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Thought for you saddle making gurus!

All I know is the 1 guy that did fall a long way the first row of stitches did pop and the second row deformed.....vs all the short falls were it didn't do anything....these are full body harness so maybe it's different. I don't know....

just don't fall and u are good

The reason I have fallen is because of me doing something dumb like hanging off the side of the lift cage to reach something instead of just moving the lift..... minus total equipment failure (extremely unlikely) and loosing consciousness u really gotta mess up bad to fall IMO....

Obviously anything can happen at anytime but IMO if I'm going to fall in my mind it's going to happen while climbing and I rely on my linesman and ninja skills and hope for the best....
 
Weldabeast said:
All I know is the 1 guy that did fall a long way the first row of stitches did pop and the second row deformed.....vs all the short falls were it didn't do anything....these are full body harness so maybe it's different. I don't know....

just don't fall and u are good

The reason I have fallen is because of me doing something dumb like hanging off the side of the lift cage to reach something instead of just moving the lift..... minus total equipment failure (extremely unlikely) and loosing consciousness u really gotta mess up bad to fall IMO....

Obviously anything can happen at anytime but IMO if I'm going to fall in my mind it's going to happen while climbing and I rely on my linesman and ninja skills and hope for the best....
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I don’t disagree. Most falls happen getting onto or off of stands. If you pay attention and take time to make sure all equipment is utilized correctly it is nearly impossible to fall (minus unexpected equipment failure which you can’t account for). Due to the nature of my industry and the fact that I have zero urge to end up disabled, I’ve done extensive research on falls, forces, fall factors and even how different materials react during dynamic loading. Of course there are always variables that can change results. That is why items have weight limits. Everything, even how your harness or saddle fits you can change the outcome in a fall. I don’t disagree with you opinion, I think you are valid but fall factor is a large determining factor in generates force, that’s all I was saying.
 
I see what you are saying. Personally I don’t like to get above my tether.

So, other than commercially produced screamers (is that the word?) what are the options.

I have even thought of using a snubber but again, lots of bulk and not what it was made for.


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fawnzy said:
I see what you are saying. Personally I don’t like to get above my tether.

So, other than commercially produced screamers (is that the word?) what are the options.

I have even thought of using a snubber but again, lots of bulk and not what it was made for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
If shock force is genuinely the concern, the single safest and easiest to use option would be a dynamic rope used for your tether with a dynamic prusik. These are the lines used as lead climbing lines for rock/mountain climbing. If you keep your tether taut with minimal slack and you don’t climb above your tether or your linesman rope, you won’t generate enough force in a fall to have to worry. Another option I found interesting was the system NutterBuster uses. It’s either tubular or heavy duty nylon webbing which is strong and has stretch to it, and he uses a d ring buckle frame from Austria Alpin. While not exactly the intended use, if you use the ANSI rated version the minimum break strength on a straight pull is between 15 and 18kn which is around 4,000 lbs. if you use the standard one it would only be 9k because of the straight pull. It seems to me that the ANSI d ring frame would be plenty strong enough. The tubular webbing would be dynamic enough and strong enough. And a knot could always be tied at the end to prevent slipping. That in my mind would be a better overall option.
 
tailgunner said:
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Excellent video. For those paying attention, fall factor was in play. He made the same 2’ drop from different distances, if you notice the closer he was to the anchor point, the higher the shock load. Fall factor is how far you fall versus how much rope you have. If you fall 2’ on a 25’ rope it is only about twice your body weight. If you make that same 2’ drop on a 4’ rope you produce 3 to 4 times your body weight in force. Also keep in mind he’s using dynamic rope which absorbs force. If he fell on static rope those forces would be substantially higher because the rope would not stretch as much to absorb force. So for anyone who says if I only fall 1 or two foot on my tether so it’s not a big deal, keep in mind that a 1’ drop when you are only 2 foot from your girth hitch will produce about 4 times or more your body weight in force. This is why keeping your system tight is important. It is also why having enough stitching in areas for lineman’s loops or over lap for your saddle’s main webbing needs to be insanely strong. The guy in that video was about 170 lbs and produced over 450 lbs of force on a dynamic line with a 2’ fall. Imagine how much force a 240 lbs man would produce with a 2’ fall on a static line— probably closer to 800 or 900 lbs of force. And that’s with only a few inches of slack in his tether. Then look at the factor 2 fall and think of when people climb above their linesman rope! If you fall a couple feet on a linesman rope while it’s at your knees, that would be equivalent to a 1.5 to 2 fall factor. Be safe my friends as if your life is hanging by a strand (because it literally is)
 
Fl Canopy Stalker said:
Excellent video. For those paying attention, fall factor was in play. He made the same 2’ drop from different distances, if you notice the closer he was to the anchor point, the higher the shock load. Fall factor is how far you fall versus how much rope you have. If you fall 2’ on a 25’ rope it is only about twice your body weight. If you make that same 2’ drop on a 4’ rope you produce 3 to 4 times your body weight in force. Also keep in mind he’s using dynamic rope which absorbs force. If he fell on static rope those forces would be substantially higher because the rope would not stretch as much to absorb force. So for anyone who says if I only fall 1 or two foot on my tether so it’s not a big deal, keep in mind that a 1’ drop when you are only 2 foot from your girth hitch will produce about 4 times or more your body weight in force. This is why keeping your system tight is important. It is also why having enough stitching in areas for lineman’s loops or over lap for your saddle’s main webbing needs to be insanely strong. The guy in that video was about 170 lbs and produced over 450 lbs of force on a dynamic line with a 2’ fall. Imagine how much force a 240 lbs man would produce with a 2’ fall on a static line— probably closer to 800 or 900 lbs of force. And that’s with only a few inches of slack in his tether. Then look at the factor 2 fall and think of when people climb above their linesman rope! If you fall a couple feet on a linesman rope while it’s at your knees, that would be equivalent to a 1.5 to 2 fall factor. Be safe my friends as if your life is hanging by a strand (because it literally is)
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Excuse me, the 170 lbs man produced 980 lbs on his highest shock load. So a 240 lbs man would over 1100 on a dynamic line and probably more on a fully static line. Yes I realized one of his slings were dyneema which is very static but even he brings up the other equipment is all connected to dynamic rope including his catch harness. The dynamic rope absolutely absorbed some of the force regardless. I think it is safe to say that shock load is real! This is also why I personally like nylon webbing for saddles as opposed to polyester seatbelt webbing, because nylon stretches more thus absorbing more shock (IF) a fall were to occur. Thanks for the awesome video
 
Weldabeast said:
@kyler1945 don't I remember u having a thread somewhere in here with a energy absorbing tether?

U just have to calculate where the"real"end of the tether is so if the stitching did pop u would still be in a safe location. The safety harnesses I have to wear to work sometimes have like 6-10 foot of length stitched up.... So if I was 10-12 foot up and fall I could still hit the ground hypothetically...I have slipped and been hanging and seen other people fall short distances and never seen the stitching start to pop... U would have to drop a long way to build up the force to begin the stitches coming out and it working as intended IMO
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I did.

after Much reflection I removed any posts where I gave specific advice on climbing equipment/techniques, or implied that I had any sort of climbing or rope certification or qualification.

many of the same ideas I’ve explored have been hit on in other threads. Honestly, the site scares me now. So I just try to get people to think critically about the risks they’re taking, and do better math on assessing upside of taking those risks.

I don’t want someone to die feeling unmerited confidence in something because of my words.
 
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