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Rules for a reason

woodsdog2

woodsdog2

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
8,158
Check out this article about a fallen Game Warden. Alot of things come to mind and you can certainly empathize with all parties involved. At the end of the day; however, if the rules were followed in the first place, none of this would have ever happened. It goes to show you how our decisions as human beings can have a ripple effect for ages and generations to come. I'd be interested in your thoughts about the situation, the sentencing and if you even agree with me or not. Thanks for checking it out:

The Night a Deer Poacher Became a Warden Killer | MeatEater Conservation (themeateater.com)
 
Can honestly say I've had nothing but great experiences with wardens. Even had a few let me in on some big bucks they saw around the area. One warden who looks identical to Andy Reid, was fascinated with my 460 Magnum pistol at the range one day. After he checked my license he and I must have bs for over a half hr over it.
I bumped into another after a day of scouting and told him how often I'm out in the woods. He gave me his card and asked me to keep a lookout because of how stretched thin PA wardens are.
 
I have mixed feelings about it all. At first I felt like the sentence was fair because the kid stayed and tried to help. Then I thought about the second and third hits… when the officer is already down, to take 2 more swings is beyond necessary. Obviously the first swing is far beyond necessary but follow ups go beyond.
 
I feel like the sentence was too light. Yes, he did stay and render aid however he assaulted the officer with a weapon and struck him repeatedly.
All of my dealings with game wardens have been positive, and I’ve dealt with them in several states.
I feel like that interaction between the warden and that fella was an intersection in time, one of those points in your life where you look back and think, that was a branch in my life and what woulda happened if I chose the other path?
 
I know, what a dichotomy of thoughts and situations. It really bothers me because I can see both sides so clearly, how rage can get the best of us sometimes and how a simple assumption can mean your death nell.
 
I of course get angry sometimes, but if you can become enraged to the point you'd kill someone for something so minor (where you are in the wrong no less) I can't say I see your side or empathize with you. The specifics here like grabbing the flashlight when the opportunity presented itself and hitting the warden repeatedly don't strike me as impulsive.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
I just think what a waste of a good man's life and a tragedy for his family and for what? a stupid deer. I look at these type of situations kinda like the high speed chases over an expired registration or some other bs minor offense. 100 mph chase that ends up killing a mother and child in a crosswalk or some other innocent people. Wardens shouldn't put there lives at stake in these types of situations. When he responded he could have given chase until he got their plate # and a description of the vehicle then returned to the scene of the crime to gather whatever other evidence he could. Follow those leads up the next day and he probably still could have got a conviction and most of these type of idiots can't keep their mouths shut anyway and brag to at least 1 or 2 other people about it. Especially with fb and other social media nowadays. As for the sentence,I think he was damn lucky to get off so easy especially since it was not only murder but murder of a law officer. As I said. All this over a friggin deer? Come on man!
 
I have some mixed feelings on the matter. Intoxicated and scarred is no excuse for killing someone, let alone an officer. And we are all aware of cases where people have spent a lot more time behind bars for much lesser crimes. I feel like the kid got off too easy. At the same time, I’m not really sure prison does a whole lot of good by anyone. This was after all a kid. There’s not a lot in the way of rehabilitation or other services in prison that help convicted people to understand what they’ve done or to really learn and grow from the situation. It’s basically the old: take a timeout and think about what you’ve done. So, we put a whole slew of people together who’ve all made some really bad choices and hope maybe they will magically fix themselves or eachother… I’m not sure how that can ever work out for the best. It actually appears to be a recipe for taking a kid who made a big mistake and training him to become a serious criminal. I dont know what the right answer is.

I also want to give credit to the officer for not approaching the kids poaching with para military force. Which is another reason I feel dismayed by the kids actions. I’d much prefer to see officers who treat everyone with kindness and respect and don’t go in guns blazing. And after hearing stories like
This you can understand why so many law enforcement officers keep one hand on a gun.

i Wonder what ever happened to that kid…
 
Jammintree said:
I have some mixed feelings on the matter. Intoxicated and scarred is no excuse for killing someone, let alone an officer. And we are all aware of cases where people have spent a lot more time behind bars for much lesser crimes. I feel like the kid got off too easy. At the same time, I’m not really sure prison does a whole lot of good by anyone. This was after all a kid. There’s not a lot in the way of rehabilitation or other services in prison that help convicted people to understand what they’ve done or to really learn and grow from the situation. It’s basically the old: take a timeout and think about what you’ve done. So, we put a whole slew of people together who’ve all made some really bad choices and hope maybe they will magically fix themselves or eachother… I’m not sure how that can ever work out for the best. It actually appears to be a recipe for taking a kid who made a big mistake and training him to become a serious criminal. I dont know what the right answer is.

I also want to give credit to the officer for not approaching the kids poaching with para military force. Which is another reason I feel dismayed by the kids actions. I’d much prefer to see officers who treat everyone with kindness and respect and don’t go in guns blazing. And after hearing stories like
This you can understand why so many law enforcement officers keep one hand on a gun.

i Wonder what ever happened to that kid…
Click to expand...
Yes would be nice to know the rest of the story.
 
