Putting this out there to help organize my thoughts and hopefully help some folks out. I'll try and update periodically throughout the season. Below are links to 3 other wordy threads where I outline my (Dr. Sheppards, mostly) general thoughts on deer hunting.
Part 1 - https://saddlehunter.com/community/index.php?threads/access-to-quality-whitetail-habitat.29115/
Part 2 - https://saddlehunter.com/community/index.php?threads/hunting-where-the-pressure-is-light.31952/
Part 3 - https://saddlehunter.com/community/index.php?threads/hunting-in-the-right-place.32998/
So I've killed to the best of my record-keeping ability 41 deer. Most of those within the past 10 years and most on public. I consider myself a successful deer hunter. That said, I stack odds in my favor as best as I can. I have chosen spouses, homes, and jobs based on how well they meshed with my hunting season. Many people are not as crazy and selfish. I also do not believe in self handicapping. I have no problem shooting any legal deer. Any. Legal. Deer. With any legal weapon. Most people are not as bloodthirsty.
Honestly, 80% of that is just me being me. I like finding, shooting, cleaning, and eating deer. I like it more than anything else in life and like to do it as much as I can. But, there's a little method in the mania. I have shot deer I didn't want to fool with tracking, cleaning, and eating because I believe repetition is key to learning. I have danced the dance of a successful hunt 41 times. I've got the music and the steps memorized. I'm way better at it than I was on my 1st or 10th or 20th time. I'll start by saying that I would encourage anybody who wants to be a trophy or even just a buck hunter to reconsider the popular mandate to "let 'em grow," or "pass" on deer.
But that said after killing 21 deer in the past 2 years, I consider myself ready to explore the "big buck hunter" role. Quick aside; I've killed what I consider my share of good bucks on public land. Out of 41 deer 8 are nice enough to be hanging on my wall. Honestly, I think for many hunters switching gear from "I'm going to kill me a big deer!" to "I'm going to kill the first thing that walks out" would either not change or positively impact their potential to shoot bucks. You can definitely end up with some nice deer throughout the years that way, and as a bonus you get a lot of venison!
That said, I want to switch my mindset for the season. I've taken a bit of time to define my goals to myself. First, I am limited to hunting Alabama for now. Second, I prefer to hunt public land. What is a "public land trophy buck" in that state. According to conversations with state biologists and a lifetime of hunting, any buck that exceeds 100" is a very solid buck for most of the state. They can and do grow much bigger, but a quick perusal of the record books will show that Alabama is NOT a big buck state. Your odds of running into a 140 or 150" deer are literally one in millions.
I think it's important to do some research and really define what a "good buck" is for your area. And I think for your sanity you should take the slow route and shoot deer so you can shoot bucks so you can shoot BIG bucks. I'm on step 2 or 2.5. I'm not looking to make the record books.
So on to the meat and potatoes. How does one transition from ALD (any legal deer) to MBO (mature bucks only) hunting? What changes and what stays the same?
In my mind, everything I've learned and tried to outline in the first 3 links above should still be bedrock truth. I want Access to Quality Habitat, Low Pressure within that area, and a stand location based on the deceptively simple idea that deer Eat, Hide, and Procreate with no real ability to think beyond these things. None of that changes. I believe this is the core knowledge that you have to internalize to be a good hunter, and that most of the deer talk out there is either a reskin or more detailed explanation of these ideas, inconsequential minutia of questionable value, or plain misinformation and BS. Archer tackle, camo patterns, scent control, treestand selection, and a host of other things are more entertainment than useful ideas to spend time contemplating.
