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Ropeman 1 Failure

Nutterbuster

Nutterbuster

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I don't wanna stir worms, but I do just want to stick this info out there while I have it. This is a link to the oft-referenced article about how a ropeman 1 fails, and a screenshot of the most relevant page I found.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/crr_pdf/2001/crr01364.pdf

Not saying use it or don't use it. Just putting the info out while it's fresh on my mind. The horse is getting flogged to ribbons in a Facebook post right now.
 

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we have been talking about this for years, this exact thing. whats the date on these tests? is this new information?


BTW I'm glad I don't have Facebook
 
ImThere said:
we have been talking about this for years, this exact thing. whats the date on these tests? is this new information?


BTW I'm glad I don't have Facebook
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Like I said, not trying to beat the horse myself. I've just seen the test mentioned repeatedly, but rarely seen it linked. Apologies if it's out there prominently and I overlooked it.

I commit sins way worse than a ropeman. :)
 
My safety police days are over. The pension sucks.

Discussed pretty extensively here: https://saddlehunter.com/community/index.php?threads/ropeman-safety.3530/

It's enough for me to use the improved design Ropeman 2 and go through the great trouble of sourcing a compatible rope, but that's just me and I don't follow the fall factor rule to T. I figure through if Wild Country is willing to keep it in production and ship it downstream likely knowing its intended use it can't be that risky.
 
@elk yinzer and @Vtbow, thanks for the links. I checked the thread elk linked in particular, and while post 64 has a screenshot of the same page I provided, it's buried and there is no link to the article in the first 12 pages of 16. Maybe having consolidated info will help someone.
 
elk yinzer said:
My safety police days are over. The pension sucks.

Discussed pretty extensively here: https://saddlehunter.com/community/index.php?threads/ropeman-safety.3530/

It's enough for me to use the improved design Ropeman 2 and go through the great trouble of sourcing a compatible rope, but that's just me and I don't follow the fall factor rule to T. I figure through if Wild Country is willing to keep it in production and ship it downstream likely knowing its intended use it can't be that risky.
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as discussed previously :) The thing is, its not THEIR intended use. ITs technically an ascender, meaning it is not regularly used int the EXACT SAME 14 inches or so of the rope as it is on a tether.
 
oh, and @Nutterbuster the report you linked is what the tables and info I posted from mountain project were referenced from.... so there's continuity!
 
I read that this way: The ropeman didn't fail. Rather the rope failed. That because the ropeman 1 has teeth that are too large so they stripped the sheath from the rope and cut into the rope causing it to fail. Solution: don't use junk @ss rope when you're life is on the line.

Besides- their entire test case is a farce. The Ropeman is an ASCENDER, not a fall arrest device. So yea - no surprise it failed when tested in that capacity. That is not the use case prescribed by the manufacturer.
 
ThePreBanMan said:
I read that this way: The ropeman didn't fail. Rather the rope failed. That because the ropeman 1 has teeth that are too large so they stripped the sheath from the rope and cut into the rope causing it to fail. Solution: don't use junk @ss rope when you're life is on the line.
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As far as "junk @ss rope" being the issue, you couldnt be more off. sure using crappy rope is going to fail sooner, but this was a professional climbing industry test, they didnt go to walmart and grab something off the shelf. They used Beal, Edelrid and Marlow. All extremely respected manufactures in the climbing, rescue and mountaineering industry.
ThePreBanMan said:
Besides- their entire test case is a farce. The Ropeman is an ASCENDER, not a fall arrest device. So yea - no surprise it failed when tested in that capacity. That is not the use case prescribed by the manufacturer.
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Exactly. that is the whole point. It is not really being used as designed in the saddle world. The tether is a fall restraint/arrest device, not an ascension setup. if there is slack in your system and you fall, test is applicable. if your tether is hitched around the trunk of a tree with some sort of slip style knot, you fall, and it slips down the trunk at all, then restricts enough to catch you, the test is applicable.

I'm done debating this. It can fail, if it does, it is not being used as designed, period. A backup below it wont help in a catastrophic failure and it cuts the rope, only a mechanical failure where it jams open. A correct "backup" above it becomes the primary and negates the ropeman all together, so whats the point.
 
I was just about to buy the Ropeman 1. 4 kN is about 900 lbs. In a fall, can a 200lb person generate that? Should I buy the Ropeman 2 instead?
 