Can you imagine the pulse of the local community? The kid was one of only 10 survivors of a plane crash a few years before and was probably looked upon as a local hero and then he goes and kills the GW?? My uncle was a Police Officer, some of my best friends are cops. I work hand in hand with LE every day of my life.... for some reason this story makes you wonder about a lot of things.
 
This was just a terrible situation all around. I think the kid did get too light a sentence. I can also see why the officer did what he did. This was the early 70's in what I am assuming was a small rural town. I doubt most people locked their doors at night. Unfortunately, this is one of those cases that becomes a case study of what went wrong. I'm sure the lessons learned have saved the lives of wardens and civilians alike since then. I have had very few encounters with game wardens but can say they were professional and fair. I remember once where we called the warden to investigate a poacher on our hunting lease and he asked us to stay with him until backup arrived. I didn't blame him one-bit because he suspected the trespassers were doing a drug cook out on a cutover on the club. The one difference in a game warden vs a regular police officer is that a warden can pretty much guarantee that everyone he stops has some sort of weapon with them and they are usually in a remote area. It's probably one of the riskier jobs in law enforcement.
 
Death! That's the sentence he imposed on the warden / father /son/ husband,/brother that night on the side of the road. WHY? Because he was mad and drunk.What a horrible precedent to set. Why not just ask him to apologize. I'm sure the whole ordeal was disturbing and inconvenient for him. NO EXCUSE! Where's the respect for authority. They F'ed up and got caught deal with that. AWOL start there. He told his accomplices we would "show that son of a bitch". Had the where with all to AMBUSH a law enforcement officer when he had the chance. WAITING for a good time to strike. IT's not about the deer. Disrespect and entitlement are a slippery slope.
 
Jammintree said:
I have some mixed feelings on the matter. Intoxicated and scarred is no excuse for killing someone, let alone an officer. And we are all aware of cases where people have spent a lot more time behind bars for much lesser crimes. I feel like the kid got off too easy. At the same time, I’m not really sure prison does a whole lot of good by anyone. This was after all a kid. There’s not a lot in the way of rehabilitation or other services in prison that help convicted people to understand what they’ve done or to really learn and grow from the situation. It’s basically the old: take a timeout and think about what you’ve done. So, we put a whole slew of people together who’ve all made some really bad choices and hope maybe they will magically fix themselves or eachother… I’m not sure how that can ever work out for the best. It actually appears to be a recipe for taking a kid who made a big mistake and training him to become a serious criminal. I dont know what the right answer is.

I also want to give credit to the officer for not approaching the kids poaching with para military force. Which is another reason I feel dismayed by the kids actions. I’d much prefer to see officers who treat everyone with kindness and respect and don’t go in guns blazing. And after hearing stories like
This you can understand why so many law enforcement officers keep one hand on a gun.

i Wonder what ever happened to that kid…
Click to expand...
He was 24 years old. At what age do you start holding people responsible for their actions.
 
It would be interesting to hear from the judge on this one. Before we as readers come to form strong conclusions there are several matters we should learn more about. Being a survivor of a plane crash is no small deal, especially when he was just a kid at the time. Also, it would be good to know more about being AWOL from the navy. Inquiring into both of these facets could lead our perspectives into several very different directions.
 
Jammintree said:
It would be interesting to hear from the judge on this one. Before we as readers come to form strong conclusions there are several matters we should learn more about. Being a survivor of a plane crash is no small deal, especially when he was just a kid at the time. Also, it would be good to know more about being AWOL from the navy. Inquiring into both of these facets could lead our perspectives into several very different directions.
Click to expand...
I agree it is important to get all the facts before forming an opinion, there are always mitigating circumstances to situations that would/could lead one into a different awareness and therefore different approach regarding opinions or actions. It would be interesting to know how this guy used his fortunate break to better himself or others. Hopefully he didn't squander his opportunity and just continue to make bad decisions.
 
I usually refrain from commenting on things like this. I am not a game warden. But as an officer I’ve buried more than a few of my colleagues. Met the fatherless children, know the widows, have seen first hand how their lives are impacted afterward, seen the funerals, and even been at the autopsies. There is no excuse for the actions. The sentence was light and should have been nothing less than life without parole….
 
Petrichor said:
I usually refrain from commenting on things like this. I am not a game warden. But as an officer I’ve buried more than a few of my colleagues. Met the fatherless children, know the widows, have seen first hand how their lives are impacted afterward, seen the funerals, and even been at the autopsies. There is no excuse for the actions. The sentence was light and should have been nothing less than life without parole….
Click to expand...

I probably agree with you 100%

Though it occurred to me at some point that the backstory behind being a plane crash survivor and going awol from the navy were significant details. It’s possible the kid had a long history of making bad choices. It’s also possible the the plane crash he survived was part of navy operation. If he was serving in the military and had some significant combat trauma then I’d advocate that we all show some compassion and offer a healing hand rather than a life sentence.
 
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