Non member product discussion

[SemperFlightMedic]

If it’s a paid membership is it really a public forum?
I gladly paid and will pay years too come. Red supported this site long enough. It’s now became work. Hard to enjoy. Too much moderation, Why would he want to foot the bill alone?


See you in a tree, Ricky

That is a good point; however, maybe less moderation and more open and free discussion would require less work. Sometimes I feel like we’re only allowed to talk about what “mom and sad” say is okay. For instance, the recent “Tethrd” thread was locked because it was thought to be a vendor issue. The OP stated several times that he was simply sharing his experience for the benefit of others.

My point is, sometimes when something becomes “work” it’s because you bring it on yourself unnecessarily. But, I also understand there’s plenty of other forums out there where enthusiasts can talk openly and without moderation. It is understood that here, there is a different set of rules.

I will say this, because of how this forum is moderated, and how vendors are limited in their interactions with others, I do not believe I will renew my membership when it expires. I’m not a vendor, but I think they too should be able to openly communicate. I also believe someone should be able to speak their mind and not have threads locked or deleted. But again, that’s the rules here- it’s not my forum, not my rules.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jefferson10940]

Until a rep responds and gets it moved


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If a member posts a question about products whether time line, info, reviews etc in the non vendor section, the vendors need to assume they are asking non vendors. And as hard as it is, not respond. If you want to respond PM them. So it’s up to the vendors to show some restraint and let the non vendors discuss. Once a vendor responds with company information it’s gonna get moved. Use the like button instead? Maybe that is a way for a vendor to support correct information? Not sure but vendors need to assume product questions in the non vendor section of forum it’s not meant for company reps to respond.
We can either delete reps comment or move the thread. Mods have done both and both illicit a response so not sure which is better?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[IkemanTX]

What is better is treating users/members like ADULTS and letting the vendor banner and/or signature speak for itself. Not castrating their communication abilities.

Grownups are more than capable of making grownup decisions about comments on a thread. It is no more biased than people who constantly bash any specific brand for no good reason.

The difference is this site tries to play arbiter. As if they are better able to decide who should have a voice than experience and good judgement.

You know... different strokes for different folks. Or fascist folks... I can never remember which....


..................................................................................... This is an announcement account only.
I am no longer active on this forum on a daily basis. If you have any questions or comments that you wish me to see, or respond to... please contact me at one of the other sites I am on, which ACTUALLY value free speech.

IkemanTx
On..... Instagram, TexasBowhunter, HabitatTalk, Tree Saddle Hunters R Us, The Hunting Beast

 

[IkemanTX]

The "Tethrd" thread started by a brand new user today was also locked, because a vendor rep said they'd PM the user.

Meanwhile an entirely different conversation had started in the thread and was going back and forth to welcome the new user, if a little gruffly, but in good humor.

Another thread asked about the release date for a new saddle and got a non-answer from a vendor rep. Sure enough that one got restricted as well.

I don't really understand the purpose or justification unlocking a new users thread, or a thread that simply contains a response from a vendor without it being specific information... But I do know that it's killing any enthusiasm I might have for this board.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Apparently they haven’t figured out the vendor thing... a MONTH later.


..................................................................................... This is an announcement account only.
I am no longer active on this forum on a daily basis. If you have any questions or comments that you wish me to see, or respond to... please contact me at one of the other sites I am on, which ACTUALLY value free speech.

IkemanTx
On..... Instagram, TexasBowhunter, HabitatTalk, Tree Saddle Hunters R Us, The Hunting Beast

 

[SemperFlightMedic]

If a member posts a question about products whether time line, info, reviews etc in the non vendor section, the vendors need to assume they are asking non vendors. And as hard as it is, not respond. If you want to respond PM them. So it’s up to the vendors to show some restraint and let the non vendors discuss. Once a vendor responds with company information it’s gonna get moved. Use the like button instead? Maybe that is a way for a vendor to support correct information? Not sure but vendors need to assume product questions in the non vendor section of forum it’s not meant for company reps to respond.
We can either delete reps comment or move the thread. Mods have done both and both illicit a response so not sure which is better?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I disagree with that practice. If a person posts a question in a non-vendor area, the vendor should have the right to respond to dispel rumors or mitigate the spread of misinformation.

