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Patents?
- Thread starter Torrent
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Hire a patent attorney. It can take anywhere from 18 months to several years. Before you spend the money on it, you might want to have a patent professional do a search to see if your idea matches other claims to an existing patent. With the right wording you can get almost anything patents even if it already exists. I mean there are guys who have gotten patents for g hooks and daisy chains even though they already exist and are very very obvious to people within our industry. Also be aware that even if your patent is approved someone can challenge it for review so you could spend all the money for the patent and still end up losing it later on. Make sure you also haven’t released the idea or someone else has released it even as a DIY picture or video. Once it’s released to the public without a place holder (“patent pending”) its grounds for patent denial or a challenge later on.
best of luck sir!!
best of luck sir!!
Bango Skank
Active Member
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Tried in 11th grade, but didn’t get very far with it.
Call Tethrd...
They'll know.
They'll know.
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But in an academic setting I'm sure you could get several million dollars in grant money and several grad students assigned to the project at taxpayer expense.
I’ll spare you a bunch of boring details.
if the thing you’re considering applying for patent protection on isn’t VERY unique, you really need to spend some time on the decision. Patent law is not cut and dry.
most people think that you can come up with an idea, pay a few thousand bucks to have a lawyer write up a patent application, and you can begin marketing your product and making money.
You need to think of patent protection as a spectrum. If your product is wildly unique, and has never seen the light of day, you can expect broad and enforceable protection of your intellectual property. If you’re a tinkerer who thinks his idea or twist on a product is incrementally better than another guys existing idea, you’re likely to end up with very narrow patent protection that can be skirted by people smarter than you with more money.
Two questions to ask yourself:
how much money could I potentially make off selling my product or the actual intellectual property itself? If that number isn’t in the hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars, I would not waste the time/money.
how unique is my idea? If what I’ve come up with can be easily accomplished another way, or with a slight tweak, a patent will not offer much protection. This is a sign that you need to keep refining the idea, and keep your mouth shut.
Of course, if an idea is unique enough, but doesn’t offer any current financial upside, it may still be worth patenting. But usually, if something is LITERALLY unique, not the watered down version of the word we use these days, it’s worth some money.
I’ve spent a lot of money having patent attorneys search for existing IP on a couple ideas I’ve had. Despite some ideas that I feel are very useful, patents would only offer very narrow protection. And I’d have to rely on other barriers to competition. In the end, none of them would generate enough revenue to make the risk worth it. Hard to be honest with yourself. But better to do it before you invest your soul or your nest egg…
if the thing you’re considering applying for patent protection on isn’t VERY unique, you really need to spend some time on the decision. Patent law is not cut and dry.
most people think that you can come up with an idea, pay a few thousand bucks to have a lawyer write up a patent application, and you can begin marketing your product and making money.
You need to think of patent protection as a spectrum. If your product is wildly unique, and has never seen the light of day, you can expect broad and enforceable protection of your intellectual property. If you’re a tinkerer who thinks his idea or twist on a product is incrementally better than another guys existing idea, you’re likely to end up with very narrow patent protection that can be skirted by people smarter than you with more money.
Two questions to ask yourself:
how much money could I potentially make off selling my product or the actual intellectual property itself? If that number isn’t in the hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars, I would not waste the time/money.
how unique is my idea? If what I’ve come up with can be easily accomplished another way, or with a slight tweak, a patent will not offer much protection. This is a sign that you need to keep refining the idea, and keep your mouth shut.
Of course, if an idea is unique enough, but doesn’t offer any current financial upside, it may still be worth patenting. But usually, if something is LITERALLY unique, not the watered down version of the word we use these days, it’s worth some money.
I’ve spent a lot of money having patent attorneys search for existing IP on a couple ideas I’ve had. Despite some ideas that I feel are very useful, patents would only offer very narrow protection. And I’d have to rely on other barriers to competition. In the end, none of them would generate enough revenue to make the risk worth it. Hard to be honest with yourself. But better to do it before you invest your soul or your nest egg…
Canopy stalker answered the actual question too.
