Rappelling hardware

[Shane6491]

I just ordered some Beal Jammys to use as an auto block. Totally relying on the mad rock safeguard just makes me nervous. At least if I have the Beal jammy on my linesman Koop I can re-attach my hand ascender and get down safely.

How you liking that ? Mite just sang one of them I believe they are used for the 8mm oplux I’m running. Also what length did you get 35,50,60?

 

[bj139]

I have this Beal Jammy. It must be the 50cm since I shortened it with an Alpine Butterfly knot.

 

[Newhunter1]

One of the things I thought about or heard was not to use a beal jammy on oplux...don't know if it's true, but I decided to go the safe route and listen to Sterling and follow their directions. I use 6mm TRC, sterling for my autoblock and make a distel hitch with stafford or fishermans knots. Makes it easy to stay in the tree...once that distel bites down and if there any weight...you can literally jump into the distel with the safeguard fully open and you aren't headed anywhere. Course if you do just that then the issue would be to get the TRC line to release as the bite would be rather tight.

That said...I use an autoblock with my safeguard and tied into a distel or swhabish hitch. One time this spring I forgot to put the autoblock on when I was practicing and as i was coming down the tree I went to fast and was wondering on the way down why I was going to fast. Then it hit me (no not the ground) that I forgot the autoblock. Released the handle on the safeguard and literally stopped a foot from the ground...my back was a foot from the ground. Talk about a wake up...I mean I was probably going about 3 mph...but still. I thought whew!!

 

[Banded_mallard]

One of the things I thought about or heard was not to use a beal jammy on oplux...don't know if it's true, but I decided to go the safe route and listen to Sterling and follow their directions. I use 6mm TRC, sterling for my autoblock and make a distel hitch with stafford or fishermans knots. Makes it easy to stay in the tree...once that distel bites down and if there any weight...you can literally jump into the distel with the safeguard fully open and you aren't headed anywhere. Course if you do just that then the issue would be to get the TRC line to release as the bite would be rather tight.

That said...I use an autoblock with my safeguard and tied into a distel or swhabish hitch. One time this spring I forgot to put the autoblock on when I was practicing and as i was coming down the tree I went to fast and was wondering on the way down why I was going to fast. Then it hit me (no not the ground) that I forgot the autoblock. Released the handle on the safeguard and literally stopped a foot from the ground...my back was a foot from the ground. Talk about a wake up...I mean I was probably going about 3 mph...but still. I thought whew!!

I agree on the Beal jammy and oplux. I was not comfortable with the oplux being out of spec for the safeguard. I use sterling canyon CI-v which to my knowledge is on with a Beal jammy

 

[Shane6491]

Where you guys reading that jammy won’t work on oplux? DanO sells them and recommends them on the smaller ropes. Even says on their page made for smaller diameter ropes ? Every add that sells them says there for small diameter ropes.Also there a lot of stuff guys use on here that’s out of spec the safeguard works great with oplux. Both jammy and safeguard are .1mm out of spec to use on oplux. Personally not worried about that. But yes we all assume the risk When climbing trees.

 

[bj139]

Where you guys reading that jammy won’t work on oplux? DanO sells them and recommends them on the smaller ropes. Even says on their page made for smaller diameter ropes ? Every add that sells them says there for small diameter ropes.Also there a lot of stuff guys use on here that’s out of spec the safeguard works great with oplux. Both jammy and safeguard are .1mm out of spec to use on oplux. Personally not worried about that. But yes we all assume the risk When climbing trees.

In the picture above you can see I have an asymetric Prusik. It holds better in one direction than the other. I did have a problem last year where I had a 4 turn symmetric Prusik on a Jammy and was up a tree and it was so tight it took me several minutes to loosen it. I thought I was stuck but worked it out. I switched to a 3 turn and it was OK then found out about the asymetric Prusik and have 3 turns over 2 turns which works OK also.

 

[Newhunter1]

The jammy I had got bite down so tight I was literally stuck about 4' off the ground. I was able to get it loose (obviously) and got my TRC rope out and used a distel hitch. Night and day difference. That's why I switched to the TRC cord.

 

[Shane6491]

10-4 guys thanks for the info.

 

[Red Beard]

Both jammy and safeguard are .1mm out of spec to use on oplux.

Need to be clear with the messaging. It's important because conversations here influence decisions that newcomers make. That said, Mad Rock has specified that the Safeguard can be used with ropes down to 8.1mm "for rescue / rigging". They make a distinction between this type of use and "climbing". Now, the difference between these types varies widely from source to source...

Here's a good read taken from Pinnacle Arborists for folks to consider.