Something else that I believe counter to popular opinion, and that I will continue to believe unless this year shows otherwise, is that the difficulty between harvesting a doe/young buck and a mature buck is overstated and falsely attributed to increased intelligence, cunning, survival skills, woodsmanship, etc. Deer are a smooth brained prey species and I believe the difference between the very smartest and very dumbest deer is likely too small to be noticeable to a human of average intelligence. If anything the older a brain gets, the less adept it becomes at making new neural connections so an older organism should show less ability to adapt to new information and patterns such as a piece of timber suddenly being logged or a private parcel being leased by the state and experiencing more pressure. He doesn't have a sharper nose, keener eyes, or more sensitive ears. I do not believe a big buck has any mental or even physical properties that noticeably segment him from the rest of the species EXCEPT for increased size that allows him to quite literally shove other deer out of his way. He may always have the best hiding spots, travel routes, and food source but he doesn't have it because he is smart and other deer are dumb. He has it because even though every deer in the woods knows those are good things, he is bigger so...sucks to not be him!
I believe basic statistics and basic biology support my theory. In a short-lived prey species with high reproductive rates and high mortality, there will always be more young than elderly. And when you have a very unnatural predator who selectively kills accounting not for ease of killing and eating (which would result in a roughly 50-50 mix between sexes and a preference for some combination of infirm, very young, or very old) but for sex and health (strong preference for male at the peak of fitness) you will have an even more skewed ration between old and young deer. Take an already small subset (deer who have survived to 4.5 years or better) and split it in half (just the males) and a mature buck becomes a 1 in 100 or 1 in 1,000 animal. I think this scarcity, and not any ability that can be attributed to a buck, makes him a tough target to acquire.
So what does this mean? Basically, my strategy for this year does not change much. I don't really plan on hunting higher in a tree, or wearing a ghillie suit, or upping my scent control game, or spending more time plotting what a deer could be thinking and feeling while he's moving through a tract, or doing anything really to account for a notion that I'm hunting a wilier animal. I am thinking about it in terms of finding a smaller needle in the same size haystack.
To that end, I've revisited the spreadsheet I made with trophy, harvest, and demographic data. I have selected about 8 counties out of 68 in my state where the numbers say I have a remarkably higher chance of stumbling across a mature buck while hunting. I whittled that down to 4 that are within feasible weekend hunt distance and plan on driving 1.5 to 3 hours each weekend and doing a whole lot of car camping.
I've also broken my rule about no summertime scouting. Most of the parcels I've identified are new to me. I do not like summer scouting because in addition to summer in the deep south being a horrible time to be in the woods, you get very little useful intel. Deer pattern now are not what they will be when acorns start dropping and pressure hits. Last years rut sign is dim. And I have a harder time seeing the deer that I just jumped and determining age, sex, and quantity. But I'm pressed for time and what I regard as the most important sign is visible still, albeit barely.
Big rubs. In almost every area where I have killed a big buck, put somebody else on a big buck, or seen a big buck, I have identified larger than average rubs in that area. These rubs stand out because they are usually around hip high vs knee high, located on bigger trees, show distinctive scarring from antler base pearling, more likely to be accompanied by a licking branch, have broken branches, and show damage to brush behind or beside the actual rub. Currently, I stand as a believer that while a big buck may make a small rub and a small buck may make a large rub, a rub that fits the above criteria very likely belongs to a good buck and is the surest indicator that big bucks exist in an area. Finding sizeable sheds is also nice and I have done it, but a buck will leave more rubs than sheds and they last longer. And of course, jumping a deer with nice velvet antlers this time of year is also acceptable proof of potential.
Last weekend I went to a new-to-me parcel of public that fit my general criteria for "potential big buck spot." It has good soil, low human population, and is in a big buck county. Unfortunately, what I predicted was the result I got from scouting. It's good to great deer hunting, and questionable big buck hunting. The habitat looked good. I saw extremely little hunter sign. I jumped 3 deer walking it. There's food, cover, and identifiable travel routes and funnels between those things. There's even buck sign. But there were no big rubs and the bachelor group of bucks I saw cross the road 2 miles away were all little nubbies.
Is it possible that there is a good buck in that area come hunting season? Absolutely! Am I tempted to go back? Oh my gosh, yes!! I very much want to believe that a little more looking could turn up a few big rubs, or that since the area is obviously solid that come rut a nice buck may cruise the main rubline I found. But...
