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Saddle with Hang on

athompson18

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Currently using a one stick and saddle set up, for some reason I am getting a slight interest in one sticking with a lock on. I see some guys use a rock climbing harness, I am assuming you can use a saddle as well? How do you tether to the tree.

Anyone with experience with this care to share their opinion/experience?
 

Westdesign03

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I have done this several times and really enjoy using a saddle with a lock on. What I do is just set my tether on the tree basically where I would if I was using a saddle platform, then just pull the tether out a ways and turn around on the stand facing out away from the tree and sit down on the stand seat. The tether then just hangs over my shoulder going up to the tree there. Seems to work great for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

KYhunter66

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Currently using a one stick and saddle set up, for some reason I am getting a slight interest in one sticking with a lock on. I see some guys use a rock climbing harness, I am assuming you can use a saddle as well? How do you tether to the tree.

Anyone with experience with this care to share their opinion/experience?
I use a bowline knot to the tree a saddle is not fall protection rock harnesses is!
 
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KYhunter66

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If you turn around and sit down with a saddle you would have slack in your tether and it's not for that! My rope tether has prusic knot and when I sit I pull it tight.My rope is climbing dynamic 8.4mm for falls
 

athompson18

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Thanks everyone! Just trying to find the best set up for me, I love the saddle, but the comfort of a lock-on. I have entered the Rabbitt hole of forever tinkering and tuning the set up. Looking for the "ultimate" set up.... and I know there is no such thing.
 
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Fl Canopy Stalker

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Ok I am definitely not meaning to offend or insult anyone with this post but I watched some older videos of this same guy swearing he does not saddle hunt but “knows enough to be dangerous” and that the tactisaddle was the greatest saddle ever created. Now he’s using a rock climbing harness, which many of us did years ago as a back up to sit drags. Yes I know this post mentions using a hang on with a saddle so I have some thoughts and perhaps others have mentioned these points as well? Again not to belittle anyone, but I am stating his comments from other videos. Now onto the bigger issue with this video. A) he mentions clipping into the metal rings for lineman’s loops which works and is strong but most of us try desperately to avoid metal on metal contact points and to save weight when practical. A good large FIRM lineman’s loop will clip in just as easily as that metal ring and be just as safe without extra weight or noise! B) he is tethering into only the top loop of the harness which he claims is just as safe and strong because rock climbers and arborists said so... Most arborist saddles if not all, are work positioning saddles that contain either metal d rings to tie in on the sides or they have a short fixed bridge. This is because short bridges and side connection cause more inward pinch. It keeps you in the harness more firmly for obvious safety reasons such as a cut branch swinging out and knocking you unconscious. You are taught not to add slack in your system because the arborist saddle is not a fall arresting harness it’s made for work positioning. So if you are hit by a cut falling branch and you fall like 8 or 10” and flip sideways or upside down, the harness will without a doubt keep you in it even if the belt is not completely tightened. The leg straps on an arborist saddle while large, usually padded and connected in the front and the back of the harness are weight bearing but not necessarily fall arresting in strength (there is a difference). By comparison a rock climbing harness has no bridge. Your tie in points are the loops in the belt portion and leg strap portion. The belay loop is for belay only and even though it is strong enough to support you, it is not intended for constant load in and of itself. This is because they are designed to apply more pressure to the legs and less to the upper torso during rappelling. Due to the lack of even weight distribution, they aren’t recommended to be used for climbs or falls. Using them in that manner can cause extreme trams to your legs or pinch off the blood supply in the veins/arteries... Well it’s the same in reverse when you connect to only the top loop of rock harnesses. See in the event of a fall the initial dynamic load will be applied to the area on the harness that tightens first. In his hook up, that is the top. So he will have nearly all the initial force applied to his torso before the leg portion helps absorb the force. He mentions slips or cut outs and falls on his linesman belt as hurting and removing him from the hunt for days. Well the way he is hooking up, it will be no different at all. When your torso absorbs the force, you can do more than be sore, you can break your spine and or crush internal organs, herniated discs, not just bruise you up, when you have a fall. And it doesn’t matter your fall distance, as much as your fall factor; ie how high above your rope or tether you are in relation to the amount of slack in your system. A 2’ fall in a 1 to 1 fall factor will generate nearly the same force as a 6’ fall on the same 1 to 1. Long story short rock climbing harnesses are designed to be used with dynamic ropes so that they can arrest a fall safely and they are designed to be tied into the proper way not on the belay loop or just on the top connection. Furthermore if you are stand hunting, use the proper fall arresting harness, saddles are not intended to arrest a fall, they are intended to keep you from falling in the first place when properly used. Turning around with a tether over your shoulder adds slack and could wrap the tether around your neck if you fall.