Sorry!
It depends on a lot of factors. His range is accurate though. Many months to several years depending on how complicated the IP is and space it lands in.
OP if you want some general advice shoot me a PM I’m happy to talk through it with you.
Sorry!
It depends on a lot of factors. His range is accurate though. Many months to several years depending on how complicated the IP is and space it lands in.
OP if you want some general advice shoot me a PM I’m happy to talk through it with you.
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Well said man. Even if the patent is granted, the licensing fee or financial loss recovered after a lengthy lawsuit might still not be enough to make it worth unless it really is a popular and very unique idea. There aren’t many of those ideas left these days, in our industry I haven’t seen any idea that should be patent worthy (new and nonobvious) since Aerohunter made the og flex. That idea with the right lawyer could have made aerohunter a ton in licensing or sales alone. Essentially all saddles that exist today including my own, are twists on their pleated design, their original kestrel, or the Anderson tree sling. Sure some upgrades in materials have been made, or a couple extra features such as magnets or rappel loop mollies but I haven’t seen anything innovative to the point that it’s truly patentable to the point that it’s worth wasting the money. Even ideas such as rope belts aren’t new or innovative. In survival situations people were trained to make a piece of rope into a harness and rappel on it…
DB4x4
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"Did he actually smoke it?"
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My draw from this, if I read you right, is to carefully consider and count the cost. The idea being what it is, I think I'm safe in saying it's probably not worth the effort.
So, should I present the product to the world, or wait?
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PM sent
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Being that I don’t know what the product or idea is, I can’t tell you one way or the other. I’ve seen people patent something as silly as the shape of a g hook, is that honestly ever worth the cost? In my mind no, but to someone else it might be. I will say this, I’m excited to see your idea and if I can assist you in anyway please don’t hesitate to reach out… lol the worst Someone could say is no
Seriously though I am looking forward to seeing your invention
I have a hunting product that I know works very well, doesn’t exist, is cheap and easy to produce, and can make a profit. I use it religiously but I don’t have the time (or maybe the drive) to file a patent or produce them on a mass scale… I won’t even tell my best friends about it but I don’t know what to do with it!?
This is A guy I would reach out to for advice. Canopy stalker is a standup guy with an honest opinion he’s not afraid to share. He has a few things I’ve seen that are pretty innovative, patent worthy even. But you won’t have to worry about him copying them. im excited to see what you’re thinking also, but if you decide not to unveil, then have fun with it!Being that I don’t know what the product or idea is, I can’t tell you one way or the other. I’ve seen people patent something as silly as the shape of a g hook, is that honestly ever worth the cost? In my mind no, but to someone else it might be. I will say this, I’m excited to see your idea and if I can assist you in anyway please don’t hesitate to reach out… lol the worst Someone could say is no
Seriously though I am looking forward to seeing your invention
all due respect to both you and stalker, this is bad advice.
get anyone you talk to to sign an NDA prior to any exchange of information.
Leaving immediate family aside, I wouldn’t recommend talking to anyone without an NDA about your idea, no matter how good of an ole boy they are. And no matter how casual the conversation is.
intentionally or not, it is incredibly easy for someone to extract or destroy all monetary value of your intellectual property. Having a sound NDA in place prior to any transfer of information will offer some protection against that happening.
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I don’t disagree with you about an NDA. I think that an NDA is an excellent idea.
