removing leg straps from Mantis/ adding bottom layers

[blzn04]

Part 1:
I havent received my Mantis yet, but I have been seeing some threads/ videos where people remove the leg straps once they are at hunting height. I know that they arent load bearing but are they really unnecessary to keep you in the saddle safely?

Part 2:
I dont want to start a discussion about whether I should layer before climbing. It doesnt work for me. I have the KUIU zip on/off puffy layer pants that I can put on/off without removing my boots. Assuming that the above Part 1 question is safe I am wondering why I couldnt remove the leg straps, stand upright on my platform and zip on the pants, pull them up and slide them up between the saddle and my other pants. This is just theory as I havent received my saddle yet though

 

[kyler1945]

If we told you no, it's not safe, would you reconsider putting your pants on before you climb?

 

[blzn04]

If we told you no, it's not safe, would you reconsider putting your pants on before you climb?

I probably would just tough it out lol. I have a relatively weird situation. I have a 2.5-3 mile walk to my hunting spots. So I do rather hoof it to get there. I cant sit at the base of the tree and wait til i cool off to setup because i continue to sweat for over 1-1.5hrs before i finally start getting chilly. And thats with a pretty extensive layering system of merino wool baselayers and other moisture wicking garments. Even when its below 30 degrees I am a sweaty mess with only wearing baselayers in.

I mean I think i get what you're implying. That this is one of those posts where im asking if something is OK to do, knowing damn well im going to do it anyway. But thats not the case.

My basic question would be: If its universally accepted that you dont have to wear the leg straps for safety; then why is it universally accepted that adding bottoms is NOT safe.

 

[kyler1945]

I'd be concerned for your health generally if you take over an hour to thermoregulate and stop sweating in sub or near freezing temperatures. Most "normal folks" with only a thin layer of clothes on take several minutes, maybe 20-30 tops, to cool down.

I'd look into a thick coverall or bib that zips down from the hip. If you're that hot natured, a single base layer and something like that should keep you plenty warm. Just put it on with zippers undone all the way up to the hip until you've cooled and dried. I do this a lot. I won't buy thick outer layers for pants anymore that don't fully zip from the hip.

In other news, I'm jealous of you that all of your walks are three miles. That's a hike, I wish I had more land that remote to hunt whitetails.

 

[Nutterbuster]

I don't know of anybody that changes bottoms while in the saddle. I'm apparently a "spider monkey" according to some guys, and feel fine hunting without leg loops. But I would be very uncomfortable trying to put pants on 20-30ft up.

Also can't see needing to change them in the first place. Alabama's teens and 20's aren't too terrible. I can usually walk/paddle in a light shirt and whatever pants I need to wear, and put my jacket on at height after cooling of for 15 minutes or so. My legs don't really sweat, and I don't need a lot of insulation on them. As long as I keep my upper body, head, and neck warm, I can usually get away with BDU type pants with a warm undergarment underneath them. That combo is fine to hike in, and keeps me warm.

I've also hiked in wearing athletic shorts, and put on my heavier pants at the base of the tree. But it's gotta be a long and tough hike to necessitate that. I can only think of one place off the top of my head that is a genuine, one way, 3 mile walk.

Honestly, in your situation, a small hang-on may be a better option. I'd feel more comfortable changing pants with a platform to stand on and a seat to sit on.

 

[blzn04]

I'd be concerned for your health generally if you take over an hour to thermoregulate and stop sweating in sub or near freezing temperatures. Most "normal folks" with only a thin layer of clothes on take several minutes, maybe 20-30 tops, to cool down.

I'd look into a thick coverall or bib that zips down from the hip. If you're that hot natured, a single base layer and something like that should keep you plenty warm. Just put it on with zippers undone all the way up to the hip until you've cooled and dried. I do this a lot. I won't buy thick outer layers for pants anymore that don't fully zip from the hip.

In other news, I'm jealous of you that all of your walks are three miles. That's a hike, I wish I had more land that remote to hunt whitetails.

Dont be jealous. I only walk that far because I hunt the Sam Houston National forest which is 30-45 mins from Houston(pop 2.3 million)

And I think my thermoregulaters get screwy because im getting wet with sweat. Then getting colder than I would if I hadnt gotten sweaty before climbing. The only way Ive thought to help this is to wear base layers in. Then completely change and discard the wet baselayers before climbing. but that doesnt seem fun either

 

[blzn04]

I don't know of anybody that changes bottoms while in the saddle. I'm apparently a "spider monkey" according to some guys, and feel fine hunting without leg loops. But I would be very uncomfortable trying to put pants on 20-30ft up.