It is the misunderstanding of harnesses and their designs that lead to bad information being spread. Bad information from you tube can lead to injuries or death. Injuries and death lead to expensive insurance for hunting products as well as increased medical for you and increased rates across the board for everyone. Unless we all want gear to cost $350 per saddle and for our medical insurance to continue jumping up every year, we need to try to spread good safe information and use products in the manner they are intended. I love hunting. I’m not at all afraid of heights or falls. I also do not want to pay an arm and a leg for safe hunting gear for me and my family so that we can enjoy going into the woods and shooting some game. Anyway rant over!
 
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Fl Canopy Stalker

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I use a bowline knot to the tree a saddle is not fall protection rock harnesses is!
A rock climbing harness is IF used in conjunction with a dynamic line or someone at the bottom belaying you to reduce impact forces. Other wise it is not much safer if any
 

HuumanCreed

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Ok I am definitely not meaning to offend or insult anyone with this post but I watched some older videos of this same guy swearing he does not saddle hunt but “knows enough to be dangerous” and that the tacit saddle was the greatest saddle ever created. Now he’s using a rock climbing harness, which many of us did years ago as a back up to sit drags. Yes I know this post mentions using a hang on with a saddle so I have some thoughts and perhaps others have mentioned these points as well? Again Not to belittle anyone but i am stating his comments from other videos. Now onto the bigger issue with this video. A) he mentions clipping into the metal rings for lineman’s loops which works and is strong but most of us try desperately to avoid metal on metal contact points and to save weight when practical. I good large FIRM lineman’s loop will clip in just as easily as that metal ring and be just as safe without extra weight or noise! B) he is tethering into only the top loop of the harness which he claims is just as safe and strong because rock climbers and arborists said so... Most arborist saddles if not all, are work positioning saddles that contain either metal d rings to tie in on the sides or the have a short fixed bridge. This is because short bridges and side connection cause more inward pinch. It keeps you in the harness more firmly for obvious safety reasons such as a cut branch swinging out and knocking you unconscious. You are taught not to add slack in your system because the arborist saddle is not a fall arresting harness it’s made for work positioning. So if you are hit and you fall like 8 or 10” and flip sideways or upside down, the harness will without a doubt keep you in it even if the belt is not completely tightened. The leg straps on an arborist saddle while large, usually padded and connected in the front and the back of the harness are weight bearing but not necessarily fall arresting in strength (there is a difference). By comparison a rock climbing harness has no bridge. Your tie in points are the loops in the belt portion and leg strap portion. The belay loop is for belay only and even though it is strong enough to support you, it is not intended for constant load in and of itself. This is because they are designed to apply more pressure to the legs and less to the upper torso during rappelling. Due to the lack of even weight distribution, they aren’t recommended to be used for climbs or falls. Well it’s the same in reverse when you connect to only the top loop of rock harnesses. See in the event of a fall the initial dynamic load will be applied to the area on the harness that tightens first. In his hook up, that is the top. So he will have nearly all the initial force applied to his torso before the leg portion helps absorb the force. He mentions slips or cut outs and falls on his linesman belt as hurting and removing him from the hunt for days. Well the way he is hooking up, it will be no different at all. When your torso absorbs the force, you can do more than be sore, you can break your spine and or crush internal organs, not just bruise up, when you have a fall. And it doesn’t matter your fall distance as much as your fall factor ie how high about your rope or tether in relation to the amount of slack. A 2’ fall in a 1 to 1 fall factor will generate nearly the same force as a 6’ fall on the same 1 to 1. Long story short rock climbing harnesses are designed to be used with dynamic ropes so that they can arrest a fall safely and they are designed to be tied into the proper way not on the belay loop or just on the top connection. Furthermore if you are stand hunting, use the proper fall arresting harness, saddles are not intended to arrest a fall, they are intended to keep you from falling in the first place when properly used.

It is the misunderstanding of harnesses and their designs that lead to bad information being spread. Bad information from you tube can lead to injuries or death. Injuries and death lead to expensive insurance for hunting products as well as increased medical for you and increased rates across the board for everyone. Unless we all want gear to cost $350 per saddle and for our medical insurance to continue jumping up every year, we need to try to spread good safe information and use products in the manner they are intended. I love hunting. I’m not at all afraid of heights or falls. I also do not want to pay an arm and a leg for safe hunting gear for me and my family so that we can enjoy going into the woods and shooting some game. Anyway rant over!