I have acquired some faith in my scouting abilities recently. Over the past 2 years I have had 3 opportunities to scout and hunt 3 subparcels of land that were sections of a larger area that is draw-permit only. Very nice hunting with antler restrictions and strict management. Each tract was roughly 500-600 acres in size and located within 2-3 miles of one another, but they had very different features and scouting revealed very different sign and hunting results varied greatly.
Parcel number 1 I jumped literally dozens of deer, several of which were bucks. 1 was a very nice buck that I instantly knew made antler restrictions. There were several areas that had desirable rubs as I have described them. After seeing all of that, I told my dad that I believed it was very possible for both of us to kill a nice buck on it, and almost certain to kill 1 between us. My dad shot his biggest buck ever on the first sit, and after 3 days of hard hunting I finally shot a respectable buck as well.
Parcel number 2 I scouted with a buddy. I jumped plenty of deer, but only located 1 area that said "big buck." It was a creek drainage where we jumped a nice looking but smallish buck, found a respectable shed antler, and came across a few nice rubs. I told my buddy I thought we had a decent chance at a buck but didn't feel like it was a slam dunk tract. We had a great weekend playing cat and mouse with a bachelor group in early archery season, and I almost took a shot at the biggest buck but passed because he was borderline and it was the first day. My buddy had the same scenario play out the next day. Day 3 I located what I believe was a different deer, but it was on the very edge of the property close to neighboring private and I don't believe that property was really his core area. About a month later an acquaintance also got drawn to hunt that parcel and had no luck getting on a buck.
Parcel number 3 I scouted and was frankly a little upset. Once again, awesome habitat and I jumped lots of deer. However, while I did find 2 small sheds and some rubs, I saw no big bucks and no big buck sign. My dad and I hunted it hard for 3 days and shot 5 does, but never saw a single buck older than 1.5.
In all 3 scenarios the hunting matched the scouting. While "anything is possible" I believe that a reasonably competent hunter should expect the hunting to always match the scouting, and never let high hopes get in the way of common sense. I do not think it makes sense to hold out hopes for deer that are not leaving sign. If you do you're hoping, and not hunting. Given that a good, honest scouting trip revealed does and young bucks, I assume that if you hunted that area you would be very likely to kill those things, and not that likely to kill a big buck. Conclusion? Keep looking!
I am anticipating that this will be the greatest challenge of killing a mature buck. Finding him in the first place. Fortunately I have lots of public property in likely areas. Unfortunately I have limited time to devote to picking the right parcel. I do have 2 properties "in reserve" with 3 stands that I believe are very good. I would like at the barest minimum to find one more. Then in theory I should have 3 properties that hold good bucks, 3 buck tags, and 4 stands to hunt. I'd hunt the best one opening weekend and hope to catch a deer off guard, and rotate between the 4 during the rut.
Which brings me to another thought. Most big bucks get shot during the rut. I've noticed that the increased deer activity this period brings usually only lasts a week to 2 weeks in my area. During that time period hunting is good and even a non hunter who is observant will often comment on seeing lots of deer while driving around rural areas. Luckily, between the several areas I have identified there are 3 distinct rut timeframes according to the state. I can potentially rut hunt from December 25th until February 10th. That should be a major advantage perhaps unique to my general geographic region. But it also means that to fully capitalize on that I need 3 times as many rut stand locations.
In general, I anticipate that success will hinge on more driving and scouting and less sitting and hunting. For the past 5 years I have been able to fill at least 1 tag with a nice buck, and I have what I regard as above-average amount of experience killing deer in general. I am not particularly worried with my ability to "finish" on a deer. IE know when to take the shot, make the shot a good one, and find the dead deer. I do worry about not being able to locate enough good hunting locations to support 3 good bucks, and my own baser instincts shouting at me to murder the first little 6 that walks out. I also wonder if years of setting up with the intent to kill the first victim will impede success. Eberhart sure thinks it will.
I know that's a wall of text. Maybe it helps someone. Just getting it in writing has helped cement my plan in my mind. I'd love to talk turkey with anybody who has a history of regularly shooting big deer, especially if you disagree with my thoughts. I may be an argumentative cuss but I genuinely like to have my beliefs line up with reality. A fella who goes through life believing 2+2=5 is in for a rough existence.
