Shot placement article

[NMSbowhunter]

I would think you would need at least an equal number of hit locations represented where no dog tracker was needed. Shots that proved to be quickly fatal. I would go out on a limb and say most of those would be through the heart and lungs, not the guts.

 

[MattMan81]

I wonder if the ones in 5 and 6 columns had a pass thru or no.

The conclusion I drew is if you shoot them in that number 7 there you don't need a tracker. Or it's impossible to hit. No pins..

 

[DelaWhere_Arrow]

I would think you would need at least an equal number of hit locations represented where no dog tracker was needed. Shots that proved to be quickly fatal. I would go out on a limb and say most of those would be through the heart and lungs, not the guts.

All of the gut shots will likely be fatal too, but you’re much less likely to recover if they’ve been pushed, bedded in the nastiest of nasty, or just run-crapped themselves into the next county. And you probably would have WISHED you would have called a tracker lol. But I suspect there would be more blue/white tacks in gut-shot locations where no trackers were called, and still a fair amount of red, with almost zero green.

 

[Nutterbuster]

Found an article on the thing this reminded me of:

The Statistics That Kept Countless Allied Fighter Planes In The Sky

Turns out, the secret to improving the odds of returning aircraft was not additional armor on the most damaged parts. During the war, The United States commissioned a select group of mathematicians which came to be known as the Statistical Research Group. They worked around the clock in developing

worldwarwings.com

 

[krub6b]

So you're telling me if I put a pokey stick right through E7 I've got a dead deer with no need to call a tracker??? Sounds like the easy way out

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

 

[Kurt]

I didn't like the article and I certainly won't change anything I'm doing.

 

[Jammintree]

Doesn’t this basically just confirm conventional wisdom?

 

[Nosaj]

Doesn’t this basically just confirm conventional wisdom?

Pretty much, my first thought was "no @&>t"

 

[SD Guy]

I didn't like the article and I certainly won't change anything I'm doing.

Lot of important information left out of the study to be sure. Leaves us to fill in some of the blanks.

If the archer is using an infurior pointy stick, I can see where results may play out like this study & my take away is this study supports that many of the archery hunters in this study were using a infurior pointy stick. I can only imagine that penetration was frequently less than optimal in Columns 5 & 6. OK 5 is too far forward.
With that my take away is if you choose to shoot an less than optimal arrow BH combination (meaning poor FOC ratio not sharp & in a inadiquate momentum for full penetration when murphy visits with less than preferred impact point. All too many do not aim for full penetration when purchasing equipment & selecting shots.

Additionally my take away is in bow hunter education the message that we should not only target the vitals. We need to target through the vitals may be too frequently inadequately communicated. Simple very sharp 2 blade broad heads have been very successful for a lot of years now. Newer and larger is not always the better path forward IMHO.

Perhaps I read too much into this?

 

[Jammintree]

I will say this. My personal aimpoint matches up with his. I shoot big expandable heads. My thought process when I shoot a deer with any weapon is, "What aim point kills the deer and gives me the biggest margin for error?"

Like Tocqueville says, right but for the wrong reasons.

I use the same logic: the greatest margin. But I factor in that there's a high probability of the deer either dropping / advancing forward. My broadside aim point has been E7, though after this seasons experiences I think my new plan may be: E7 at close range and D8 at long range for broadside shots.

 

[BTaylor]

That was at best harmful to inexperienced bowhunters and otherwise an utterly useless compilation of words and stick pins on a picture.

 

[BlessdHuntr]

The data is flawed. It is the assumption that all shots are from the same angle and all broadside. There are to many variables to just put colored dots on a broadside picture say you can't shoot at that point. For instance if you're 20 feet up and the deer is hard quartering away. If you hit the spots in the 5 and 6 column. You will miss heart and lungs completely and arrow will exit thru the neck. I will continue to assess my shots as I need at that time and have my plan B arrows. And that is still no guarantee because as the RF says. The animal has a vote too. And they don't want to die.

 

[The_Fit_Ness_Monster]

Not sure I agree totally with it though I can see maybe where they get the conclusion from. I intentionally aim for shoulder if the angle is right, and I’ve never not had a pass through including hogs and sometimes through both shoulders, with my compound. Now with my recurve I avoid shoulder if I can though it really isn’t a worry if I can’t.

 

[SD Guy]

Not sure I agree totally with it though I can see maybe where they get the conclusion from. I intentionally aim for shoulder if the angle is right, and I’ve never not had a pass through including hogs and sometimes through both shoulders, with my compound. Now with my recurve I avoid shoulder if I can though it really isn’t a worry if I can’t.

Something tells me you are not shooting large expandable with a total arrow weight, less than 400 grains.

 

[The_Fit_Ness_Monster]

Something tells me you are not shooting large expandable with a total arrow weight, less than 400 grains.

418 gr with bloodsport gravedigger broadheads.

 

[2Sloe]

Here is a Field and Stream follow up article and rebuttal to the original article that was the subject of the original post. Probably worth a read if you were interested in the original.

Don't Tell Me to Shoot Behind the Shoulder!

F&S's hunting editor makes the case for bowhunters to use heavy arrows and to aim just in front of a deer's shoulder crease—at the "Vital V."

www.fieldandstream.com

 

[Jammintree]

Peace has been restored to the galaxy.

 

[Horn]

Here is a Field and Stream follow up article and rebuttal to the original article that was the subject of the original post. Probably worth a read if you were interested in the original.

Don't Tell Me to Shoot Behind the Shoulder!

F&S's hunting editor makes the case for bowhunters to use heavy arrows and to aim just in front of a deer's shoulder crease—at the "Vital V."

www.fieldandstream.com

I'd like to highlight the last two paragraphs of that article. 60# isn't out of reach for most of us and I bet most of us are close to 28 inch draw or more. (27.6 wingspan here) No hate for Dr. Ashby or RF. There are other, potentially better formula for whitetail.

Rant over.

Appreciate the follow up post/article

 

[BowhunterXC]

Shot angles and penetration are important.
Suspect If every one of those archery hunters involved in that study Chose an well tuned arrow with proper spine, with a heavy 150 grain plus, quality sharp COC single bevel head results would have varied greatly. And with that proper arrow setup, need for a tracking dog would be considerably less.

I agree! More people need to read the Ashby Foundation Reports and use their guidelines for their archery equipment. Texas FWS has already adopted these guidelines and I hope other states soon follow. They are now dropping deer within sight, as it should be with their equipment set up properly.
https://www.ashbybowhunting.org/12-arrow-penetration-factors

The Ashby Foundation guidelines helped a woman bow hunter with a 24" DL, shooting a 40# compound and a 710 grain arrow, get full penetration on an Eland. This is a 1800# to 2000# animal. Surely we could do the same thing with a thin skinned whitetail and the right setup.

 

[Plebe]

I agree! More people need to read the Ashby Foundation Reports and use their guidelines for their archery equipment. Texas FWS has already adopted these guidelines and I hope other states soon follow. They are now dropping deer within sight, as it should be with their equipment set up properly.
https://www.ashbybowhunting.org/12-arrow-penetration-factors

The Ashby Foundation guidelines helped a woman bow hunter with a 24" DL, shooting a 40# compound and a 710 grain arrow, get full penetration on an Eland. This is a 1800# to 2000# animal. Surely we could do the same thing with a thin skinned whitetail and the right setup.

How so, specifically?