I seen a lot of Jason's video. I don't agree with everything he said but he is very passionate about his work. He's also very non-apologetic about his views and opinions. which in some way I respect. That said, I think RCH is option for safety system as long as you use dynamic ropes, but if I was treestand hunting, a traditional safety harness would still be the way to go. Not saying this from an expert position in anyway, but I think one of the reason that hunting safety harness attached to the back is because the pressure during a fall would distribute better. Your chest should be taking most of the force, not your waist. Just look at seatbelt. One of his argument for RCH is that you will face the tree after an accident and it make getting back easier, I think it would hurt more to hit the tree with your FACE. If I fall down from a stand, there shouldn't be too much swinging motion, but with the connection point being at my front waist area, I would think there would be a whiplashed effect that would pendulum me into the tree more.

There are rules and exceptions to everything. But in general I think equipment should be use for their primary purpose, you can still use something for a backup or secondary, but dont expect it to be a replacement. That's why I was not a fan of the Notch harness that people were buying like crazy a few months ago for $50-60. Arborist's harness should not be use as hunting saddle unless its a backup/secondary. Like a Sitdrag/RCH is ok.
 
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KYhunter66

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I like the rock harness with my dynamic 8.4mm climbing rope and prusic knot it has worked great for stand hunting and shots behind the stand. I used a few different saddles and I want back to lock on stand.
 
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Fl Canopy Stalker

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I seen a lot of Jason's video. I don't agree with everything he said but he is very passionate about his work. He's also very non-apologetic about his views and opinions. which in some way I respect. That said, I think RCH is option for safety system as long as you use dynamic ropes, but if I was treestand hunting, a traditional safety harness would still be the way to go. Not saying this from an expert position in anyway, but I think one of the reason that hunting safety harness attached to the back is because the pressure during a fall would distribute better. Your chest should be taking most of the force, not your waist. Just look at seatbelt. One of his argument for RCH is that you will face the tree after an accident and it make getting back easier, I think it would hurt more to hit the tree with your FACE. If I fall down from a stand, there shouldn't be too much swinging motion, but with the connection point being at my front waist area, I would think there would be a whiplashed effect that would pendulum me into the tree more.

There are rules and exceptions to everything. But in general I think equipment should be use for their primary purpose, you can still use something for a backup or secondary, but dont expect it to be a replacement. That's why I was not a fan of the Notch harness that people were buying like crazy a few months ago for $50-60. Arborist's harness should not be use as hunting saddle unless its a backup/secondary. Like a Sitdrag/RCH is ok.
I agree with almost everything you said. I don’t know Jason, I just happened across a few of his videos and unfortunately his views are not always supported by things like science, facts or engineering design. It would hurt to smack into the tree face first but the bigger issue is like you said, the force will be distributed to your torso which can and will cause severe injuries if the fall is significant enough. Best case scenario is some bruising and soreness. Another issue with turning completely backwards and sitting down is the slack in the system if you fell. You might not turn around face to the tree, you might slide down the tree and end up pinched between the tree and the rope with the rope across your chest or worse across your neck. Arborist saddles can be used for saddle hunting. The aerohunter saddles by design meet most if not all ANSI standards for arborist saddles and they are amazing to hunt from. The problem with most arbor saddles are they are not that comfortable, they are heavy, and they contain a ton of metal to clank around. For those reasons I avoid using them.
Either way having any harness is better than no harness but you can get a comfy muddy harness for the same price as a RCH so if you want to use the stand use the right harness. If you want to be able to shoot back of the tree like a saddle, keep your lineman’s rope attached at height. Then you can safely lean out and shoot the back side of the tree while in a normal harness. Just keep in mind that you do not want the harness tether in a position to be around your neck.
 
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Fl Canopy Stalker

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I like the rock harness with my dynamic 8.4mm climbing rope and prusic knot it has worked great for stand hunting and shots behind the stand. I used a few different saddles and I want back to lock on stand.
I see you mentioned dynamic rope which absorbs force, it is safer in this application BUT still would not solve the issue of the tether potentially pinching you between it and the tree, where as being hooked in from the back and facing outwards will avoid that. Comparatively facing forward in a saddle with the point of connection in front will do the same only hurt worse if you fall.
 

Mopar1169

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4 or 5 foot of dynamic rope above your prussic (whick includes going around the tree) isn't going to stretch enough to make any difference from a static rope. Gotta have a ripstop or something like a kong kisa inline if you want to reduce the force on you. Dynamic rope gets it shock absorption from long lines stretching not 1-4 ft of rope that is going to stretch a inch.
 