I feel Iike there coul be more open exchange information with less restriction on a North Korea or Chinese saddle hunting forum.

Maybe I’m wrong (quite possible) but I thought the purpose of web forums was to share information. The ability to do so is limited here, to what admins/mods feel satisfies their ideas, rather than that which is in the best interest of the community.

But again, not my forum not my rules. But if it doesn’t change and lighten up here, I don’t foresee myself renewing my membership. And as far as fees go - who cares it’s $15, but I also have no objection to seeing advertisements- some are useful in sharing information, which is the idea here.

There are other places to discuss saddle hunting and other hunting related topics. If you keep restricting conversations here, those place will proliferate while this place will dwindle.

Admin/mods need to do what they feel is right for this forum, but also have to be willing to accept those consequences.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Allegheny Tom]

Lock it

 

[Jefferson10940]

I disagree with that practice. If a person posts a question in a non-vendor area, the vendor should have the right to respond to dispel rumors or mitigate the spread of misinformation.

I feel Iike there coul be more open exchange information with less restriction on a North Korea or Chinese saddle hunting forum.

Maybe I’m wrong (quite possible) but I thought the purpose of web forums was to share information. The ability to do so is limited here, to what admins/mods feel satisfies their ideas, rather than that which is in the best interest of the community.

But again, not my forum not my rules. But if it doesn’t change and lighten up here, I don’t foresee myself renewing my membership. And as far as fees go - who cares it’s $15, but I also have no objection to seeing advertisements- some are useful in sharing information, which is the idea here.

There are other places to discuss saddle hunting and other hunting related topics. If you keep restricting conversations here, those place will proliferate while this place will dwindle.

Admin/mods need to do what they feel is right for this forum, but also have to be willing to accept those consequences.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The vision of the owner of the forum is a place for saddle hunters to discuss saddle hunting, DIY ideas, discuss the likes and dislikes of products, among other things. But it was never meant to be a customer service forum. So In an attempt to accommodate the new commercial boom, a section for those interactions was created. I look at it as a compromise. The vendor section is read only for everyone. If you wish to contribute then yes the decision was made to make it paid members. So any pro staff if a paid member can contribute company insider info all day. We know Its not perfect but personally I do not see a perfect solution that would satisfy both needs. A month may seem like a long time to some but for me it’s been a blink of an eye. The mods just try to help maintain the vision and possibly some sanity maybe even their personalities through this.

The recent thread titled “tethrd” is an example of what we are dealing with, a customer went through the proper channels and did not like the result. Takes to the vendor neutral forum and tells his story, and seems to get the attention of reps rather quickly (understandably) and possibly a solution that satisfies him. This is an example of what we do not want this place to be.

Bottom line Is we are trying. And personally I would rather when concerns, constructive criticism come up, we take it to PMing and having a conversation/discussion. Not everything is black and white, there seems to be more gray area everyday.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ImThere]

That is a good point; however, maybe less moderation and more open and free discussion would require less work. Sometimes I feel like we’re only allowed to talk about what “mom and sad” say is okay. For instance, the recent “Tethrd” thread was locked because it was thought to be a vendor issue. The OP stated several times that he was simply sharing his experience for the benefit of others.

My point is, sometimes when something becomes “work” it’s because you bring it on yourself unnecessarily. But, I also understand there’s plenty of other forums out there where enthusiasts can talk openly and without moderation. It is understood that here, there is a different set of rules.

I will say this, because of how this forum is moderated, and how vendors are limited in their interactions with others, I do not believe I will renew my membership when it expires. I’m not a vendor, but I think they too should be able to openly communicate. I also believe someone should be able to speak their mind and not have threads locked or deleted. But again, that’s the rules here- it’s not my forum, not my rules.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m not getting in to right or wrong. I think I was just stating the facts.
I believe if saddlers would handle there customers questions, complaints through the proper channels this would never have been an issue. IMHO. There is a time and place for everything. Saddlehunter.com is not, will not be used for customers complaints and vendor contacts in the open forum. That’s how Red has decided it’s going to be and that’s how it is.
Sorry if it upsets all of you.


