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Saddle Durability

I answered this very question to someone I demoed saddle gear to a couple days ago.

Bulk. Shaving the bulk is super important to me. I don’t always wear my saddle in so when I do I want to be able to pack it in and reduce its footprint as much as possible.

My hikes are never more than a mile in. I’m not concerned about a pound or two extra. What I am concerned about is bulk.

The bare kestrel packs down great. But add a bridge with a biner, two dump pouches, and a tree strap and lineman’s belt with a ropeman and a biner and suddenly it’s not packing down so hot. And crap it’s 50 and going to drop 15-20 degrees by the time I walk out of the woods and dang it would be nice to have an extra layer in my pack. And jeez I need stepps or sticks and a platform to get up in the tree and even get setup hunting. You see where I’m going with this.

This year I’m aiming to have my entire setup fit pretty much inside a 2200 cu.in. Daypack. That’s pretty much unheard of compared to what I used to haul. Honestly I can’t wait.

Regarding the topic of durability... if the mantis materials are questionable it would be a huge waste of time for everyone contributing money and time to the project. I would sincerely hope they are not planning for obsolescence with their product.



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One thing I have not seen here and was dissapointed when it finally arrived was that the makers of the Kestral recommend that the saddle be retired in 7yrs. regardless of the condition. Why exactly I don't know unless they feel the materials used to build it will be broken down enough by then to make it dangerous. No where on the site was this ever mentioned when the sales pitch was presented. I'm still using a lone wolf climber thats 25 yrs. old and trust my life in it. No where does the wolf give its equipment a shelf life. So here's the question Greg. Does my new Mantis have a shelf life I won't find out about until I receive it? ......... To be fair Wolf does have a shelf life on their traction belts.
 
Drslyr said:
One thing I have not seen here and was dissapointed when it finally arrived was that the makers of the Kestral recommend that the saddle be retired in 7yrs. regardless of the condition. Why exactly I don't know unless they feel the materials used to build it will be broken down enough by then to make it dangerous. No where on the site was this ever mentioned when the sales pitch was presented. I'm still using a lone wolf climber thats 25 yrs. old and trust my life in it. No where does the wolf give its equipment a shelf life. So here's the question Greg. Does my new Mantis have a shelf life I won't find out about until I receive it? ......... To be fair Wolf does have a shelf life on their traction belts.
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I'm sure it has everything to do with liability and nothing to do with the actual material degrading.

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denots said:
I'm sure it has everything to do with liability and nothing to do with the actual material degrading.

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They do the same thing with children’s car seats. I think those things are only “good” for like 5 years. Either way I still don’t think it’s right.
 
Since everyone is posting their gear reviews, is there a way to add this to your profile. Anyone can go pull it up and see what saddle you use, sticks, pack, etc.

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Life of commercially available products is pretty nuanced. putting a lifespan on a product is as much for liability reasons as it is data driven. I am in the process of manufacturing a product used in an industrial setting. It has a 3:1 safety factor and will not fail prior to 1 million "uses". The product will most likely get used tens of thousands of times at much less than the ratings required. My liability goes to very close to zero though. In this situation, weight or bulk isn't an issue. I could make it lighter and cheaper, but then I'd have to put a "life" on it. You could make a saddle that has a "life" of 25 years. It would probably leave a lot of our boxes unchecked though (comfort, weight, bulk, price, customization, etc).
 
I'm also curious about durability. Just in general. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on either the Aero Hunter Kite or the Mantis but durability is a question for me. When you buy a high quality stand it will last for years and years if you take care of it and do maintenance, but is there a life expectancy for the saddles? I typically would only get a couple years out of tree stand harnesses, and I'm not sure if thats because of how I hunt (I do enjoy hunting in the rain and snow and will hunt in the hot early temperatures here in KY) or just the general life of such things. This being said, I do get the importance of replacing gear as I replace ropes, prussik rope and other items after 5 years or if signs of wear are present. I guess I'm just curious if the "price of doing business" calls for buying a new saddle every 3-5 years or if we can hope to see them last for a long, long time (I'd assume it would be important to replace them every 5 years or so since sweat, debris, UV and such can degrade the quality of gear overtime).
 
Aerohunter products are bombproof. Literally. You’d be hard pressed to find more durable commercially made equipment.

Even the older trophyline saddles were super tough. Likely you would break long before the equipment does.


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joshlivinglife said:
I'm also curious about durability. Just in general. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on either the Aero Hunter Kite or the Mantis but durability is a question for me. When you buy a high quality stand it will last for years and years if you take care of it and do maintenance, but is there a life expectancy for the saddles? I typically would only get a couple years out of tree stand harnesses, and I'm not sure if thats because of how I hunt (I do enjoy hunting in the rain and snow and will hunt in the hot early temperatures here in KY) or just the general life of such things. This being said, I do get the importance of replacing gear as I replace ropes, prussik rope and other items after 5 years or if signs of wear are present. I guess I'm just curious if the "price of doing business" calls for buying a new saddle every 3-5 years or if we can hope to see them last for a long, long time (I'd assume it would be important to replace them every 5 years or so since sweat, debris, UV and such can degrade the quality of gear overtime).
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A lot of guys on here have hoarded trophyline tree saddles for YEARS. John Eberhart has hunted from his harness (made entirely from webbing), for a couple decades without replacing it... if I am not mistaken.