From Wild Country - the manufacturer of the Ropeman.
"The Ropeman 1 has recently been upgraded with forged sideplates for increased strength, less weight and an even better fit. Ideal for self rescue, prussiking, pulleys and mouflage, the list of uses for these small but perfectly formed devices is endless."

They ARE NOT designed for fall arrest. Most saddle hunters use them for prussiking. If you don't use them properly, you could definitely get hurt. If you allow slack in your tether, you're introducing a situation where the Ropeman could act as a fall arrest device. That's why you NEVER put slack in your tether. They're no different than your saddle, your climbing method, and your truck that you drove to the woods. If you use any of those incorrectly, you could kill yourself.

Anytime you leave the ground you are taking your life in your hands. You should only use gear you trust. If you don't trust a Ropeman, or a carabiner, or a piece of rope 100%, don't use it.
 
bj139 said:
I was just about to buy the Ropeman 1. 4 kN is about 900 lbs. In a fall, can a 200lb person generate that? Should I buy the Ropeman 2 instead?
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3.5 feet is how far a 200 pound person has to fall to generate 900lbs. A 10' fall will generate 2200lbs.....
 
bj139 said:
I was just about to buy the Ropeman 1. 4 kN is about 900 lbs. In a fall, can a 200lb person generate that? Should I buy the Ropeman 2 instead?
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Yes they could but shouldn’t while hanging. Climbing is a different story. I’ve seen several one stick videos where people tether in and climb up several feet before moving their tether. If you keep the slack out of a system it is plenty strong but nit many people tend their slack while standing in a multi step aider. We should but we feel safe because we are tethered.
 
I introduce slack to my tether quite frequently. I have switched from using a ropeman2, which should be fine anyway, to a micro prusik. On my tether I very rarely make an adjustment once set so it works just fine. I still use my ropeman on on my lineman's belt because I adjust it with much more regularity.
 
denots said:
I introduce slack to my tether quite frequently. I have switched from using a ropeman2, which should be fine anyway, to a micro prusik. On my tether I very rarely make an adjustment once set so it works just fine. I still use my ropeman on on my lineman's belt because I adjust it with much more regularity.
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I had decided on the same setup. I am still learning. How long should the rope for my lineman's belt be?
 
g2outdoors said:
From Wild Country - the manufacturer of the Ropeman.
"The Ropeman 1 has recently been upgraded with forged sideplates for increased strength, less weight and an even better fit. Ideal for self rescue, prussiking, pulleys and mouflage, the list of uses for these small but perfectly formed devices is endless."
Click to expand...

Forged sideplates should not change the method of failure, which is severing of the rope. Unless somehow a "better fit" changed the angle of the teeth or something. Maybe? I think it's a stretch. The second sentence in that quote is marketing speak.

I agree 100% with the rest of your post. Do your research, and use your equipment properly.

The main reason I brought this back up was awareness. "Not having slack in your tether" is kinda like "I always use a harness with my treestand." I can think of several videos off the top of my head where folks are introducing slack into a ropeman, and a linemans belt is almost impossible to keep slack out of.

I use one myself, because it's convenient and I'm lazy. I also don't always buckle my seatbelt when I drive to the gas station by my house to pickup beer and shiners for the weekend.

Know the risks, make the call. That's all. :)
 
Most tires and brakes are not rated for driving on ice either. Back to regularily scheduled programing.
 
I agree @Nutterbuster

And the side plates thing... That was just a copy paste. The point was to show that it's NOT a fall arrest item.

And slack is kind of a loaded term...it's IMPOSSIBLE to say I never have slack in my tether. What I want to avoid is many feet of slack. A few inches here or there isn't going to do anything.

I've taken 4-5 "falls" over the last 10 years with 3 of those happening in the last 2 seasons using risky climbing methods. Two of them were last season with WE steps and a Knaider/Swaider. My lineman belt/ropeman caught me both times when the step shifted under my weight. It was totally my fault since I was using the steps outside of their designed purpose in the dark with DIY gear.

The third was a gaff out with spurs, which I consider the most risky climbing method. I was tethered in before I climbed onto a DIY platform. It shifted and I slipped. My tether/ropeman caught me instantly.

There are definitely some drawbacks to the gear we use. I like your point about seat belts. I don't always wear mine either :)



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