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Small compact or large and comfy-this is the new dilemma in platforms

Nutterbuster said:
I'm not saying the claims about saddle hunting or heavy arrows arent true. I'm just saying small companies are successfully and aggressively marketing them now and making money off of people.
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Ok, I gottcha.
bj139 said:
Trajectory is also a factor in whether they get wounded or killed.
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Trajectory never wounded an animal. Trajectory is a factor to master in order to achieve good shot placement. People who shoot beyond their capabilities wound deer for what ever reason. Whether it's pride, or to make money on their show. That has nothing to do with the weight of your arrow, that's just poor choices made. If my 690 grain arrow is sighted in for 80 yds the path it took to get there doesn't matter. What matters is the target is probably not where it was when I released.
 
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Nutterbuster said:
This is going to be the reason the seesaw eventually tilts back to lighter arrows than whatever excessive weight folks will eventially start using. Too much of a good thing is a bad thing. It's like handgun defense cartridges. First light and fast is in vogue, then big and heavy. 9mm....45acp...9mm....45acp. He loves me...he loves me not...he loves me...
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I agree. It's like the snow bird half back phenomena, all us yankees want to move to Florida but realize it's too damn hot, and they all end up in Maryland.
 
Kurt said:
Ok, I gottcha.

Trajectory never wounded an animal. Trajectory is a factor to master in order to achieve good shot placement. People who shoot beyond their capabilities wound deer for what ever reason. Whether it's pride, or to make money on their show. That has nothing to do with the weight of your arrow, that's just poor choices made. If my 690 grain arrow is sighted in for 80 yds the path it took to get there doesn't matter. What matters is the target is probably not where it was when I released.
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If you hit them in the right spot, you don't need a heavy arrow. Misjudging distance results in poor hits with slow moving arrows.
 
Alright. I have to put my 2 cents in on this one. Years ago I used to shoot an Oregon bow set at #74 lbs. and I shot an aluminum lincoln log out of it (don't remember arrow size) with a 150 grain 2 blade Thunderhead on the business end. I shot deer with that set up that penetrated from one end of the animal to the other. The shot hit where it did because I was a dumb young archer and I took a shot on a very big,very alert doe and she about swapped ends at the shot. She only went about 50 yards and piled up.The arrow was literally completely buried in her and the broadhead was pushing the hide out at her brisket. I also shot another big doe that tried to duck the shot and the arrow hit her in the backbone. She died instantly, never even saw her kick.That is why I would still be using a heavy set up like that but the market kind of forced me into lighter and faster gear over the years. I couldn't even find the heavier stuff so I went with what was available. As far as the bigger platforms go I think there is a market for them so these companies are just responding to demand. The number of guys getting into saddles are growing every day and newbies might just want a bigger platform.Take me for example, I'm new to the saddle so I might prefer a bigger platform for more comfort and maneuverability. We all don't have to hike back in 2 miles to hunt. Like I said, just my 2 cents.
 
BOWHUNTER14 said:
@Kurt the biggest thing that is hurting the wounding statistics... If that is even a thing.. is hunting shows. These professional hunters out there lobbing arrows at buck 80 yards out or taking bad shots on animals for the sake of having film for their show. I can go buy the cheapest bow from bass pro or Walmart and go out and kill a deer no heavy arrow needed. Its about shot placement and the discipline to not take a bad shot on a deer just for the sake of bragging to your buddies that you killed something. Don't get me wrong I have wounded game before, I'm not saying I am perfect by any means. But less deer would be wounded if people had the fortitude to eat tag soup, over wounding a deer by taking an unethical shot. The heavy arrow trend is just the same as massive cut broadheads.....
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It is most certainly "a thing". I agree with you. People taking poor shots, too far, bad angles, just for whatever reason they are out of their max effective range, to me it stinks of disrespect for the game pursued. The one thing I'm fearful of with these bone breaking arrows is someone will think it's a license to take poor angle shots. I don't consider heavy arrows as a band-aid, I think it's part of the fix we need to start killing more and wounding less, on less than optimum shot placement. The other part has to come from the hunters themselves. On this we are in total agreement.
 
Kurt said:
Just get the Predator if your thinkin platform. We're not out there dancing. The Predator is plenty big enough. Well unless you have abnormally large feet or you prefer to hunt in flippers.
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Think that is what I'll do. Now if I could find a good price on a lightly used one.
 
