Saddle Durability

[RedOak]

I understand that this may be a difficult question as the Mantis hasn’t been out yet to truly get a good gage on durability. However, I own a Kestrel that I bought this spring and can tell already that this thing is built to last. The Mantis has peaked my interest due to its minimalist styling. Even more so than the Kestrel it appears. My question is will the overall durability on the Mantis with its mesh and seemingly minimalist design match that of the Kestrel? I, like most of us, am weight conscious, but a few ounces is worth it if the durability is improved (think Mystery Ranch packs). For someone not hiking all that far in, would it be worth it in the long run to switch from a Kestrel to a Mantis?

 

[flinginairos]

The Kestrel is certainly “bomb proof” but I can promise you the Mantis is just as tough and built with proven materials. I don’t see anyone wearing one out any time soon


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[ckossuth]

As the prototyper of the Mantis I've made upwards of a dozen of them. As @flinginairos said, all of the materials used in the Mantis are tried and tested. @BassBoysLLP subjected the material to hundreds of hours of ozone testing which is equivalent to being outside for decades. I smile a little every time the word "minimalist" is associated with strength (as far as the Mantis is concerned). I completely understand why a person would instantly do so though. Generally, at least in my mind, when you think of "minimalist" outdoor gear, it's often super ultra light hiking and camping gear such as packs and shelters. Think Cuben fiber and silnylon. Both are extremely light and strong. But the applications of both are limited when it comes to supporting actual weight. Is the Kestrel bombproof? Yes. Is it extremely overbuilt for its purpose? Yes. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The huge difference between the designs of the Kestrel and the Mantis is the design mindset from inception. The Kestrel was born from an arborists mindset. This is not at all the case with the Mantis. It was born from the minds unified saddle hunters for one single purpose, with nothing added or taken away that would make the end result anything other than awesome!

 

[EricS]

There are a lot of 15 year old mesh trophyline saddles out there and they are in good shape. You should inspect any safety item often and especially after any kind of jarring load. If the webbing, bridge, and tether are in good shape you could remove the mesh part and still be safe while not that comfortable. Think of it as a harness with a seat sewn in. Something like a diy fleece saddle requires a rock harness because it doesn’t have the safety harness built in and if the fabric itself failed you would probably fall.

 

[rambotogo]

In what state is the mantis made? I think the Kestral is made in Utah?

 

[flinginairos]

In what state is the mantis made? I think the Kestral is made in Utah?

Minnesota

 

[g2outdoors]

I understand that this may be a difficult question as the Mantis hasn’t been out yet to truly get a good gage on durability. However, I own a Kestrel that I bought this spring and can tell already that this thing is built to last. The Mantis has peaked my interest due to its minimalist styling. Even more so than the Kestrel it appears. My question is will the overall durability on the Mantis with its mesh and seemingly minimalist design match that of the Kestrel? I, like most of us, am weight conscious, but a few ounces is worth it if the durability is improved (think Mystery Ranch packs). For someone not hiking all that far in, would it be worth it in the long run to switch from a Kestrel to a Mantis?

You bring up several points that are worth talking about.
- Every single piece of material on the Mantis is heavy duty. Our webbing is all rot, mildew, weather resistant, and super strong. Our bridge is the strongest on the market and also rot, mildew, weather resistant. Our Mesh meets MILSPEC MIL-C-8061 standards. This means it's made in America and meets all the durability standards for the US Military. This particular mesh was engineered for the IOTV (Improved Outer Tactical Vest), better known as body armor. The Mantis is built in Minnesota at a facility that maintains a ISO (International Organization for Standardization) accreditation. We could have gone with a less expensive manufacturer without an accreditation, but we wanted to make sure our products were top of the line.

- It's easy to mistake heavy & overbuilt as better quality, but that's not always the case. Look at the the ultralight climbing and mountaineering community (that's where we drew our inspiration). Their harnesses are ultralight and simple, their tents and gear shave weight wherever possible. But that doesn't mean they lack quality. You brought up Mystery Ranch packs. They're certainly well built - but you sacrifice weight and bulk. The goal of the Mantis is the be the Ferrari of elevated hunting...not the Cadillac. We want light, fast, and agile without sacrificing quality.