"Two of the most important pieces of tree gear you will ever own are your climbing rope and your rigging rope. And it is absolutely essential that you understand the difference between the two. Failing to use them for the right purposes is extremely dangerous and could result in accidents like:

• Deadly or debilitating falls
• Being struck by falling limbs

The Big Difference

The big difference between these two types of tree gear are their primary uses. Climbing rope is the rope that secures you to your saddle and to the tree as you climb up and down. It is made for this purpose and should not be used for anything else.

On the other hand, rigging rope is what you would use to lower and move heavy objects such as cut tree limbs. Again, this rope should not be used for other applications. The wear and tear on a rigging rope should not be used to support you as you climb."

Most sources make a distinction between rigging and climbing by saying that rigging ropes are used or abused in some way (this implies use in abrasive environments). The general idea is that you should never climb on a rope that's already been used for rigging.

Text from Mad Rock's site for reference:
"For rescue / rigging use: 8.1mm to 11mm rope diameter
For climbing use: 8.9mm to 11mm rope diameter"

 

[bj139]

Climbing use of a belay device is typically where a person on the ground has the belay device and the climber is tied to the other end of the rope. In a fall, the rope slides through and the device should lock up stopping the climber from falling.

In rescue /rigging weight is just hanging from the rope and there is no dynamic fall event so the use is less critical.

 

[Shane6491]

Need to be clear with the messaging. It's important because conversations here influence decisions that newcomers make. That said, Mad Rock has specified that the Safeguard can be used with ropes down to 8.1mm "for rescue / rigging". They make a distinction between this type of use and "climbing". Now, the difference between these types varies widely from source to source...

Here's a good read taken from Pinnacle Arborists for folks to consider.

"Two of the most important pieces of tree gear you will ever own are your climbing rope and your rigging rope. And it is absolutely essential that you understand the difference between the two. Failing to use them for the right purposes is extremely dangerous and could result in accidents like:

• Deadly or debilitating falls
• Being struck by falling limbs

The Big Difference

The big difference between these two types of tree gear are their primary uses. Climbing rope is the rope that secures you to your saddle and to the tree as you climb up and down. It is made for this purpose and should not be used for anything else.

On the other hand, rigging rope is what you would use to lower and move heavy objects such as cut tree limbs. Again, this rope should not be used for other applications. The wear and tear on a rigging rope should not be used to support you as you climb."

Most sources make a distinction between rigging and climbing by saying that rigging ropes are used or abused in some way (this implies use in abrasive environments). The general idea is that you should never climb on a rope that's already been used for rigging.

Text from Mad Rock's site for reference:
"For rescue / rigging use: 8.1mm to 11mm rope diameter
For climbing use: 8.9mm to 11mm rope diameter"

Good read man. Still lots of guys here use them on 8mm oplux and it’s fine. Assume at your own risk in everything we do as saddle hunters. You will have 10 guys on here say it’s fine to use on 8mm then you will have another 10 say not to use them. I understand the risks and as far as new guys coming in they also should read read read before purchasing gear. Then practice practice practice. Everything on this site differs widely from source to source. Everyone has Their options And what they use vs right or wrong. It’s all about what you personally want to assume the risk too. I commented on this post bc I plan to back up my safeguard on my oplux 8mm. So far good info on what to use with my set up. Appreciate the advice fellas.

 

[Red Beard]

Good read man. Still lots of guys here use them on 8mm oplux and it’s fine. Assume at your own risk in everything we do as saddle hunters. You will have 10 guys on here say it’s fine to use on 8mm then you will have another 10 say not to use them. I understand the risks and as far as new guys coming in they also should read read read before purchasing gear. Then practice practice practice. Everything on this site differs widely from source to source. Everyone has Their options And what they use vs right or wrong. It’s all about what you personally want to assume the risk too.

You're exactly right sir! Life is full of risk assessment opportunities. I wasn't trying to say that using OpLux in conjunction with a Safeguard is can't be done. Just want to ensure that the casual reader understands the use case in which Mad Rock deemed the Safeguard safe for use. For whatever reason, they consciously decided to make a distinction in tolerance between the 8.1mm for rescue / rigging and 8.9mm for climbing applications.

 

[DeadHeadSpread]

This thread was a huge help in making a decision. Looks like most agree on a mad rock safeguard with an autoblock For rappel. I’ve been investigating one sticking as a climbing method mainly because I thought it would be a huge cost savings. Wrong. Hawk helium stick, 2 step aider, 45’ canyon 4 rope, madrock safeguard, and Beal jammy adds up to $270 to one stick and rappel. I Can buy 6 brand new 30” hawk helium sticks for less than that, 4 to use and 2 to collect dust in my garage. Yes, I know, that would be more weight to carry than rappeling.