Part 1 - https://saddlehunter.com/community/index.php?threads/access-to-quality-whitetail-habitat.29115/
Part 2 - https://saddlehunter.com/community/index.php?threads/hunting-where-the-pressure-is-light.31952/
Part 3 - https://saddlehunter.com/community/index.php?threads/hunting-in-the-right-place.32998/
So I've killed to the best of my record-keeping ability 41 deer. Most of those within the past 10 years and most on public. I consider myself a successful deer hunter. That said, I stack odds in my favor as best as I can. I have chosen spouses, homes, and jobs based on how well they meshed with my hunting season. Many people are not as crazy and selfish. I also do not believe in self handicapping. I have no problem shooting any legal deer. Any. Legal. Deer. With any legal weapon. Most people are not as bloodthirsty.
Honestly, 80% of that is just me being me. I like finding, shooting, cleaning, and eating deer. I like it more than anything else in life and like to do it as much as I can. But, there's a little method in the mania. I have shot deer I didn't want to fool with tracking, cleaning, and eating because I believe repetition is key to learning. I have danced the dance of a successful hunt 41 times. I've got the music and the steps memorized. I'm way better at it than I was on my 1st or 10th or 20th time. I'll start by saying that I would encourage anybody who wants to be a trophy or even just a buck hunter to reconsider the popular mandate to "let 'em grow," or "pass" on deer.
But that said after killing 21 deer in the past 2 years, I consider myself ready to explore the "big buck hunter" role. Quick aside; I've killed what I consider my share of good bucks on public land. Out of 41 deer 8 are nice enough to be hanging on my wall. Honestly, I think for many hunters switching gear from "I'm going to kill me a big deer!" to "I'm going to kill the first thing that walks out" would either not change or positively impact their potential to shoot bucks. You can definitely end up with some nice deer throughout the years that way, and as a bonus you get a lot of venison!
That said, I want to switch my mindset for the season. I've taken a bit of time to define my goals to myself. First, I am limited to hunting Alabama for now. Second, I prefer to hunt public land. What is a "public land trophy buck" in that state. According to conversations with state biologists and a lifetime of hunting, any buck that exceeds 100" is a very solid buck for most of the state. They can and do grow much bigger, but a quick perusal of the record books will show that Alabama is NOT a big buck state. Your odds of running into a 140 or 150" deer are literally one in millions.
I think it's important to do some research and really define what a "good buck" is for your area. And I think for your sanity you should take the slow route and shoot deer so you can shoot bucks so you can shoot BIG bucks. I'm on step 2 or 2.5. I'm not looking to make the record books.
So on to the meat and potatoes. How does one transition from ALD (any legal deer) to MBO (mature bucks only) hunting? What changes and what stays the same?
In my mind, everything I've learned and tried to outline in the first 3 links above should still be bedrock truth. I want Access to Quality Habitat, Low Pressure within that area, and a stand location based on the deceptively simple idea that deer Eat, Hide, and Procreate with no real ability to think beyond these things. None of that changes. I believe this is the core knowledge that you have to internalize to be a good hunter, and that most of the deer talk out there is either a reskin or more detailed explanation of these ideas, inconsequential minutia of questionable value, or plain misinformation and BS. Archer tackle, camo patterns, scent control, treestand selection, and a host of other things are more entertainment than useful ideas to spend time contemplating.
Something else that I believe counter to popular opinion, and that I will continue to believe unless this year shows otherwise, is that the difficulty between harvesting a doe/young buck and a mature buck is overstated and falsely attributed to increased intelligence, cunning, survival skills, woodsmanship, etc. Deer are a smooth brained prey species and I believe the difference between the very smartest and very dumbest deer is likely too small to be noticeable to a human of average intelligence. If anything the older a brain gets, the less adept it becomes at making new neural connections so an older organism should show less ability to adapt to new information and patterns such as a piece of timber suddenly being logged or a private parcel being leased by the state and experiencing more pressure. He doesn't have a sharper nose, keener eyes, or more sensitive ears. I do not believe a big buck has any mental or even physical properties that noticeably segment him from the rest of the species EXCEPT for increased size that allows him to quite literally shove other deer out of his way. He may always have the best hiding spots, travel routes, and food source but he doesn't have it because he is smart and other deer are dumb. He has it because even though every deer in the woods knows those are good things, he is bigger so...sucks to not be him!