One of the original attractions of saddle hunting was the ability to hunt 360 degrees from your tree.
John Eberhart helped pioneer this using an array of screw in steps around the circumference of the tree. We are somehow now evolving to extremely overpriced mini platforms that pretty much limit the ability of the hunter to that of a hang on treestand.
There are a dozen ways to make a wrap around platform that gives ample footrest and gaining back the original intent of 360 hunting.
I wish we would see some creativity with this method.. especially for the money being charged for these baby hang on treestands
 
So, now I have to get this one ironed out. I was just about to start welding an ultralight platform. Are you sure this is now in style?
 
bj139 said:
If you hit them in the right spot, you don't need a heavy arrow. Misjudging distance results in poor hits with slow moving arrows.
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I agree. Hit them in the right spot you don't need a heavy arrow. I will say that the drop in my 690 gr arrow from 10 to 20yds isn't going to hurt me, whether I hit em perfect or not so perfect. Only people who shoot to far for their skill level need to worry so much about that. It might not be their shooting skill but maybe their range estimation skills. One of the first things I learned from Ashby was that each man must decide what is the right set up for them. Not everyone needs to shoot 650+ grs. but if we move incrementally towards better arrows built with better components, and shoot fixed blade heads that aren't made of aluminum foil then it's progress in the right direction. I would never tell another person what to shoot and I would never poo poo on them for their choices. All I really know is what's right for me, and I barely know that most of the time.
 
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Sniper4hire said:
One of the original attractions of saddle hunting was the ability to hunt 360 degrees from your tree.
John Eberhart helped pioneer this using an array of screw in steps around the circumference of the tree. We are somehow now evolving to extremely overpriced mini platforms that pretty much limit the ability of the hunter to that of a hang on treestand.
There are a dozen ways to make a wrap around platform that gives ample footrest and gaining back the original intent of 360 hunting.
I wish we would see some creativity with this method.. especially for the money being charged for these baby hang on treestands
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I can hunt 360 from my Predator, But I can't easily move 360 around the tree unless I add a couple of those nifty squirrel steps to the strap. So far I haven't found the need to do that.
 
I humbly offer this for consideration...

I think what's lost in many discussions about light vs. heavy, fast vs. slow, etc. is our recognition and agreement that you will almost never hit where you are aiming when shooting a bow and arrow at a whitetail deer. Jumping the string is a real thing. Whether a deer drops 9" or only flinches, the evidence conclusively points to deer being able to react in some way between the time they hear the sound of an arrow being loosed to the time said arrow reaches point of impact. The delta between our intended point of aim and the actual point of impact (read: after a deer has moved in whatever great or minute way) make statements like "If you just hit them in the right spot" very tricky, and almost unachievable because the location of the "right spot" has to be anticipated.

As a counter-argument, some would say "But the right spot includes heart AND lungs! And that's a pretty big right spot!" This is shortsighted in that both bone and cartilage could be introduced in front of the point of impact where it wasn't prior to the shot. This factor is totally dependent on the way that particular deer flinches or turns.

Does this mean that hours of training on 3D targets where the right spot doesn't move is flawed? Absolutely not. In fact, even if we trained ourselves on moving targets or to "shoot low", we still can't accurately account for the precise movements of a wild animal.

Does this mean one should have a 700gr arrow so that they can blow two holes in the deer instead of one? Or does this mean that another should fling a 300gr arrow out of a 98lb bow like a laser so that they can try and minimize the delta described above? Like @Kurt said, it's a personal choice. As hunters in general though, let's not forget to recognize that unanticipated movement of our targets will happen, and allow ourselves to account for that when feeding the calculus.
 
Red Beard said:
I humbly offer this for consideration...

I think what's lost in many discussions about light vs. heavy, fast vs. slow, etc. is our recognition and agreement that you will almost never hit where you are aiming when shooting a bow and arrow at a whitetail deer. Jumping the string is a real thing. Whether a deer drops 9" or only flinches, the evidence conclusively points to deer being able to react in some way between the time they hear the sound of an arrow being loosed to the time said arrow reaches point of impact. The delta between our intended point of aim and the actual point of impact (read: after a deer has moved in whatever great or minute way) make statements like "If you just hit them in the right spot" very tricky, and almost unachievable because the location of the "right spot" has to be anticipated.

As a counter-argument, some would say "But the right spot includes heart AND lungs! And that's a pretty big right spot!" This is shortsighted in that both bone and cartilage could be introduced in front of the point of impact where it wasn't prior to the shot. This factor is totally dependent on the way that particular deer flinches or turns.

Does this mean that hours of training on 3D targets where the right spot doesn't move is flawed? Absolutely not. In fact, even if we trained ourselves on moving targets or to "shoot low", we still can't accurately account for the precise movements of a wild animal.

Does this mean one should have a 700gr arrow so that they can blow two holes in the deer instead of one? Or does this mean that another should fling a 300gr arrow out of a 98lb bow like a laser so that they can try and minimize the delta described above? Like @Kurt said, it's a personal choice. As hunters in general though, let's not forget to recognize that unanticipated movement of our targets will happen, and allow ourselves to account for that when feeding the calculus.
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99% of bowhunter’s can’t or won’t shoot equipment that can eliminate a deer’s reaction time. And 100% can’t eliminate the deer being alive prior to the shot, meaning it can move unrelated to reaction to a shot.

there’s a reason 90%+ of deer are killed within 30 yards(probably even higher). And it’s got almost nothing to do with arrows traveling 200fps versus 400fps
 
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