 

[Homebrew454]

This thread was a huge help in making a decision. Looks like most agree on a mad rock safeguard with an autoblock For rappel. I’ve been investigating one sticking as a climbing method mainly because I thought it would be a huge cost savings. Wrong. Hawk helium stick, 2 step aider, 45’ canyon 4 rope, madrock safeguard, and Beal jammy adds up to $270 to one stick and rappel. I Can buy 6 brand new 30” hawk helium sticks for less than that, 4 to use and 2 to collect dust in my garage. Yes, I know, that would be more weight to carry than rappeling.

Yeah but you get to feel like Batman when you RAPPEL!!!

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[SNIPERBBB]

This thread was a huge help in making a decision. Looks like most agree on a mad rock safeguard with an autoblock For rappel. I’ve been investigating one sticking as a climbing method mainly because I thought it would be a huge cost savings. Wrong. Hawk helium stick, 2 step aider, 45’ canyon 4 rope, madrock safeguard, and Beal jammy adds up to $270 to one stick and rappel. I Can buy 6 brand new 30” hawk helium sticks for less than that, 4 to use and 2 to collect dust in my garage. Yes, I know, that would be more weight to carry than rappeling.

still cheaper than SRT kit...though the DRT kit is much cheaper

 

[sdoyle1]

This thread was a huge help in making a decision. Looks like most agree on a mad rock safeguard with an autoblock For rappel. I’ve been investigating one sticking as a climbing method mainly because I thought it would be a huge cost savings. Wrong. Hawk helium stick, 2 step aider, 45’ canyon 4 rope, madrock safeguard, and Beal jammy adds up to $270 to one stick and rappel. I Can buy 6 brand new 30” hawk helium sticks for less than that, 4 to use and 2 to collect dust in my garage. Yes, I know, that would be more weight to carry than rappeling.

With all that gear for one sticking you could add a hand ascender with a foot loop and have SRT as on option. Then you could one stick climb and leave a preset loop for later if you wanted to. I’m fairly new to the game but this is going to be my approach. I decided on this because I’ve found SRT as the easiest climbing method for me. I figured adding one nice stick to one stick would allow me to get into trees in the dark without having to throw a throw ball in the dark. It’s just my opinion but I believe this is the best one two approach out there.


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[Homebrew454]

This was my approach to this year as well. Now I just need time to hunt

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[DeadHeadSpread]

I've investigated SRT and DRT and decided they probably aren't a fit for my style hunting, even though the DRT kit is a good price point for a complete climb and descent system. I'm in good physical condition so that part isn't a worry. I just can't see myself at 5:00 am in the darkness throwing that ball up and trying to catch the right branch, then doing 50 hip thrusts up the tree In the dark, all sweaty at the end of it. Not to mention if you forget something, drop something, or gotta take a dump then you go down and then repeat the 50 hip thrusts to get back up.

 

[brydan]

Need to be clear with the messaging. It's important because conversations here influence decisions that newcomers make. That said, Mad Rock has specified that the Safeguard can be used with ropes down to 8.1mm "for rescue / rigging". They make a distinction between this type of use and "climbing". Now, the difference between these types varies widely from source to source...

Here's a good read taken from Pinnacle Arborists for folks to consider.

"Two of the most important pieces of tree gear you will ever own are your climbing rope and your rigging rope. And it is absolutely essential that you understand the difference between the two. Failing to use them for the right purposes is extremely dangerous and could result in accidents like:

• Deadly or debilitating falls
• Being struck by falling limbs

The Big Difference

The big difference between these two types of tree gear are their primary uses. Climbing rope is the rope that secures you to your saddle and to the tree as you climb up and down. It is made for this purpose and should not be used for anything else.

On the other hand, rigging rope is what you would use to lower and move heavy objects such as cut tree limbs. Again, this rope should not be used for other applications. The wear and tear on a rigging rope should not be used to support you as you climb."

Most sources make a distinction between rigging and climbing by saying that rigging ropes are used or abused in some way (this implies use in abrasive environments). The general idea is that you should never climb on a rope that's already been used for rigging.

Text from Mad Rock's site for reference:
"For rescue / rigging use: 8.1mm to 11mm rope diameter
For climbing use: 8.9mm to 11mm rope diameter"

Personally I would ignore the Aboricultural use of the term "rigging" and just stick with what Mad Rock recommends. "Rigging" as it's used in tree work is something different. This is what rigging looks like in tree work, not exactly the place for a Safeguard

 

[bj139]

Personally I would ignore the Aboricultural use of the term "rigging" and just stick with what Mad Rock recommends. "Rigging" as it's used in tree work is something different. This is what rigging looks like in tree work, not exactly the place for a Safeguard

I'm pretty sure the term rescue/rigging means non-dynamic climbing, as in not falling on it and expecting it to stop the rope. A slow steady descent would be used for rescue/rigging. I agree a safeguard would be entirely inappropriate for lowering 500 pound logs.