Rope retrieval after rappel- prussic problem

[LockStock&Arrow]

I find it just about as comparable snapping a trout’s head back when breaking it’s neck to kill it to the amount you have to move a safeguard to start any journey down. At least the one I own , you arnt accidentally nudging the lever.

Safeguard and a friction knot of your choice off of your hip lineman’s loop and be done with it as far as I am concerned.

550 cord pull down located behind the knot on the delta. Should pull down fine .

 

[mattsteg]

I don't know people's level of experience, but I know mine and I feel very comfortable with my time in a tree climbing, both hunting and otherwise. I trust my skills and my level of safety. I also know many climbing professionals in the arborist industry and I can't think of a singe one of them who would say "the only way to tie off is a [specific] hitch" (not that any of them are using a grigri).

No doubt it makes sense if I am belaying a climber (as the grigri is designed to do), but for RADS/SRT style climbing there is literally nothing dangerous about tying a stopper knot vs a mule hitch. Worst case is a very mild inconvenience and to portray it as a safety issue is a more than a bit ridiculous.

The big issue (and the reason why I and others have become somewhat skittish about sharing setup details) is the people going from zero to copying some guy's setup on youtube.

I don't really want to share anything outside of 100% best practices, or anything that could be misconstrued as outside of best practices (e.g. I'm reluctant to show my grivel plume twin-gate in photos...because it looks like a wiregate which would be a disastrously bad choice). Your choice of a stopper may well be part of a safe and well-accepted approach...but maybe someone copies it without understanding what they need to do to make it so.

Seeing the trickle of serious falls come in on the FB groups has given me some serious pause about sharing anything that I do in any way that could be misunderstood.

Which absolutely sucks as it means that (by not posting my setup) I'm not in as favorable of a position to receive good safety feedback from guys (like @Vtbow ) who are a lot more experienced than I am.

 

[mattsteg]

I find it just about as comparable snapping a trout’s head back when breaking it’s neck to kill it to the amount you have to move a safeguard to start any journey down. At least the one I own , you arnt accidentally nudging the lever.

Safeguard and a friction knot of your choice off of your hip lineman’s loop and be done with it as far as I am concerned.

550 cord pull down located behind the knot on the delta. Should pull down fine .

FWIW I've had behind the knot result in the "climb of shame" on (for example) a big, burly oak due to bark friction, but clipping the cord on the other side of the link gave a nice easy pull-down. Of course you're more vulnerable to knot/link snagging with that route.

 

[TreeMunkie]

There is a very specific way to do this using a mule hitch that holds the brake strand in the brake position, and is releasable under weight. Everyone really needs to read or look at their grigri manual or tech tips on the petzl site...

Ok @Vtbow, this makes sense. The Mule can be released under pressure where the Alpine butterfly cannot.
I learned something useful from this thread. Question, though, in videos I've found the Mule is usually tied with a Munter. Is the Munter necessary for tying off below a Safeguard or similar device? It doesn't seem like it would in this application.

 

[Vtbow]

Ok @Vtbow, this makes sense. The Mule can be released under pressure where the Alpine butterfly cannot.
I learned something useful from this thread. Question, though, in videos I've found the Mule is usually tied with a Munter. Is the Munter necessary for tying off below a Safeguard or similar device? It doesn't seem like it would in this application.

Glad it helped someone. You are correct. Not required with this type of device.

 

[TreeMunkie]

And I learned it in just 10 minutes

 

[mattsteg]

Glad it helped someone. You are correct. Not required with this type of device.

If you're comfortable commenting, what would be your feedback for safeguard use? In particular for going hands-free in the safest fashion.

 

[Vtbow]

If you're comfortable commenting, what would be your feedback for safeguard use? In particular for going hands-free in the safest fashion.

sent you a pm.

 

[bj139]

Just because you can get out of the situation doesn't mean you should put yourself in the situation to begin with...Jeez what kind of reasoning is this???...Why when there is a PROPER way to tie it off???

I mean, this is like bringing a 50m rope to a rappel you know you're going to need a 60m rope for and then saying "It's ok, I"ll have a bunch of pro with me, I"ll just build an anchor and setup another rappel station"

I once forgot my boots on my from porch when I drove to hunt. I just made do with what I had an hunted in my sneakers. Haven't you ever used what you had to make something work or do you just quit and go home? I always try to think ahead about what could go wrong and have extra gear if needed but I try not to quit until I get the absolute perfect configuration.

 

[Vtbow]

I once forgot my boots on my from porch when I drove to hunt. I just made do with what I had an hunted in my sneakers. Haven't you ever used what you had to make something work or do you just quit and go home? I always try to think ahead about what could go wrong and have extra gear if needed but I try not to quit until I get the absolute perfect configuration.

That's not the point. Using your example to make the point: You're sitting in your truck and have BOTH your sneakers and hunting boots. It's raining and cold, and you say, I'm going to wear my sneakers knowing you'll be cold and wet just because you don't feel like changing your boots, and you KNOW your boots are a better choice AND have the option. Is the terrain slippery? would the extra support from a taller piece of footwear keep you from potentially twisting your ankle? Are they snake boots? Did you just put yourself in additional danger by making that decision, even though there is a low percentage chance you twist your ankle badly or get bitten by a snake Maybe. That's a variable you can't control. Putting your boots on instead of your shoes was one you could.

Obviously if you end up in a situation having not made a conscious decision to potentially put yourself in that situation you do whatever you can with what you have to safely get yourself out of it of it.

And that is the last I comment I am going to make on this thread.

 

[SNIPERBBB]

Joe of NY saddle hunters posted a video a few weeks back using a swaibish over top of the Grigri+
Especially useful for to keep it from sliding down if you unweight it. Slightly more awkward when you descend as you've gotta pull down on the hitch while pulling the lever on the Grigri.

 

[bj139]

That's not the point. Using your example to make the point: You're sitting in your truck and have BOTH your sneakers and hunting boots. It's raining and cold, and you say, I'm going to wear my sneakers knowing you'll be cold and wet just because you don't feel like changing your boots, and you KNOW your boots are a better choice AND have the option. Is the terrain slippery? would the extra support from a taller piece of footwear keep you from potentially twisting your ankle? Are they snake boots? Did you just put yourself in additional danger by making that decision, even though there is a low percentage chance you twist your ankle badly or get bitten by a snake Maybe. That's a variable you can't control. Putting your boots on instead of your shoes was one you could.

Obviously if you end up in a situation having not made a conscious decision to potentially put yourself in that situation you do whatever you can with what you have to safely get yourself out of it of it.

And that is the last I comment I am going to make on this thread.

OK. Maybe I missed the point about having multiple options. Sorry. I would use the best option if it was available.
If I only had Crocs I would use them as a last resort.