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Rappelling 101

weekender21 said:
This is a bit of a divergence from the intent of the thread and not a point I’m willing to die on a hill for but, here’s more information on the VT for anyone interested. Rich Carlson is definitely a pro.




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Definitely a cool knot, and I agree it has some great applications.
 
I just got out a luggage scale and set up an ATC with a prusik below and attached the luggage scale to the prusik. About 5 lbs of force was required to stop me from slipping. I was attached to the ATC with a harness. I then clipped the prusik directly to the rope and applied my full weight of around 175 lbs. No way I could move the prusik under load and when unweighted could not move it without loosening. I vaguely remembered when I was learning to climb this past summer when I got stuck up in the air hanging from only a prusik. I think I reached below me and tied a figure eight knot in the tail end of the rope to stand on so I could loosen the prusik and get my weight back on the ATC. ;)
 
bj139 said:
I just got out a luggage scale and set up an ATC with a prusik below and attached the luggage scale to the prusik. About 5 lbs of force was required to stop me from slipping. I was attached to the ATC with a harness. I then clipped the prusik directly to the rope and applied my full weight of around 175 lbs. No way I could move the prusik under load and when unweighted could not move it without loosening. I vaguely remembered when I was learning to climb this past summer when I got stuck up in the air hanging from only a prusik. I think I reached below me and tied a figure eight knot in the tail end of the rope to stand on so I could loosen the prusik and get my weight back on the ATC. ;)
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That’s the benefit of the VT. It’s just as easy to move under a load.


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bj139 said:
I just got out a luggage scale and set up an ATC with a prusik below and attached the luggage scale to the prusik. About 5 lbs of force was required to stop me from slipping. I was attached to the ATC with a harness. I then clipped the prusik directly to the rope and applied my full weight of around 175 lbs. No way I could move the prusik under load and when unweighted could not move it without loosening. I vaguely remembered when I was learning to climb this past summer when I got stuck up in the air hanging from only a prusik. I think I reached below me and tied a figure eight knot in the tail end of the rope to stand on so I could loosen the prusik and get my weight back on the ATC. ;)
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Classic prussik, or autoblock? classic prussik is not reccomended for that exact reason. Autoblock, kleimheist, and VT are releasable under load. IF you extend the atc away from your belay loop, less force will be required.

Good for you to be testing and really understanding how systems will work in real life for you!

Glad you figured it out and are not still stuck up a tree :)
 
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Vtbow said:
Classic prussik, or autoblock? classic prussik is not reccomended for that exact reason. Autoblock, kleimheist, and VT are releasable under load. IF you extend the atc away from your belay loop, less force will be required.

Good for you to be testing and really understanding how systems will work in real life for you!

Glad you figured it out and are still stuck up a tree :)
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A standard Prusik is the screwdriver of the climbing sports world. Probably the single most misused hitch.


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I was using a non symetrical 3 over 2 prusik loop for my first test. At 5 lbs load, it was super easy to move. After the Carlson video I realized I had a DDRT setup with a VT knot already hanging from my pullup bar. I set it to SRT and proceeded to weight and slide down a foot. I did this several times and it seemed to work OK. The VT prusik was so tight at this point, I could not move it without loosening it. I guess this is why arborists do not use even the VT prusik alone but need other devices to remove some of the load.
 
Here is one from a professional. Notice what he says after 1:10 minutes.
 
weekender21 said:
That’s the benefit of the VT. It’s just as easy to move under a load.


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I have found even the VT tightens under load and can be difficult to move. Using DDRT, with half my weight on the knot (about 90 lbs) it seems manageable. With my full weight, not as good. I don't want to get stuck up a tree again. I do know how to get down however. :D
 
bj139 said:
I have found even the VT tightens under load and can be difficult to move. Using DDRT, with half my weight on the knot (about 90 lbs) it seems manageable. With my full weight, not as good. I don't want to get stuck up a tree again. I do know how to get down however. :D
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Your entitled to your input and opinion, glad you’re on the forum.

But....it’s not possible to get stuck using a properly tied VT.


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I just tried my 3 turn VT made with sewn eye Sterling 8mm RIT cord on 11.4mm Bluewater Assault line. By bouncing up and down I was able to tighten the VT and achieve the impossible. I could not break it free while under load. Probably weak hands. :D
 
bj139 said:
I just tried my 3 turn VT made with sewn eye Sterling 8mm RIT cord on 11.4mm Bluewater Assault line. By bouncing up and down I was able to tighten the VT and achieve the impossible. I could not break it free while under load. Probably weak hands. :D
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You said it, not me.

I’m sure you could successfully break the handle off your mechanical belay device too but...why?

Good luck amigo.


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Vtbow said:
Can someone use a 2x4 as a chock to jam in an offwidth crack and girth hitch it to use as fall protection because they dont have a large enough cam or trango big bro? Sure.
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So how long of 2x4? Got pics or video? Treated or untreated? :grinning:

Someone had to say it. LOL.
 
weekender21 said:
You said it, not me.

I’m sure you could successfully break the handle off your mechanical belay device too but...why?

Good luck amigo.


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I am just testing and reporting. Better than no testing. I encourage everyone to do the same. It's easy but it takes the willingness to change your mind when you are mistaken.
 
Mechanical devices excluded. Merits of ATS/Pirana/figure8/critter over an ATC? Seems like the more popular smaller diameter ropes are not gathering enough friction from an ATC pushing people towards double biners etc. Are those devices valued by many of you or just a larger more cumbersome method of getting the right resistance for your rappel.
 
Haven’t used a Pirana in a while, and never in a hunting situation. It has ways to easily increase friction. So that could be useful on smaller diameter. Also has features that make blocking it easier. Not sure if You could/should use a friction hitch backup below a pirana
 
What I do is use a safeguard on my RCH to climb and descend. I don’t use a friction hitch with it. I prefer it over using one system to go up and a different system to go down because there’s no change over. From the time I leave the ground until I get back I’m connected to the rope with the safeguard.

At hunting height I use a fleece saddle with a prusik and transfer my weight to it and tie a stopper knot below my safeguard.

That’s what I do and I’m comfortable with it. YMMV.



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