See you in a tree, Ricky

 

[huntin_addict]

@Jefferson10940 is a prime example of how the vendor interaction should take place. To be honest, I think @flinginairos & @g2outdoors are great examples as well. Unfortunately there are/were others here who were not as "neutral" in their responses. While you may think this is a public forum, it is privately owned. Similar to "my house, my rules". @redsquirrel and his team are trying to keep this site as neutral as possible.

 

[JBDaddy]

Y'all had the DE FACTO authority web resource for saddle hunting info, and rather than encouraging growth, you're limiting how users can use it.
You had the DIY headquarters for low-cost, low-barrier-to-entry participation growth encouragement not just for hunting, but for hunting in ways that initially attracted you too, and now you were recognized thought leaders to a growing chorus of others.

But "we don't want people to discuss customer support issues here" ... when those customers had no other dedicated, recognized place to assemble and share information.

You could have monetized this differently. I paid for Tapatalk just because of this site- the value was easy to justify before it became a tin pot dictatorship and started driving it's users to redundant, scattered, less useful and usable friggin Facebook.

Talk about killing the goose that laid the golden eggs.

This is part of why hunting is losing hunters.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[GCTerpfan]

But "we don't want people to discuss customer support issues here" ... when those customers had no other dedicated, recognized place to assemble and share information

People are free to "assemble and share information" all they want. The rules simply ask vendors not to provide customer service outside the vendor area. Inside the vendor area, vendors can provide all the customer service they want for $15 per year. if a vendor doesn't want to pay the $15, they can provide customer service on their own channels for free. the same $15 per year buys members the ability to interact with multiple vendors in one place, if a person doesn't want to pay the $15 they can seek out individual vendors at the vendors own channels.

This really isn't hard guys, I'm starting to think many of you haven't actually read the rules.

 

[SemperFlightMedic]

First things first- If I have offended anyone, I did not mean to do so, and I apologize.

Secondly- the rules, I’ve read them. I don’t like them. Rules will likely never change without opposition. I have voiced mine.

And lastly, I fully understand this forum is owned by someone, who with moderators, decides on the rules and their enforcement. That is their prerogative, as it should be. Again, I don’t like it.

It’s not a matter of not reading the rules, it’s a matter of not liking the rules that affect how people in a community interact. That is why I’m choosing to leave this forum. When I’m satisfied that I’ve explained myself and my account is deleted, you’ll not hear from me on this forum again.

I wish you all well, and again I’m sorry if I have said something to offend you. But if you just don’t like what I’ve said, that’s something different- that’s your issue to deal with. We all hear things we don’t like.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JBDaddy]

I'm starting to think you fans of this system are literally ignorant of the experience of new users.

1. New guy posts a question.
2. Vendor rep among others responds.
3. Thread gets moved to member only area
4. New guy can't respond TO HIS OWN THREAD unless he pays.
5. New guy leaves.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[Ontariofarmer]

First things first- If I have offended anyone, I did not mean to do so, and I apologize.

Secondly- the rules, I’ve read them. I don’t like them. Rules will likely never change without opposition. I have voiced mine.

And lastly, I fully understand this forum is owned by someone, who with moderators, decides on the rules and their enforcement. That is their prerogative, as it should be. Again, I don’t like it.

It’s not a matter of not reading the rules, it’s a matter of not liking the rules that affect how people in a community interact. That is why I’m choosing to leave this forum. When I’m satisfied that I’ve explained myself and my account is deleted, you’ll not hear from me on this forum again.

I wish you all well, and again I’m sorry if I have said something to offend you. But if you just don’t like what I’ve said, that’s something different- that’s your issue to deal with. We all hear things we don’t like.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Apologies are acknowledged my friend. I can understand your desire to defend freedom of expression. Speak the truth in love. A great man Paul - once said this.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Tr33_n1nj@]

I'm starting to think you fans of this system are literally ignorant of the experience of new users.