I believe basic statistics and basic biology support my theory. In a short-lived prey species with high reproductive rates and high mortality, there will always be more young than elderly. And when you have a very unnatural predator who selectively kills accounting not for ease of killing and eating (which would result in a roughly 50-50 mix between sexes and a preference for some combination of infirm, very young, or very old) but for sex and health (strong preference for male at the peak of fitness) you will have an even more skewed ration between old and young deer. Take an already small subset (deer who have survived to 4.5 years or better) and split it in half (just the males) and a mature buck becomes a 1 in 100 or 1 in 1,000 animal. I think this scarcity, and not any ability that can be attributed to a buck, makes him a tough target to acquire.
So what does this mean? Basically, my strategy for this year does not change much. I don't really plan on hunting higher in a tree, or wearing a ghillie suit, or upping my scent control game, or spending more time plotting what a deer could be thinking and feeling while he's moving through a tract, or doing anything really to account for a notion that I'm hunting a wilier animal. I am thinking about it in terms of finding a smaller needle in the same size haystack.
To that end, I've revisited the spreadsheet I made with trophy, harvest, and demographic data. I have selected about 8 counties out of 68 in my state where the numbers say I have a remarkably higher chance of stumbling across a mature buck while hunting. I whittled that down to 4 that are within feasible weekend hunt distance and plan on driving 1.5 to 3 hours each weekend and doing a whole lot of car camping.
I've also broken my rule about no summertime scouting. Most of the parcels I've identified are new to me. I do not like summer scouting because in addition to summer in the deep south being a horrible time to be in the woods, you get very little useful intel. Deer pattern now are not what they will be when acorns start dropping and pressure hits. Last years rut sign is dim. And I have a harder time seeing the deer that I just jumped and determining age, sex, and quantity. But I'm pressed for time and what I regard as the most important sign is visible still, albeit barely.
Big rubs. In almost every area where I have killed a big buck, put somebody else on a big buck, or seen a big buck, I have identified larger than average rubs in that area. These rubs stand out because they are usually around hip high vs knee high, located on bigger trees, show distinctive scarring from antler base pearling, more likely to be accompanied by a licking branch, have broken branches, and show damage to brush behind or beside the actual rub. Currently, I stand as a believer that while a big buck may make a small rub and a small buck may make a large rub, a rub that fits the above criteria very likely belongs to a good buck and is the surest indicator that big bucks exist in an area. Finding sizeable sheds is also nice and I have done it, but a buck will leave more rubs than sheds and they last longer. And of course, jumping a deer with nice velvet antlers this time of year is also acceptable proof of potential.
Last weekend I went to a new-to-me parcel of public that fit my general criteria for "potential big buck spot." It has good soil, low human population, and is in a big buck county. Unfortunately, what I predicted was the result I got from scouting. It's good to great deer hunting, and questionable big buck hunting. The habitat looked good. I saw extremely little hunter sign. I jumped 3 deer walking it. There's food, cover, and identifiable travel routes and funnels between those things. There's even buck sign. But there were no big rubs and the bachelor group of bucks I saw cross the road 2 miles away were all little nubbies.
Is it possible that there is a good buck in that area come hunting season? Absolutely! Am I tempted to go back? Oh my gosh, yes!! I very much want to believe that a little more looking could turn up a few big rubs, or that since the area is obviously solid that come rut a nice buck may cruise the main rubline I found. But...
I have acquired some faith in my scouting abilities recently. Over the past 2 years I have had 3 opportunities to scout and hunt 3 subparcels of land that were sections of a larger area that is draw-permit only. Very nice hunting with antler restrictions and strict management. Each tract was roughly 500-600 acres in size and located within 2-3 miles of one another, but they had very different features and scouting revealed very different sign and hunting results varied greatly.
