’t get that asking strangers for advice. I walked every inch of it multiple times and slowly absorbed the requisite knowledge to be able to hunt any weather or time of season and be within range of deer on almost every hunt.

Take 1-5000 acres of that property, and start walking it. I prefer straight lines and grids until you start to see things that click for you. But I don’t like stopping until I see deer in the flesh.
 
One thing that I always seem to notice that may help some just starting out looking for sign. When you're picking your way through the woods look on the routes that you choose to walk for deer sign. Most often I find the routes that I naturally chose thru an area are the same routes that the deer will choose to use. This is because, like us, they are inherently lazy. All things being equal, they will chose routes with the least resistance same as we would. Small openings between trees in thickets, low saddles, the edges of thick stuff, shallower slopes, etc. There are always exceptions and routes/timing of travel will be affected by pressure but pay attention to the route you naturally choose and you'll likely notice sign there.
 
One thing that I always seem to notice that may help some just starting out looking for sign. When you're picking your way through the woods look on the routes that you choose to walk for deer sign. Most often I find the routes that I naturally chose thru an area are the same routes that the deer will choose to use. This is because, like us, they are inherently lazy. All things being equal, they will chose routes with the least resistance same as we would. Small openings between trees in thickets, low saddles, the edges of thick stuff, shallower slopes, etc. There are always exceptions and routes/timing of travel will be affected by pressure but pay attention to the route you naturally choose and you'll likely notice sign there.
This applies to pretty much any game animal out there. When i give trapping classes, I always try to point this out. The thick stuff is good for hiding, but travel will almost always be on the path of least resistance unless they feel threatened.
 
@kyler1945 trust me I wasnt disagreeing with you. I get what you are saying I was just trying to get a little help on things. This property I was talking about is 300,000 + acres What i didnt understand was how to chose the best spots to start my walking around. I totally get what you are saying. when you said just go walk it. Im trying to break down all that acreage into smaller chunks to focus on little by little. The area is just to big to just start walking. I know there is a chance that not all there area will hold deer. I talked with Nutterbuster ealier today and he was able to help with some of the key factors with examples of how he scouts big woods. But yes you are exactly right I wont find them until i go out and find them. worst case is I dont see anything yet, best case I find good sign and have success. Reality is in an area that big without knowing where to start my search I just may get lucky but most likely not. And like you said odds are no one is hunting where I am so putting in the time to walk is only going to better help me to understand the were and whys. So let me ask you this specific question. I'm not meaning to offend if I do! If you were mentoring me as a new hunter and i asked to look at this map with 300,000 acres of land. How would you approach it never seeing it before? I know there is a chance that there may not be deer in the spot that was chosen to look at. how would you chose where to focus your first steps onto that property. Would it just be a random section of the property that you chose and look at transition lines creeks high point and low points . Im not looking for a quick fix to not have to put in the time. Time is experience and experience is success. I was just looking for tips on how to dissect such a big area bud to help eliminate lots of wasted time
 
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