Public access ? You tell me

[ekelsey15]

What exactly is an “easement” ?


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It is a legal way of accessing land typically for utilities that have to pass thru it while still leaving the land owner owning it. This puts certain restrictions on it for what can be built in that area sometimes. Think of it like this. You live in a neighborhood and have a storm sewer running through your backyard. There should be an easement so the owner of the storm line can work on the line. The easement will allow them access to the line and is incorporated in the deed in case of a future sale.

 

[Dietter700]

It is a legal way of accessing land typically for utilities that have to pass thru it while still leaving the land owner owning it. This puts certain restrictions on it for what can be built in that area sometimes. Think of it like this. You live in a neighborhood and have a storm sewer running through your backyard. There should be an easement so the owner of the storm line can work on the line. The easement will allow them access to the line and is incorporated in the deed in case of a future sale.

But this doesn’t mean the land owner (in this case) has the right to tell me I can or can not use it? Again I’m not trying to get away with anything here and plan on talking to the land owner I just want to know the facts ya know..


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[Tjraley2]

If it is truly an easement, then it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s for everyone. You may not be able to use it. You’ll need to confirm with who actually holds the rights to access through it and see who all is covered.

On my father’s property, there’s an easement that cuts through to a power line that is on the neighbors property. With the way the easement is written up, it’s only for use by the power company and the neighboring landowner has no rights to use the easement. In your case, it could be an easement granted solely to state employees and contractors and not for the general public.

 

[ekelsey15]

But looking at the picture you posted before it didnt appear like an easement. Typically the way I see easements they are incorporated within the actual plat. The picture you posted before looks to me to be actual road access to the land owned by the DNR or whomever. Personally I would access it that way and worry about it if someone questions you. If it comes to that you have enough evidence on your side to at least put up an argument. Its not like its a 5 wide strip that you have to access, its like 50' wide.

 

[Dietter700]

Thank you all for your help.

 

[Bourdeau]

I don't know about PA laws, but here in NY it is trespassing even if it's not posted without permission from the land owner. The easement is definitely a service lane so as not to land lock the state land. I have had this work in two different ways here in NY. One parcel I used to hunt the land owner would make it very difficult for people to use it. If you ever shot anything and tried to drag it out the warden would be waiting if he(landowner) heard a gunshot. Great hunting spot land locked limited access very few people knew about, so after him harrassing me a few seasons I used to canoe in from the other side until that adjacent land owner got wise and lowered the dam in the fall to prevent boat access across that water access. Best to ask the land owner in advance because in the end he/she will prevail, even if it is a public right of way. I have two of these in my housing development to town land and can't use either of them in daylight....LOL!

 

[GCTerpfan]

Just a couple of things for clarification. Assuming that OnX and the AcreValue website are correct (They show the same info because they most likely get their data from the same source. Your County most likely has an 'official' GIS website that should also show you parcel information) the parcel in question is not an easement. It is a separate 12.1 Ac parcel that is owned by the PA Game Commission. When I see long linear strips of ground like this they are most likely from abandoned Rail roads, abandoned roads, or platted streets that were never constructed, that have been sold to someone else. I agree that the Game Commission most likely purchased this parcel at some point to improve access to the game lands but, the matching strip across the road that is owned by another landowner shows that the parcel was originally created for another purpose.

Your best bet is to show the landowner who posted the property a map showing the parcel is owned by the Game Commission and tell him you are going to use it to access the game lands. If he tells you he owns it and to stay off, then determine how much effort and money you want to put into proving him wrong. Or just use it and if he calls the warden, use the info above as your defense in court.

 

[PaCrossbowHunter]

Here are two more mapping resources you can use to help determine if it is public land. If all of your resources say it is public then I would go ahead and use it.
PA Game Commision GIS: https://pagame.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=bf057e56bdf24fc7ae5f9e6ff5609b34
USGS Protected areas GIS: https://maps.usgs.gov/padus/
These systems use two different data sources. OnX likely uses a paid service that would be a different data source from these two. That would be three distinct data sources and if they all say the same thing I would say you have done your homework and have plenty of evidence to show the land owner or Warden should the need arise.

 

[IkemanTX]

There should be a parcel number, or parcel ID listed on that website. I would just call the tax assessors office and verify that that specific parcel ID number is owned by the state.

If all that checks out, the landowner can post signs all he wants... they are technically littering. I would have printed and digital copies of the property boundaries (with tax ID and ownership showed) from the tax website with you for proof, and the phone number of the tax assessor. That way when the landowner tries to call the cops on you, you have all the proof you need.

 

[MaxJac]

I don’t think he wants to hunt it. I think he wants to access the rest of the public land and get to a point other hunters likely won’t go.

growing up, we had a saying... "thinking is not knowing..." go and talk to the farmer, then you know.

 

[IkemanTX]

growing up, we had a saying... "thinking is not knowing..." go and talk to the farmer, then you know.

I don’t trust neighboring landowners when it comes to things like this....
I’ve had guys post public land with no trespass signs, and accuse me of trespassing on what is clearly public ground. Often times they decide they own the public ground too.

 

[GCTerpfan]

I don’t trust neighboring landowners when it comes to things like this....
I’ve had guys post public land with no trespass signs, and accuse me of trespassing on what is clearly public ground. Often times they decide they own the public ground too.

Just be careful relying on tax maps to determine boundary lines (this includes services like OnX) Tax maps/records are intended only as a role for levying taxes. In almost 20 years of being a land surveyor I can assure I have run into way more instances of incorrect tax maps then I have of people claiming public land as their own. Poor tax maps/plats are a also a lot more common on our side of the Mississippi where much of the land was surveyed prior to the PLSS system.

 

[dalton916]

Just be careful relying on tax maps to determine boundary lines (this includes services like OnX) Tax maps/records are intended only as a role for levying taxes. In almost 20 years of being a land surveyor I can assure I have run into way more instances of incorrect tax maps then I have of people claiming public land as their own. Poor tax maps/plats are a also a lot more common on our side of the Mississippi where much of the land was surveyed prior to the PLSS system.

And be careful of GW’s relying on GIS mapping as well.

A few years back myself, my son and 2 other guys we discover had gotten permission that week from my buddy were duck hunting on a 32 acre parcel my buddy owned. One of the guys went to the boat and on the river there was a warden there ready to write all 4 a trespassing to hunt waterfowl ticket. Not cheap and basically a loss of license since it’s an 18 pt violation and you only get 18 pts to lose.

The guy comes back and tells me the warden wants to talk to me. I walk over and he tells me I’m trespassing. I tell him I am not. He shows me a screenshot from the county GIS. Now I know I have him and not the other way around. After about 25-30 minutes of back and forth he calls the owner and asks if we have permission. He’s told yes. Then he tells the owner that it didn’t matter as we weren’t on his property so the owner asks him where we were and the warden tells him. The owner promptly informs him that if we were where he says we were that we were indeed on the correct property.

The warden says “well I guess I need to do a little more research” and the owner invites him to his office because he has all the research needed. Warden asks how much research might he have and the owner says....”enough to satisfy me as the property owner and as a professional land surveyor”......

At this point the warden realized he was biting off more than he could chew so he gets off the phone then promptly comes after me again and asks how I know the owner.....”next time you’re in Columbia swing by the LLR office and pull his file and look up his application for licensure. When you do you’ll see my name be use I’m the professional land surveyor that trained him”. Boom. Get some you little ****.

So he wrote me and the other guy both $125 tickets for coming up the river that morning without our anchor lights on

Bottom line is, the county GIS showed this parcel as being about 10.5 acres. Trust me, it’s 32.