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flinginairos said:
Couldn’t agree more! I have been working on my saddle setup for the last several years constantly tweaking and trying to come up with the ultimate lightweight, efficient system. I feel exactly like you do, the less crap I take to the woods the more efficient and deadly I am. I had my gear dialed in pretty dang good last year and now Tethrd has taken that to a new level. Greg was kind enough to let me test the Mantis and the Predator and I can honestly say there is nothing on them to mod. I can’t find one thing! Here’s a breakdown of the gear I carried last year vs what I will carry this year. The weight savings is significant!

2017 deer season
Pack weight (cam gear/platform/spurs )-22.25lbs

Spurs 4.54lbs
Kestrel Saddle (full kit)-4.96lbs
XOP Platform 4.25lbs

2018 deer season

Pack weight (cam gear/platform/spurs)-15.5lbs
Spurs 2.60lbs
Mantis Saddle (full kit) 2.57lbs
Predator Platform 2.60lbs

That’s a 6.75lb weight savings with a lot less bulk!




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My setup is slightly lighter than my 2017 setup, I just pushed hard & lost another 10lbs...... I don’t think you have much room to shave it there
 
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If the kestrel had a true shelf life of 7 years I’d suspect there wouldn’t be much of a market for used ones at the price they sell for and we know that isn’t the case. I’m sure like anything else, the better you care for it the better it’s gonna last.
 
Edit - I misread the post above where I thought it was mentioned above that the Kestrel was designed with arborists in mind - I think that deserves a clarification. It was not stated that it was designed for arborists - apologies!

New tribe is a company that builds equipment for arborists. They started the Aero Hunter division with hunters in mind with their first attempts being too "arboristy" to function in a hunting space efficiently. The Kestrel was the result of paring those saddles down to what works best for saddle hunters.

The Kestrel was designed WITH hunters FOR hunters (It is still built by a company that is rooted in the arborist industry). There's some legacy arborist's nuance that I think carries over by being a little overbuilt. Also, there's 4 or 5 ounces to be shaved by using different buckles. This was accomplished with the Kite - which I think is a more appropriate apples/apples comparison to the Mantis, and is an option not mentioned here.

The quality of work from the commercially available saddles is likely to be aboveboard. NT has way too much to lose to send out unsafe or weak equipment. Tethrd guys are putting out the procedure they're going through to ensure quality control.

As an owner of both a kestrel and a kite(a very close comparison to the mantis), I couldn't imagine the weight difference being relevant for less than a 1/2 mile hike. And honestly, I couldn't see it being a material difference for long ones unless you're paying attention to every single thing that goes into your pack, and working to reduce it as much as possible. I would say 99% of the hunting world will never notice the difference, and 95% of hardcore saddle hunters walking less than 1/2 mile will never know the difference.

There are going to be some differences that may affect us all individually though...As they come stock, you may find a preference between the kestrel/kite/mantis on the buckles, leg straps, lineman's belt placement, cordura vs mesh in relation to noise and temperature. And an often overlooked detail is the exact shape of the webbing/filler material. We are all shaped differently, and one brand/model/size may fit you better than another. Having said that - tether height adjustments, and bridge length adjustments have the largest effect on saddle comfort.

Durability will come down to materials of construction (all commercially available options are using the same stuff - the baseline here is pretty high), quality of work, and specific design details. The latter of these two will only come to light in a few years - it's all too new to see a difference.
 
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kyler1945 said:
It was mentioned above that the Kestrel was designed with arborists in mind - I think that deserves a clarification.
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This ^^^ is not what I said.

It's built BY arborists, not FOR arborists. That would just be silly...

This is what I said. I stand behind it.

The huge difference between the designs of the Kestrel and the Mantis is the design mindset from inception. The Kestrel was born from an arborists mindset. This is not at all the case with the Mantis. It was born from the minds unified saddle hunters for one single purpose, with nothing added or taken away that would make the end result anything other than awesome!

Thanks!!
 
My amateur opinion I think the amsteel fixed bridge is going to be the determinant to the OP's question re durability. How the bend at the splice holds up over time, and how it holds up to the occasional oopsie shock loading. As far as I am aware, basically a new application for amsteel although a lot of polyethylene equipment is utilized in the climbing industry which has been tested to certain standards.

Without yet having the mantis in hand obviously, I believe that is also a decent chunk of the cited weight difference between the Mantis and the Kestrel/Kite, fwiw. Tehterd people can correct me if I am wrong there in relation to their marketing efforts.

Durability in general is largely dependent on so many factors, and obviously the manufacturers in acting responsibly in a litigious society put a number on on recommended retirement ages that probably represents a near worst-case scenario when it comes to proper care and usage. The average guy hunting 10 or 20 times a year if the gear is properly stored, decades are more likely a sufficient real-world estimate.
 
weekender21 said:
Do the Kestral owners and staffers post on this forum?
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Not so much recently. The owners have been very gracious, but it seems most of the Aerohunter staff abandoned saddlehunter when Tethrd launched...


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IkemanTX said:
Not so much recently. The owners have been very gracious, but it seems most of the Aerohunter staff abandoned saddlehunter when Tethrd launched...


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That's too bad, I'd think it would be healthy for the community for all manufacturers to contribute to the forum. But, that's a completely outsider objective opinion. Just seems weird that the owner and staff of one company are frequent contributors but nothing from any of the other companies.
 
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