Also can't see needing to change them in the first place. Alabama's teens and 20's aren't too terrible. I can usually walk/paddle in a light shirt and whatever pants I need to wear, and put my jacket on at height after cooling of for 15 minutes or so. My legs don't really sweat, and I don't need a lot of insulation on them. As long as I keep my upper body, head, and neck warm, I can usually get away with BDU type pants with a warm undergarment underneath them. That combo is fine to hike in, and keeps me warm.

I've also hiked in wearing athletic shorts, and put on my heavier pants at the base of the tree. But it's gotta be a long and tough hike to necessitate that. I can only think of one place off the top of my head that is a genuine, one way, 3 mile walk.

Honestly, in your situation, a small hang-on may be a better option. I'd feel more comfortable changing pants with a platform to stand on and a seat to sit on.

I bought a millenium m60u last yr and was killing myself getting back there. Thats why i switched to the saddle for this year. The m60u requires the slot-style tree bracket so the stand and bracket come to 16-17 pounds. not to mention climbing method. But the biggest problem is the stands size. It has a big footprint on my back and I hunt mainly pine thickets with thick underbrush(yaupon). There are several deadfalls on the "path" that i have to climb over and one that I have to belly crawl under. I know the m7 is a lot lighter and smaller but I really like the saddle especially for the 360 shooting among all the other reasons.

 

[Nutterbuster]

Dont be jealous. I only walk that far because I hunt the Sam Houston National forest which is 30-45 mins from Houston(pop 2.3 million)

And I think my thermoregulaters get screwy because im getting wet with sweat. Then getting colder than I would if I hadnt gotten sweaty before climbing. The only way Ive thought to help this is to wear base layers in. Then completely change and discard the wet baselayers before climbing. but that doesnt seem fun either

If you sweat, you've lost. End of discussion.My dad is the worst when it comes to over dressing for the walk in. He tries to get me to put on more clothes, and I'm adamant about just wearing a t-shirt in the 20's and 30's. One of us starts chilly and warms up, the other starts comfortable, overheats, cools down, and then shivers.

Not over dressing is a problem that can be solved by gear, but keeping your exertion level below the point that you sweat is a learned thing. It requires knowing your body, and going slow. 3 miles sounds far from a hunting standpoint, but it's peanuts even for dayhikers. Get conditioned in the off season, wake up early, and saunter out to your spot. Shiver the whole way, and then get toasty once you put your coat on.

 

[blzn04]

So my normal walk in during 20s-40s is a merino wool lightweight short sleeve shirt, kuiu attack pants(with hip vents and pockets open, merino wool socks and non insulated hiking boots. I dont really know how i can dress down even further than that as i dont want to have to remove my boots and change while out in the woods/ in the dark.

But i do think for sure I over exert myself with my pace. Especially on morning hunts because Im worried abt not being setup before daylight. Im always in pretty good shape during hunting season but I definitely could shed a few more pounds and work on my cardio more.

But also im thinking/ hoping that switching to the saddle will lighten my pack enough to help me not sweat as much. My full setup last yr was around 50 pounds. This year I will be around 20-25lbs.

 

[Bwhana]

I have no thermo regulators! I am either warm or hot, rarely get cold and never get cold feet, even in uninsulated rubber boots. The downside is I just broke a sweat just thinking about being hot. If it is below 30 and I have just a thin under armour base shirt on, I may make it on stand without getting soaked, otherwise it is just a part of my life.

With that said, I always put on bibs at the base of the tree before I climb, if I use them at all.

John H.

 

[kyler1945]

I have no thermo regulators! I am either warm or hot, rarely get cold and never get cold feet, even in uninsulated rubber boots. The downside is I just broke a sweat just thinking about being hot. If it is below 30 and I have just a thin under armour base shirt on, I may make it on stand without getting soaked, otherwise it is just a part of my life.

With that said, I always put on bibs at the base of the tree before I climb, if I use them at all.

John H.

Kind of where I was going to end my advice - if you're hot natured, you'll struggle not to sweat if you're hunting in texas and walking 3 miles. I'm not sure focusing on putting pants on in the tree is effective. You've got 3 major variables you should focus on (your ability to thermoregulate, temperature of your hunting ground, and distance/exertion to hunt there). The minor variable of whether you're wearing an extra layer climbing for five minutes sounds like it doesn't move the needle.