I showed guys a few ideas I have that make most saddles more comfortable, and there are a few other silly ideas I have (that are works in progress) to help getting up the tree easier. However I have never been so “money hungry” that I would ask guys that came by the house, or came to the Fl saddle meet up event to sign NDA’s. I asked everyone to please keep a couple ideas hush simply because I want things drop tested and released to the public by us so that other companies don’t go out and try to patent them. (Which has happened quite a few times by a couple companies when members on this site have had great ideas). So yes Kyler I totally agree with you an NDA would be a very smart business move for anyone who wants to protect their idea, and I would be happy to sign one for him if he wanted to share his idea with me personally…. As for me and my ideas, I’d never ask these guys to sign one to protect mine, because I have zero interest in patenting anything. I think patents stifle and stagnate innovation. You spoke earlier about narrow protection and how changing a couple small things allows people smarter and with more money to make your idea, I disagree with that to a great extent because in patent law there is a thing called the doctrine of equivalency. It’s where basically I patent an idea, you make the same thing but you change a couple things such as how it attaches or the percentage of attachments on the object, well even though yours doesn’t do everything mine does or the exact same way, it performs the same basic function and I could come after you using doctrine of equivalency. Then it comes down to money.. will there be a settlement? Will a judge see it your way or mine? Do you have the money to cover legal fees until the judge finally ruled (if he rules in your favor)? And do you truly sell enough of the product and make a big enough profit to make it worth all of that in the first place? In my mind patents stifle innovation and improvements, all for the love of money. I get it, I really do, but I just don’t have that thirst for money to see the need for them personally.
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Would you like the number to a fantastic intellectual property attorney? He ain’t cheap but he shoots straight from the hip and would help you try to patent this idea….it’s mostly in the wording’s . PM me if you want his contact info….
If a fellow has an idea, and he knows it's not world changing, and never intends to make money off of it, asking his best friend to sign a legal document before handing him a beer is a weird move.
If a fellow has an idea that might change the world, and he might want to make money off of it, it's an uncomfortable thing that's usually worth doing, from a business perspective. Friends will forgive weird moments when the next beer is of a higher quality in your fancy new man cave...
Patent law, and those who use it to protect IP doesn't equate to "money hungry". They're both based in the fundamental belief in a human being's right to own personal property. This belief is foundational to Western Society. If you think that laws designed to protect your right to own property is grounded in greed, well, my guess is that is in direct conflict with many other values you hold.
I disagree that laws to protect IP stifle innovation. Few things have motivated people like exponential growth of value. You can call that value different things - like wealth, money, fame, changing the world, making people's lives better, etc. But when your ideas can create large changes, you are much more motivated to perfect them and share them. We don't get to choose how someone cashes out that value. But protecting their right to generate it is a very strong incentive to innovate.
I agree with your assessment of the narrow protection that some patents may offer. I am not saying a fellow may not have legal recourse. I am saying that the potential reduction in value, created by all the things you pointed out, become much more likely with a narrowly defined patent. A patent can be useful as a barrier of entry to a potential competitor. But to actually enforce the legal protections of a patent, a couple things have to be true: You have to be able to afford it; and the entity you're going after has to have something to award you in the event you "win". This is why getting a patent for an idea that will only ever be worth 5000.00 is not money well spent. Even if someone infringed on your IP rights, and you sued and won, all you can win is what you can convince a judge it's worth.
I don't share the view that a thirst for money is a net negative with you. Pretty much all of the absolutely incredible changes in human well being over the last few hundred years are a direct result of a person's legally protected right to acquire capital, and use it to fund innovation. The wealth created has lifted half of humanity out of abject poverty, starvation, and disease. Is everything perfect? Heck no. But it's hard to ignore these facts.
Also, as an aside - the lawyers seem to get a really bad rap among the common folk. Everyone thinks they're the ones sucking us all dry. I heard a great analogy the other day - "Lawyers are the coders of society." Think about it - We all have ideas, and thoughts, and desires, and the way we want the world to be. Lawyers just takes all those abstractions, and create a framework to organize and execute them. Most people think "Lawyer = ambulance chaser". I agree we have become over-litigious in America. But trial law gets conflated with business law too often. There are millions of lawyers who simply take our ideas, and make them more concrete. If we have a problem with the work the lawyers are doing, we ought to be looking at our ideas they're putting into code.
Good business lawyers can bill at 300-700.00 an hour. Or more. They can't make that kind of money by reading and editing the details of a contract with no benefit to their customer. They have to be capturing or extracting value. The only way for that value to exist is for someone to create it. The only way for value to be created in large quantities is for us to believe in the right of a person to own it. If we start to erode those rights, you will diminish the desire to innovate.
I'm not saying any of this is right or wrong. Just looking at things for what they are.