New Gear for 2023, Go!

[Samcirrus]

I'm all for it. Finally!

Do you know what mods they're going to make the top to facilitate this?

As is, it appears you can't "herringbone" feet under the arms of the top portion unless your feet are very flat. And will the cable adjustment be manageable, in your opinion, while climbing to account for tree taper?

The support for the platform would have to be quite different to facilitate lifting it with just your feet (in order to make the most of your height per move) and to not wear out your core fighting friction and the saddle.

The saddle is squeezing your legs together and constricting your glutes which provide the greatest power in the first part of the "squat" going up, while at the same time your legs want to bow out because the tree blocks your knees going upwards and forward.
A soft 2 foot loop allows your feet and legs to angle outwards but a flat stiff platform restricts that and puts all the stress on your quads which can tire most people out since they're such a large muscle.
You're also right abt tree taper being a major challenge.

 

[Plebe]

The support for the platform would have to be quite different to facilitate lifting it with just your feet (in order to make the most of your height per move) and to not wear out your core fighting friction and the saddle.

The saddle is squeezing your legs together and constricting your glutes which provide the greatest power in the first part of the "squat" going up, while at the same time your legs want to bow out because the tree blocks your knees going upwards and forward.
A soft 2 foot loop allows your feet and legs to angle outwards but a flat stiff platform restricts that and puts all the stress on your quads which can tire most people out since they're such a large muscle.
You're also right abt tree taper being a major challenge.

I use a modified LW climbing stand platform. It works out well enough for me. I would like to lighten it up some, but don't see this offering from XOP as ready to go yet. I bet they'll add foot stirrups of some sort, wonder whats on the table. Also, the XOP cable adjustment seems cumbersome. I wonder if they're considering something different.

I don't have too much trouble climbing with my setup. It may not be for everyone though. I climb with feet under the arms. If I have to adjust cable length, I can do it just like I did when it was a full climber or I sit in the saddle and manage it sort of like a one stick. Straddling the tree isn't any different than it is with other saddle hunting methods; saddle design and/or how it's positioned on the wearer will effect how much leg mobility is offered. I do fine with typical panel saddle designs here, but the couple of saddles with articulated legs could shine in this application.

 

[kyler1945]

I’m looking at the amount of money spent on getting up a tree.

Bolts and spurs are illegal because they damage trees.

Damaged trees can be measured objectively, and a value can be assigned to that damage. The effort to evaluate and manage this value reduction is straightforward.

I’m going on the record as saying that the value of all the time, money, effort, focus, and opportunity cost of all these public legal climbing methods, all outweigh the value of damage done by an army of bolt and spur users, by a factor of 10. The effort to evaluate and mange damage by spurs and bolts would also be minuscule compared to the mobile hunter industry.

If there was a way to change the direction we were pointing the fire hose of money, I would be in favor. a usage/damage fee could be implemented with license sales.

Don’t climb trees and hunt from the ground? Great! Don’t pay the fee, and just pay a fine if you’re caught with climbing gear on public land. Simple.

 

[John 35]

I’m looking at the amount of money spent on getting up a tree.

Bolts and spurs are illegal because they damage trees.

Damaged trees can be measured objectively, and a value can be assigned to that damage. The effort to evaluate and manage this value reduction is straightforward.

I’m going on the record as saying that the value of all the time, money, effort, focus, and opportunity cost of all these public legal climbing methods, all outweigh the value of damage done by an army of bolt and spur users, by a factor of 10. The effort to evaluate and mange damage by spurs and bolts would also be minuscule compared to the mobile hunter industry.

If there was a way to change the direction we were pointing the fire hose of money, I would be in favor. a usage/damage fee could be implemented with license sales.

Don’t climb trees and hunt from the ground? Great! Don’t pay the fee, and just pay a fine if you’re caught with climbing gear on public land. Simple.

Haha this is totally true. The entire problem is essentially man made by outlawing the cheap and effective methods. The real irony is there have been thousands of trees bull dozed down for various projects on my local WMA in recent years.

 

[gcr0003]

I’m looking at the amount of money spent on getting up a tree.

Bolts and spurs are illegal because they damage trees.

Damaged trees can be measured objectively, and a value can be assigned to that damage. The effort to evaluate and manage this value reduction is straightforward.

I’m going on the record as saying that the value of all the time, money, effort, focus, and opportunity cost of all these public legal climbing methods, all outweigh the value of damage done by an army of bolt and spur users, by a factor of 10. The effort to evaluate and mange damage by spurs and bolts would also be minuscule compared to the mobile hunter industry.

If there was a way to change the direction we were pointing the fire hose of money, I would be in favor. a usage/damage fee could be implemented with license sales.

Don’t climb trees and hunt from the ground? Great! Don’t pay the fee, and just pay a fine if you’re caught with climbing gear on public land. Simple.

I looked and looked and looked and had no luck at tracking down what the fine or punishment would be for sticking a piece of metal into a tree on public land when prohibited. Anyone have first hand experience with this?

 

[kyler1945]

I looked and looked and looked and had no luck at tracking down what the fine or punishment would be for sticking a piece of metal into a tree on public land when prohibited. Anyone have first hand experience with this?

Get caught doing it ten times, and assume there’s no escalating repercussions, and you’re probably still not approaching the cost of all your do-hickeys.

It’s less than 500.00 100%, anywhere. And from limited research it’s less than 300.00 in a majority.