- There also comes a point of diminishing returns when it comes to durability and strength. The Mantis will test around 5,000 pounds. Sure we could have gone with heavier duty, more durable materials, but why? It's already strong enough to hold a Jeep. Do hunters really need it to be strong enough to hold a tank?

- Finally, It's important to note we're not talking about "a few ounces". The Mantis is 60% lighter than the Kestrel. 60% is significant. Furthermore, we looked at every single piece of the Mantis and tailored it for how we hunt. We also save significant weight and bulk with our line of accessories and factory-spliced tethers and lineman belts. We stripped out everything unnecessary and only kept the vital components.

At the end of the day, only you can decide to make the switch or not. If I had a Kestrel, I would probably switch only because I'm a Geardo and always looking for something else to toy around with. But I've said it many times...there's nothing at all wrong with the Kestrel. It's a great, well made product that took a lot of time and energy to build. Sure, we made a lot of improvements and came up with a lot of unique features, but there's no need to switch if you're happy with what you have. All our accessories will work with the Kestrel as well. We wanted to create items that work for everyone, not force saddle hunters into our products.

Sorry for the long-winded response. Hope that makes sense.

 

[donnieballgame]

Honestly, I don't buy stuff when it first comes out.....ever! Nothing against Tethrd Nation, I felt the same way about the Kestrel last year, I wanted to see what the reviews were. Even better if I can get my hands on one before buying it. I'm sure both products are great, and I can't really comment because I don't own either, lol.

Time will tell, give it a full season, or even better 4, lol.

 

[RedOak]

@g2outdoors The response is exactly what I was looking for. As a fellow geardo, I too am always searching for “faster, lighter, stronger”. The reason my Kestrel is on eBay and I placed my Mantis order last night has a lot to do with the stripped down and streamlined design. Factory splicing the lineman’s belt and tether alone is going to greatly reduce the overall footprint of the system.
I’m constantly looking to streamline my setups. Whether it’s bass fishing on my kayak or bow hunting, cutting out the fluff makes me more efficient in the field.
I know when guys first arrived in Iraq/Afghanistan, they would be what we called “gear bombs”. Just dudes loaded down with tons of crap they thought they needed. By the end of the deployment, in addition to having sick mustaches, guys were carrying the absolute bare minimum. They learned from time on the ground exactly how many mags, frags, radio batteries, smoke grenades, IFAK kit items they needed and didn’t waste energy carrying more.
For me now, it’s less about the weight of the gear walking in, and more about maximizing my time on stand. I can do that easier by having less gear to worry about and maintain. In fact, I see saddle hunting as a way to reduce my overall hunting work load. Not having to hang, tighten, replace straps, and grease squeaky connections is going to allow me to spend more time shed hunting and scouting post season.

 

[flinginairos]

@g2outdoors The response is exactly what I was looking for. As a fellow geardo, I too am always searching for “faster, lighter, stronger”. The reason my Kestrel is on eBay and I placed my Mantis order last night has a lot to do with the stripped down and streamlined design. Factory splicing the lineman’s belt and tether alone is going to greatly reduce the overall footprint of the system.
I’m constantly looking to streamline my setups. Whether it’s bass fishing on my kayak or bow hunting, cutting out the fluff makes me more efficient in the field.
I know when guys first arrived in Iraq/Afghanistan, they would be what we called “gear bombs”. Just dudes loaded down with tons of crap they thought they needed. By the end of the deployment, in addition to having sick mustaches, guys were carrying the absolute bare minimum. They learned from time on the ground exactly how many mags, frags, radio batteries, smoke grenades, IFAK kit items they needed and didn’t waste energy carrying more.
For me now, it’s less about the weight of the gear walking in, and more about maximizing my time on stand. I can do that easier by having less gear to worry about and maintain. In fact, I see saddle hunting as a way to reduce my overall hunting work load. Not having to hang, tighten, replace straps, and grease squeaky connections is going to allow me to spend more time shed hunting and scouting post season.