I'm skinny but I'm hairy and I sweat a lot. However, if it is below 60 degrees, I can walk pretty much any distance and climb and not sweat profusely. It's about dressing down, cardio, and keeping exertion low. I also usually don't hunt more than 1-1.5 miles in. If I do, I'm usually just fine with sitting on ass for a half hour before I climb a tree.

 

[Xtreme007]

I think you could put the pants on no problem since they zip and go over boots. Once setup you could start the pants over boots and pull up to knees. Then tighten up your tether some so your standing more straight on platform. Slide your saddle up on your lower back and pull pants up. Then just slide saddle down and set your tether back where you want it.

 

[EricS]

I don’t deal with much real cold weather. I have added rain pants several times in the tree. It isn’t that hard. I stay tethered but add my linesman’s belt for balance.

 

[sureshotscott]

If you were wanting to disconnect the saddle up in the tree to adjust bottom layers, I would think some of these items would facilitate doing it safely:

https://onrope1.com/chest-harnesses/

I had the same kind of questions when I got started. Turns out, when I actually hunted with the saddle I sweated a tiny fraction of what I was used to, because I was carrying so much less weight. Between the weight loss, and deliberately hiking while stripped down to ALMOST nothing, sweating was greatly reduced.

But I ain't in Texas, so good luck.

 

[huntin_addict]

I probably would just tough it out lol. I have a relatively weird situation. I have a 2.5-3 mile walk to my hunting spots. So I do rather hoof it to get there. I cant sit at the base of the tree and wait til i cool off to setup because i continue to sweat for over 1-1.5hrs before i finally start getting chilly. And thats with a pretty extensive layering system of merino wool baselayers and other moisture wicking garments. Even when its below 30 degrees I am a sweaty mess with only wearing baselayers in.

I mean I think i get what you're implying. That this is one of those posts where im asking if something is OK to do, knowing damn well im going to do it anyway. But thats not the case.

My basic question would be: If its universally accepted that you dont have to wear the leg straps for safety; then why is it universally accepted that adding bottoms is NOT safe.

Just so I can add a differing opinion, it is not universally accepted that you don't have to wear the leg straps for safety, as it is MY opinion that one SHOULD wear them for safety. Put myself in a position last year where I can assure you the leg straps were definitely performing a function.

 

[Sziggy2.0]

Just so I can add a differing opinion, it is not universally accepted that you don't have to wear the leg straps for safety, as it is MY opinion that one SHOULD wear them for safety. Put myself in a position last year where I can assure you the leg straps were definitely performing a function.

Would you mind elaborating alittle bit more about the position you put yourself in, in the hope's us newbies could hopefully avoid doing the same.

 

[huntin_addict]

Im lefty, buck came in from my 10 o'clock, heading towards my 6 o'clock. Using a ROS, I stepped over my left foot with my right to face him instead of turning around. Was following the deer and ended up almost laying sideways, literally starting to slide out of my saddle. Leg straps did exactly what they were supposed to do and supported me. Alot of guys here (read: majority) will tell you leg straps aren't necessary. As I stated before, in my opinion they have a function and a purpose.

 

[sdonx]

Blzn04 is only removing the leg straps to add a layer. And he could reattach them. Standing on a platform or a ros with a tether, He is fine. Let him cool down as he wishes without changing his life/ speed/ health....lol. I have been debating the keep or do without legstraps. Its a legitimate debate. I’m keeping this coming year as Im still a newbie.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[enkriss]

Without the leg straps the Mantis is going to ride up. And probably be ultra uncomfortable

 

[Mag1]

I haven’t tried changing pants in a saddle, don’t think I want to try. I sweat easy as well. Normally I wear in what I’m going to wear on my bottoms. Usually in a cotton or merino tshirt no matter what the temp. Once I get to my tree, I’ll swap a soaked shirt for a dry one. Back in the mid 90’s, I’d walk in 2 miles in a t-shirt at -20*F, and still change my shirt out when I got close to where I was hunting. I did the same this year, boat in 4.5 miles, portage 80ft, 1/2 mile hike after that in marsh grass/catails, get sticks set up, saddle up, then swap shirt up in the tree. It took some getting used to adding various layer on top in the tree, but doable.

Maybe if you can pull up one leg 1st, with only one leg strap on, while having the other most of the way up, then hook the other leg strap up, in do the other, shimmy your pants up, re hook other leg strap? Not sure if it can be done or not.

I’d go in as light as I could, after setting first stick, put on your outer pant layer, climb up, settle, after cooling down the rest of the way, change top base layer to a dry top, then layer up the rest of your top gear. Not sure what else to do.