 

[gcr0003]

Get caught doing it ten times, and assume there’s no escalating repercussions, and you’re probably still not approaching the cost of all your do-hickeys.

It’s less than 500.00 100%, anywhere. And from limited research it’s less than 300.00 in a majority.

Max fine of $500 is what I kept coming back to but it was buried in like 7 reference documents that kept getting more obscure. Thanks, I was looking for a friend.

 

[peteherbst]

XOP sticks were mentioned to be 1.5lbs each and $180 for a four pack. Good price for the weight.

This guy weighs them in at 1lb 10.7oz “with tape”. He could have a prototype and I have no idea how much his tape weighs, but I’ll be interested in the actual weight once they start to sell. Still a good price for the weight either way.

 

[Public]

I’m looking at the amount of money spent on getting up a tree.

Bolts and spurs are illegal because they damage trees.

Damaged trees can be measured objectively, and a value can be assigned to that damage. The effort to evaluate and manage this value reduction is straightforward.

I’m going on the record as saying that the value of all the time, money, effort, focus, and opportunity cost of all these public legal climbing methods, all outweigh the value of damage done by an army of bolt and spur users, by a factor of 10. The effort to evaluate and mange damage by spurs and bolts would also be minuscule compared to the mobile hunter industry.

If there was a way to change the direction we were pointing the fire hose of money, I would be in favor. a usage/damage fee could be implemented with license sales.

Don’t climb trees and hunt from the ground? Great! Don’t pay the fee, and just pay a fine if you’re caught with climbing gear on public land. Simple.

If this rule went away I envision a public land forest full of "porcupine trees" from all the screw in steps and bolts from decades of hunters not removing them. Guys leave cheap hang-ons all the time - bolts/screw in steps are very cheap.

 

[kyler1945]

If this rule went away I envision a public land forest full of "porcupine trees" from all the screw in steps and bolts from decades of hunters not removing them. Guys leave cheap hang-ons all the time - bolts/screw in steps are very cheap.

Maybe so.

If so,

X dollars in lost lumber value.

X dollars jn porcupine removal costs(should it actually be a problem)

X dollars in hunter recruitment losses due to looking at porcupine trees.

Divide those costs by number of hunters generating the cost. There’s your fee/tax/permit price.

I promise it’s less per person than what is spent on climbing methods every year.

 

[Hlzr]

Maybe so.

If so,

X dollars in lost lumber value.

X dollars jn porcupine removal costs(should it actually be a problem)

X dollars in hunter recruitment losses due to looking at porcupine trees.

Divide those costs by number of hunters generating the cost. There’s your fee/tax/permit price.

I promise it’s less per person than what is spent on climbing methods every year.

And the pain and suffering if someone gets hurt or killed in the timber process? How about the hunting community just learns how to hunt on a budget and doesn't have to buy the latest and greatest, seems like that would be a lot smarter.

 

[kyler1945]

And the pain and suffering if someone gets hurt or killed in the timber process? How about the hunting community just learns how to hunt on a budget and doesn't have to buy the latest and greatest, seems like that would be a lot smarter.

This would be measured against reduction in people hurt and killed using unrefined and unsafe climbing methods, when they could be using much safer alternatives.

My guess is way more hunters get hurt or die climbing sticks and climbing stands and aiders and all that jazz, than from broken bandsaw blades.

But I admittedly have zero experience with timber life other than running a tiny bandsaw mill through a bunch of timber on private land with bullets, nails, and such.

 

[John 35]

If this rule went away I envision a public land forest full of "porcupine trees" from all the screw in steps and bolts from decades of hunters not removing them. Guys leave cheap hang-ons all the time - bolts/screw in steps are very cheap.

Speaking for my own local public I do see them all the time. The regulation seems to be both completely ignored and unenforced. But I can’t say it’s really hurting anything.

 

[John 35]

And the pain and suffering if someone gets hurt or killed in the timber process? How about the hunting community just learns how to hunt on a budget and doesn't have to buy the latest and greatest, seems like that would be a lot smarter.

Killed how?

 

[Hlzr]

Killed how?

You don't think that metal spikes and a chainsaw have the ability to take a life. Theres a reason activists do it on purpose.

 

[Weldabeast]

I'll be the first to admit i wanna outlaw and run spurs.... catch me if u can.... but those stupid things are expensive too

 

[Boomah21]

Seems this thread is going an odd direction lol

 

[John 35]

You don't think that metal spikes and a chainsaw have the ability to take a life. Theres a reason activists do it on purpose.

I just googled it and saw the activist stuff. I’ve hit a lot of old barbed wire and nails chain sawing and it definitely screws up the blade. But what percentage of public land will ever be logged? I think it would depend on the area of the country it’s in. Also spurs wouldn’t have this problem.

 

[John 35]

Seems this thread is going an odd direction lol

Ya I’ll give it a rest haha.

 

[Hlzr]

I just googled it and saw the activist stuff. I’ve hit a lot of old barbed wire and nails chain sawing and it definitely screws up the blade. But what percentage of public land will ever be logged? I think it would depend on the area of the country it’s in. Also spurs wouldn’t have this problem.

I'm just of the opinion that we need to affect the forest as little as possible in general, this includes damaging the trees, for every one abandoned stand we see there would be dozens of screw in setups left forever. We have the ability to hunt without causing damage, I for one will embrace it and leave the trees as healthy as I found them.