1. New guy posts a question.
2. Vendor rep among others responds.
3. Thread gets moved to member only area
4. New guy can't respond TO HIS OWN THREAD unless he pays.
5. New guy leaves.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Apparently even without number 2 was my point.

 

[Jefferson10940]

Apparently even without number 2 was my point.

Yes we would like that to be on the non vendor section but ultimately a vendor responds, then we need to decide what to do. It sucks honestly. Some guys want a response from non vendors and have a discussion without vendor interaction. The vendors need to respect that and if some mid-information arises they should pm them to clarify. Let the non vendor retract or edit their statement after.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JBDaddy]

This is an edited version of a PM reply I think is worth sharing.
-----

Respectfully, admins expecting a vendor to ignore a thread trashing their company is stupid.

You (admins) showed up in a thread trashing this policy, so I assume you agree.

Tethrd should have their own support site. But they don't, and even if did, people would still post tethrd stuff at SH. Tethrd reps would still respond.

Moving threads so they are reply-locked from the users who started or added to them unless they pay an extortion (er, membership) is also stupid. It tells a non-member new (potential future paying) user his contribution is not wanted unless he pays up front. That's not the INTENDED message. But it IS what he sees.

If you want to salvage it, remove the restrictions and just force vendor rep users to pay a much larger fee to keep replying on their company behalf using SH. They're going to get reimbursed or write the expense off on taxes anyway, same as they do all the travel, hunting license costs, etc that they can now to promote the company. They're the ones the current policy is intended to target anyway.

If Vendors get bothered paying so much for someone else's site, maybe they'll make their own support site. And that's what you seem to want anyway. But this way you get it without offending your own users.

Sell a lesser membership for we non vendor users who want to support the site, but make it optional, conferring only a little profile bling, or on site image hosting, NOT locking anyone out of replying and continuing to build the site as THE place for saddle conversations to happen.


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[TNbowhunter]

As one of the new guys whose thread was moved to a place I couldn’t respond, I think I’m well qualified to comment here.
I was initially pretty hacked off about having my thread moved, for sure. But, as the weeks have passed, I’ve grown far more annoyed with the folks griping about the rules and leaving dramatically than I ever was about having my post moved. The mods keep reiterating this, and I don’t think it can be overstated: PRIVATE MESSAGES ARE A GREAT WAY TO HAVE FREE VENDOR CONVERSATIONS ON THIS SITE. Whether your PM with the vendor is good or bad, the user can then share the substance of that interaction on the forum for all to see. No one is being silenced, just told WHERE and HOW to say what you want to say—you can still ultimately say whatever the heck you want (within the bounds of decency)!! Also, for you legal eagles out there, this isn’t a freedom of speech issue, as the government isn’t involved, unlike North Korea, China, etc., so that’s just misguided.
Don’t get me wrong—I can empathize with the folks who feel wronged and are frustrated about the new rules. But please, for everyone’s sake, just move on instead of making some grand show about leaving. It’s unpleasant for the rest of us.
And, if you’re REALLY upset about it, go start your own forum where you can moderate according to whatever rules you decide. If it’s that much better than here, folks will find it, join you, and this forum will die a slow and ugly death—what better revenge could you get than that? (Between us boys, though, we all know you’re not motivated enough to do that, which is why you’re still griping here instead of controlling what you can to make the world what you want it to be.)
All communities go through ups and downs. We’re obviously in a rut here, and the clearest path upward is letting the complainers clear out and take their negativity with them, not changing the rules. Just my two cents.

 

[Tr33_n1nj@]

Can we just have a section that is blocked from vendor use and free for non paying members? That stuff doesn’t get moved from?

 

[Jefferson10940]

Can we just have a section that is blocked from vendor use and free for non paying members? That stuff doesn’t get moved from?

That’s what the model was before these recent changes. Caused a lot of issues too. But from the vendor side. We continue to work behind the scenes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk