Ropeman vs prusik

[MShunter2022]

New to saddle hunting and I was curious the pros and cons to the Tethrd ropeman vs the prusik knot? Is either one more reliable than the other?

 

[raisins]

There's a lot of rope hitches that people often like over a prusik. I like the distel hitch.

I've never tried a ropeman, but I know the distel hitch is a lot cheaper and I feel safer on it. Something about less moving parts and how strong rope is and not likely to catastrophically fail in this use. If you use 2 ropes that work well together, several rope friction hitches work so well that I can't see a ropeman being much better.

 

[bigmike23]

Ropeman is the gold standard. Prusiks aren't bad at all, but still not as easy and smooth as a RM

 

[NMSbowhunter]

The pros for the Ropeman are it is compact, the cons are that they are expensive compared to a knot, but if you are not 100% sure of your knot tying abilities, the Ropeman is more of a sure thing. as long as you use it on ropes within spec.

I have and use both. For a knot I prefer a Distel hitch or a Swabish over a prussic knot.

 

[liv2hnt]

I have tried several hitches, as well as the Ropeman and the Kong Duck on my lineman and tether. I prefer the Kong Duck because of my 8mm Rope. Hitches work and work well, but I prefer the easy adjustment and more of a one hand operation the ascenders give me.

 

[bfriendly]

Ropeman for me with prussik backup….switching to Michoacán over prussik for easier tending

 

[BTaylor]

I prefer friction hitches over adding more metal to the system.

 

[BowhunterXC]

I use the 2TC climbing method and have a Ropeman 1 on both tether lines. It's easier to take up the slack and a one-handed operation for loosening up the rope.

Pro: A prusik knot works great for taking up slack.
Con: A prusik knot requires 2 hands to release the tension.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Pros to ropeman is it’s small. It keeps you tight to the tether. It allows easy one handed operation.
Negatives to the ropeman. #1 it costs a lot more than tying a friction hitch and 2 to 3 times more than buying a sewn hitch. It’s metal so it adds weight and noise potential. Another HUGE negative that is rarely mentioned, is if you have a fall on a ropeman, it’s likely it causes a failure because it damages the rope. The break point on a ropeman is 1100 lbs of force. Is that an extreme fall? Yes, but could it happen. I used to use one on my tether, because I don’t allow slack into my tether (at least not enough to get any substantial force) but I would never ever use a ropeman on my lineman’s rope. People slip, stand offs bend. And I want my lineman’s rope to be strong enough to withstand that dynamic event without failure.

there are better friction hitch options that can be utilized with a prusik tender to get one handed operation on your tether or lineman’s rope. Hitches such as a Schwabisch hitch, or a Michoacán are both stronger and lighter than a ropeman and they both tend and lengthen easily enough to get one handed operation.

a third very strong safe option is the tether made by aerohunter. They are using austrialpin belt frame buckles on tubular webbing. The weak point in that system is 15kN which is 3 times the strength of the ropeman and it is very very easy to take up and to adjust. The only negative yo this tether is the potential for noise if it’s unweighted. Also webbing isn’t as fray resistant as rope so you might have to replace the tether a little earlier than a rope tether

 

[raisins]

The pros for the Ropeman are it is compact, the cons are that they are expensive compared to a knot, but if you are not 100% sure of your knot tying abilities, the Ropeman is more of a sure thing. as long as you use it on ropes within spec.

I have and use both. For a knot I prefer a Distel hitch or a Swabish over a prussic knot.

I disagree that a ropeman is more reliable than a friction hitch....way more anecdotes here about non-harming mishaps with them than with rope hitches.

Also, under enough force, the ropeman can take the sheaths right off your rope.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Good post.

Ropemans were never intended to do what saddle hunters use them for. I believe they are belay devices to be used on the ground as you help a rock climber.

In contrast, friction hitches were designed to do what saddle hunters use them for.

Rope man’s are essentially rope grabs. They are intended to hold your position on a rope for ascending. They can be used to descend but it requires two of them and it’s a pain. They are never intended to be used for fall arresting. Hence there should never be any slack in the system or any capability of a dynamic event (any fall over a couple of inches)… I mean our use does sort of line up with their intended use but only if they are constantly kept tight with zero slack. They cannot arrest a fall whereas a true belay device such as a safeguard or gri gri plus, are actually rated for some fall arresting force capability, however not to the extent of a slack system on a static line. There is a big difference in falling with 100’ of dynamic rope, falling with a belayer that jumps before you hit the end of your rope to help slow your fall, and what we as saddle hunters often use them for (here’s looking at you one stick climbers again lol)

 

[raisins]

Rope man’s are essentially rope grabs. They are intended to hold your position on a rope for ascending. They can be used to descend but it requires two of them and it’s a pain. They are never intended to be used for fall arresting. Hence there should never be any slack in the system or any capability of a dynamic event (any fall over a couple of inches)… I mean our use does sort of line up with their intended use but only if they are constantly kept tight with zero slack. They cannot arrest a fall whereas a true belay device such as a safeguard or gri gri plus, are actually rated for some fall arresting force capability, however not to the extent of a slack system on a static line. There is a big difference in falling with 100’ of dynamic rope, falling with a belayer that jumps before you hit the end of your rope to help slow your fall, and what we as saddle hunters often use them for (here’s looking at you one stick climbers again lol)

Good deal....maybe I'm thinking the Safeguard then as far as a repurposed belay device (?).

 

[bigmike23]

People constantly talk about what ifs when it comes to ropemans, and yet I have never on this forum nor any other for that matter seen them pop up in reality. I won't harp on it much as I understand it's our lives we're talking and it's fine to take whatever precautions you want. But the product is proven and beyond reliable.

 

[raisins]

People constantly talk about what ifs when it comes to ropemans, and yet I have never on this forum nor any other for that matter seen them pop up in reality. I won't harp on it much as I understand it's our lives we're talking and it's fine to take whatever precautions you want. But the product is proven and beyond reliable.

There was a post not long ago about someone using a ropeman and a bit of user error/happenstance caused it to go to the end of their tether and only their stopper knot saved them. Before that, someone was using it on a lineman's lanyard with a protective sheath around the lanyard and that sheath got in the ropeman and made it almost slide off. Those are 2 I remember off the top of my head that were both posted here. Ease of user error factors into all this for me.

I reject the idea that speculating about events before they happen is somehow not useful for decision making (that's my paraphrase of what you wrote). It is totally justified to look at something before anything bad has happened and then allow your understanding of it to guide your decisions. Otherwise, we are digging into the whole trial and error thing more than needed.

 

[Still Kicking]

Do a lot of research and use whatever makes you confident. I would be fine with a Schwabisch, Ropeman, Kong Duck, or CT Roll-N-Lock. I've used them all and primarily use the Schwabisch because it's non metal quiet and reliable and I am comfortable with it. Bottom line is: whatever you decide to use understand how it works and it's limitations.

 

[HuumanCreed]

I use a prusik on the main tether but use a Kong Duck on my linesman rope. This is because TO ME ropes hold better but mechanicals are easier to adjust. You should not be adjusting your tether much once you find your setting, but you would be adjusting a lot for linesman rope. Plus you can convert your linesman rope into a foot adscender for SRT setup without more purchase.

 

[NimbleTimbo]

I was one of those who had an oh crap moment when I went to release the RM on a tether while on a platform and ended up at my stopper knot. I guess I didn't realize I was still leaning and under tension and when it released I about soiled myself. Always use a stopper knot! I will say this happened during my first year saddle hunting, and it definitely was user error. That's why it's so important to practice anything you decide to use at ground level until it's a skill (second nature/muscle memory, don't have to think about it hardly).

I started with RM, went to Kong Duck because it was more in spec for 8mm rope. The Kong is a little quieter IMO. Now I hunt off a MR Safeguard or a Kong but I'll switching things more and more toward hitches as I get more confident with tying knots and hitches.

 

[raisins]

I was one of those who had an oh crap moment when I went to release the RM on a tether while on a platform and ended up at my stopper knot. I guess I didn't realize I was still leaning and under tension and when it released I about soiled myself. Always use a stopper knot! I will say this happened during my first year saddle hunting, and it definitely was user error. That's why it's so important to practice anything you decide to use at ground level until it's a skill (second nature/muscle memory, don't have to think about it hardly).

I started with RM, went to Kong Duck because it was more in spec for 8mm rope. The Kong is a little quieter IMO. Now I hunt off a MR Safeguard or a Kong but I'll switching things more and more toward hitches as I get more confident with tying knots and hitches.

did you start a thread here about your incident? if so, it might be the one i reference, if not...add another shrimp to the barbie

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I was one of those who had an oh crap moment when I went to release the RM on a tether while on a platform and ended up at my stopper knot. I guess I didn't realize I was still leaning and under tension and when it released I about soiled myself. Always use a stopper knot! I will say this happened during my first year saddle hunting, and it definitely was user error. That's why it's so important to practice anything you decide to use at ground level until it's a skill (second nature/muscle memory, don't have to think about it hardly).

I started with RM, went to Kong Duck because it was more in spec for 8mm rope. The Kong is a little quieter IMO. Now I hunt off a MR Safeguard or a Kong but I'll switching things more and more toward hitches as I get more confident with tying knots and hitches.

One of the most recent saddle hunting injury/deaths being investigated involves a slip where no stopper knot was in place. No matter what you use on a tether always use a stopper knot and always check to verify that it’s tied and securely in place with a little tail just in case…. I also know a guy who was using a ropeman and released it while under load. He slid 3.5’ out and the stopper knot is all that kept him attached as well

 

[raisins]

did you start a thread here about your incident? if so, it might be the one i reference, if not...add another shrimp to the barbie

To be fair, a rope hitch can have mishaps....the primary one is you get in the bad habit of adjusting the rope by grabbing the hitch (instead of grabbing the rope in front of the hitch)...you start to fall and your natural instinct is to keep your death grip....or you start to slip or fall and you reach out and grab the hitch (making matters worse)