Fl Canopy Stalker

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4 or 5 foot of dynamic rope above your prussic (whick includes going around the tree) isn't going to stretch enough to make any difference from a static rope. Gotta have a ripstop or something like a kong kisa inline if you want to reduce the force on you. Dynamic rope gets it shock absorption from long lines stretching not 1-4 ft of rope that is going to stretch a inch.
So dynamic rope doesn’t help climbers who slip off gym walls at 4 or 5’ high? ANY amount of shock absorption makes a hinge difference in the amount of force received. That 4 foot of dynamic will stretch 25% or more of that distance and will absorb impact. Will it absorb as much as 30’? No. Think about how short the lanyard is on a fall arresting harness system (less than 6’ per ansi) It does make a difference
 

Mopar1169

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I am going to be using a kisa attached to my prussic. I still gotta get a chunk of 9mm rope to attach to bridge for it. Girth hitch prussic to kisa then 9 mm to bridge. Still be easy to adjust and limit loads if I were to slip or fall. Be using the method with beast stand. My plan right now anyways.
 
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HuumanCreed

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I like the rock harness with my dynamic 8.4mm climbing rope and prusic knot it has worked great for stand hunting and shots behind the stand. I used a few different saddles and I want back to lock on stand.

I'm going back to hang on when I finally feel like I'm good enough for traditional bow. I know, a lot of people have successfully saddle hunt with traditional bows, but I don't want to add too many variables in the beginning and I feel more confident on a hang on shooting a traditional bow, but that is just me who has no experience in traditional bow hunting yet.
 

Mopar1169

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So dynamic rope doesn’t help climbers who slip off gym walls at 4 or 5’ high? ANY amount of shock absorption makes a hinge difference in the amount of force received. That 4 foot of dynamic will stretch 25% or more of that distance and will absorb impact. Will it absorb as much as 30’? No. Think about how short the lanyard is on a fall arresting harness system (less than 6’ per ansi) It does make a difference
ANSI fall harnesses have rip stops in them. They pay out to absorb shock. Anything less then 12 ft from the ground have to use a retractable with ripstops in them. Use them all the time at work. A 6 ft lanyard drop at maximum force will end up being 9 ft after the ripstop gets done unloading. Hence the 12 ft high. Anything less you end up hitting the ground. Or at least your feet do.
 
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Fl Canopy Stalker

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ANSI fall harnesses have rip stops in them. They pay out to absorb shock. Anything less then 12 ft from the ground have to use a retractable with ripstops in them. Use them all the time at work. A 6 ft lanyard drop at maximum force will end up being 9 ft after the ripstop gets done unloading. Hence the 12 ft high. Anything less you end up hitting the ground. Or at least your feet do.
ANSI standards require you be tied off above 12’? I cannot figure out why the annual fall protection tells us above 6’? And we do not use retractables because they are not required. Only that the tie off point be strong enough to sustain the fall and high enough that you won’t hit the ground. There was no specific number because each manufacturer has different stretch and lengths. The “rip stop” you are referring to on a standard tree stand fall arrest harness only adds a few extra folds of about an inch each. These are just the webbing folded and sewn in at a reduced force. These folds slowly break away to lessen the impact force. They do not go from 3’ to 6’ they merely go about 6” to 8” and they do not ALL break anytime a fall is sustained. Anyone who has had a tree stand fall with a harness on can probably attest to that. So would they not be effective if they didn’t all break to weaken the force or were the first few so effective that there wasn’t enough force to cause the others to break free? It’s the same with dynamic rope. They stretch 25% or greater so 1’ will stretch a minimum of 2.4” extra. In the use he is referring to, you’re more likely to have about 3’ of exposed line plus the amount around the tree. That’s 5-8’ of rope stretching 25% that’s 2’ of extra stretch to absorb force. If you truly want to see how this works, take a true nylon sling. Not polyester or dyneema a true nylon sling that is 6’ long and hitch is to a tree and a come-along with a pull scale between it and the come-along. Crank it to 600 to 1200 lbs which is typical force generated in a short fall. I bet you the scale will not continue to read 1200 lbs, I bet it drops about 100 lbs of force in less than a matter of seconds. Keep in mind a nylon sling only stretches about 8% on average. Dynamic ropes are over 20%. Now do this experiment and then come tell me you don’t think 4 or 5’ shock absorbing rope lowers your force a lot more than a static rope will.
 
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