Couldn’t agree more! I have been working on my saddle setup for the last several years constantly tweaking and trying to come up with the ultimate lightweight, efficient system. I feel exactly like you do, the less crap I take to the woods the more efficient and deadly I am. I had my gear dialed in pretty dang good last year and now Tethrd has taken that to a new level. Greg was kind enough to let me test the Mantis and the Predator and I can honestly say there is nothing on them to mod. I can’t find one thing! Here’s a breakdown of the gear I carried last year vs what I will carry this year. The weight savings is significant!

2017 deer season
Pack weight (cam gear/platform/spurs )-22.25lbs

Spurs 4.54lbs
Kestrel Saddle (full kit)-4.96lbs
XOP Platform 4.25lbs

2018 deer season

Pack weight (cam gear/platform/spurs)-15.5lbs
Spurs 2.60lbs
Mantis Saddle (full kit) 2.57lbs
Predator Platform 2.60lbs

That’s a 6.75lb weight savings with a lot less bulk!




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[Tapeworm]

Couldn’t agree more! I have been working on my saddle setup for the last several years constantly tweaking and trying to come up with the ultimate lightweight, efficient system. I feel exactly like you do, the less crap I take to the woods the more efficient and deadly I am. I had my gear dialed in pretty dang good last year and now Tethrd has taken that to a new level. Greg was kind enough to let me test the Mantis and the Predator and I can honestly say there is nothing on them to mod. I can’t find one thing! Here’s a breakdown of the gear I carried last year vs what I will carry this year. The weight savings is significant!

2017 deer season
Pack weight (cam gear/platform/spurs )-22.25lbs

Spurs 4.54lbs
Kestrel Saddle (full kit)-4.96lbs
XOP Platform 4.25lbs

2018 deer season

Pack weight (cam gear/platform/spurs)-15.5lbs
Spurs 2.60lbs
Mantis Saddle (full kit) 2.57lbs
Predator Platform 2.60lbs

That’s a 6.75lb weight savings with a lot less bulk!




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Impressive weight cuts.

Even last year ur whole set up only weighed the same as most aluminum climbers and now u just shaved 30% off that.




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[RedOak]

@flinginairos I found your YouTube channel recently and can tell you and I have a lot in common when it comes to gear selection. I have converted many of my hunting buddies to make the switch over to quality hunting clothing in the last few years. I myself use a combination of Sitka, Kuiu, and several other non hunting brand items.
I resisted switching over to the fancier gear for a few seasons but finally broke down and bought some Kuiu back when it still made in Canada. Over time I slowly adapted my clothing system into what I now believe is the ultimate in versatility and comfort.
If there’s any interest, I’d be happy to do a review of what I plan to be hunting in this season and why I chose these particular items. I understand that many of these pieces are expensive but I firmly believe in the mindset of “fewer, nicer thing”. I’d rather have one really good jacket than 3 that suck. If there’s any interest let me know and when I get a chance I’ll do a quick run down on my clothing that gets me from October 1st through December.

 

[g2outdoors]

3 LB = Mantis Saddle, Amsteel bridge, MicroFit Adjusters, Tether, Lineman Belt, x3 Carabiners, x2 Ropeman 1, x2 SYS Haulers.
3.3 LB = Gecko CF modified climbing spurs
2.7 LB = Predator Platform

9 lbs TOTAL to climb the tree and hunt. RIDICULOUS.

From here, everything varies based on the weather and the timing of the hunt. Packs, clothes, gear, weapons, and accessories all change so it's impossible to figure out a weight since it changes almost daily.