Parcel number 1 I jumped literally dozens of deer, several of which were bucks. 1 was a very nice buck that I instantly knew made antler restrictions. There were several areas that had desirable rubs as I have described them. After seeing all of that, I told my dad that I believed it was very possible for both of us to kill a nice buck on it, and almost certain to kill 1 between us. My dad shot his biggest buck ever on the first sit, and after 3 days of hard hunting I finally shot a respectable buck as well.
Parcel number 2 I scouted with a buddy. I jumped plenty of deer, but only located 1 area that said "big buck." It was a creek drainage where we jumped a nice looking but smallish buck, found a respectable shed antler, and came across a few nice rubs. I told my buddy I thought we had a decent chance at a buck but didn't feel like it was a slam dunk tract. We had a great weekend playing cat and mouse with a bachelor group in early archery season, and I almost took a shot at the biggest buck but passed because he was borderline and it was the first day. My buddy had the same scenario play out the next day. Day 3 I located what I believe was a different deer, but it was on the very edge of the property close to neighboring private and I don't believe that property was really his core area. About a month later an acquaintance also got drawn to hunt that parcel and had no luck getting on a buck.
Parcel number 3 I scouted and was frankly a little upset. Once again, awesome habitat and I jumped lots of deer. However, while I did find 2 small sheds and some rubs, I saw no big bucks and no big buck sign. My dad and I hunted it hard for 3 days and shot 5 does, but never saw a single buck older than 1.5.
In all 3 scenarios the hunting matched the scouting. While "anything is possible" I believe that a reasonably competent hunter should expect the hunting to always match the scouting, and never let high hopes get in the way of common sense. I do not think it makes sense to hold out hopes for deer that are not leaving sign. If you do you're hoping, and not hunting. Given that a good, honest scouting trip revealed does and young bucks, I assume that if you hunted that area you would be very likely to kill those things, and not that likely to kill a big buck. Conclusion? Keep looking!
I am anticipating that this will be the greatest challenge of killing a mature buck. Finding him in the first place. Fortunately I have lots of public property in likely areas. Unfortunately I have limited time to devote to picking the right parcel. I do have 2 properties "in reserve" with 3 stands that I believe are very good. I would like at the barest minimum to find one more. Then in theory I should have 3 properties that hold good bucks, 3 buck tags, and 4 stands to hunt. I'd hunt the best one opening weekend and hope to catch a deer off guard, and rotate between the 4 during the rut.
Which brings me to another thought. Most big bucks get shot during the rut. I've noticed that the increased deer activity this period brings usually only lasts a week to 2 weeks in my area. During that time period hunting is good and even a non hunter who is observant will often comment on seeing lots of deer while driving around rural areas. Luckily, between the several areas I have identified there are 3 distinct rut timeframes according to the state. I can potentially rut hunt from December 25th until February 10th. That should be a major advantage perhaps unique to my general geographic region. But it also means that to fully capitalize on that I need 3 times as many rut stand locations.
In general, I anticipate that success will hinge on more driving and scouting and less sitting and hunting. For the past 5 years I have been able to fill at least 1 tag with a nice buck, and I have what I regard as above-average amount of experience killing deer in general. I am not particularly worried with my ability to "finish" on a deer. IE know when to take the shot, make the shot a good one, and find the dead deer. I do worry about not being able to locate enough good hunting locations to support 3 good bucks, and my own baser instincts shouting at me to murder the first little 6 that walks out. I also wonder if years of setting up with the intent to kill the first victim will impede success. Eberhart sure thinks it will.
I know that's a wall of text. Maybe it helps someone. Just getting it in writing has helped cement my plan in my mind. I'd love to talk turkey with anybody who has a history of regularly shooting big deer, especially if you disagree with my thoughts. I may be an argumentative cuss but I genuinely like to have my beliefs line up with reality. A fella who goes through life believing 2+2=5 is in for a rough existence.