 

[donnieballgame]

@flinginairos I found your YouTube channel recently and can tell you and I have a lot in common when it comes to gear selection. I have converted many of my hunting buddies to make the switch over to quality hunting clothing in the last few years. I myself use a combination of Sitka, Kuiu, and several other non hunting brand items.
I resisted switching over to the fancier gear for a few seasons but finally broke down and bought some Kuiu back when it still made in Canada. Over time I slowly adapted my clothing system into what I now believe is the ultimate in versatility and comfort.
If there’s any interest, I’d be happy to do a review of what I plan to be hunting in this season and why I chose these particular items. I understand that many of these pieces are expensive but I firmly believe in the mindset of “fewer, nicer thing”. I’d rather have one really good jacket than 3 that suck. If there’s any interest let me know and when I get a chance I’ll do a quick run down on my clothing that gets me from October 1st through December.

I'm in the market for some better hunting clothing, so that's one vote for a breakdown of ur gear, start a thread, I've been thinking about starting one with a question of what folks use and recommend.

 

[flinginairos]

@flinginairos I found your YouTube channel recently and can tell you and I have a lot in common when it comes to gear selection. I have converted many of my hunting buddies to make the switch over to quality hunting clothing in the last few years. I myself use a combination of Sitka, Kuiu, and several other non hunting brand items.
I resisted switching over to the fancier gear for a few seasons but finally broke down and bought some Kuiu back when it still made in Canada. Over time I slowly adapted my clothing system into what I now believe is the ultimate in versatility and comfort.
If there’s any interest, I’d be happy to do a review of what I plan to be hunting in this season and why I chose these particular items. I understand that many of these pieces are expensive but I firmly believe in the mindset of “fewer, nicer thing”. I’d rather have one really good jacket than 3 that suck. If there’s any interest let me know and when I get a chance I’ll do a quick run down on my clothing that gets me from October 1st through December.

I think a rundown of your gear would help some people! Start a thread on it and it will generate some discussion I’m sure. I can add what I am using as well in my layering system.


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[Chistavocat]

@flinginairos I found your YouTube channel recently and can tell you and I have a lot in common when it comes to gear selection. I have converted many of my hunting buddies to make the switch over to quality hunting clothing in the last few years. I myself use a combination of Sitka, Kuiu, and several other non hunting brand items.
I resisted switching over to the fancier gear for a few seasons but finally broke down and bought some Kuiu back when it still made in Canada. Over time I slowly adapted my clothing system into what I now believe is the ultimate in versatility and comfort.
If there’s any interest, I’d be happy to do a review of what I plan to be hunting in this season and why I chose these particular items. I understand that many of these pieces are expensive but I firmly believe in the mindset of “fewer, nicer thing”. I’d rather have one really good jacket than 3 that suck. If there’s any interest let me know and when I get a chance I’ll do a quick run down on my clothing that gets me from October 1st through December.

3rd vote here.


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[Erniepower]

Cool topic idea. We all have "our system". I know mine is probably different than yours. I'm super curious to see how other people do it. Hopefully I can find a secret I've been missing

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[denots]

Cool topic idea. We all have "our system". I know mine is probably different than yours. I'm super curious to see how other people do it. Hopefully I can find a secret I've been missing

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Yep me too.

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[RedOak]

Ok I posted my rundown on my gear system I’m currently using in “gear reviews”. The post title is “An Evidence Based Hunting System”. I tried to upload some pics I took with my iPhone but it says they are too big. It’s pretty long winded, but I wanted to highlight why I use what I do and what things I tried and eventually eliminated to get me there. I’ve bought and sold a LOT of gear much to my wife’s dismay. The good thing about buying quality is it tends to be easy to sell it on eBay once I move on to something else. Check out the thread and let me know if you have a way for me to upload the pics.

 

[redsquirrel]

Ok I posted my rundown on my gear system I’m currently using in “gear reviews”. The post title is “An Evidence Based Hunting System”. I tried to upload some pics I took with my iPhone but it says they are too big. It’s pretty long winded, but I wanted to highlight why I use what I do and what things I tried and eventually eliminated to get me there. I’ve bought and sold a LOT of gear much to my wife’s dismay. The good thing about buying quality is it tends to be easy to sell it on eBay once I move on to something else. Check out the thread and let me know if you have a way for me to upload the pics.

To upload pics you have to resize them. There is a maximum dimension of 1600 pixels on a side.