What makes 1 better than the other?
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To FOC or NOT
- Thread starter BRAY2KAY
- Start date
What makes 1 better than the other?
tcmetrohunter
Well-Known Member
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- Oct 12, 2019
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Good question. In my limited experience the 440C that GS uses is nice because it's stainless but because it's stainless it's softer than the steel that Iron Will uses. Downside of the IW is it isn't stainless so it can rust if not cared for properly in a wet environment.
440C being softer sharpens easier than the IW but that comes at a cost. You can get a very sharp edge with the 440C but it's not as durable as the A2 steel IW uses so it's possible for it to lose it's razor sharp edge easier when hitting bone. I also think because of harder A2 steel on the IW it actually gets sharper than the 440C as well.
For example I missed a deer this year and my arrow buried in the soft ground about 6 inches. Pulled it out and the edge on my Samurai was all dinged up requiring me to spend a bunch of time fixing it. My friend shot several deer with a IW and went into the dirt several times. All he had to do is strop and re use.
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RamBam
Active Member
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If you don’t want to spend a ton of coin. Get some arrows and try them and try different spines. I found victory rip tko with some homemade footers to be one stupid tough arrow combo. Easton axis are fairly cheap and easy to build. If you aren’t exactly looking to go micro shaft etc. gold tip hunter xt are cheap. As for broadheads pick your poison. Many have a excellent warranty. None are bullet proof. Your even more screwed if you miss and loose it lol.
What is your current arrow and broadhead set up fixed blade ,expandable?
BRAY2KAY
Active Member
Fmj rage hypodermic. Would like to go fixed blade either single bevel or double but find a fix blade that shoots like my field points
fixed blades don’t shoot. They get shot. A tuned bow, with arrows built properly, shot by a person with perfectly consistent form, can shoot larger surface area broadheads, than can a bow shot 30 times a year, with wal mart arrows built with a four year olds effort and attention span, shot by someone who can’t tel you when they make a good shot.
fixed heads don’t fly well for most people, because most people suck at setting up their equipment, practicing with it, and executing under pressure. I don’t like mechanicals, but I am more convinced of their usefulness after having met people.
the one thing that studies on broadhead efficacy miss, is that hunter incompetency is baked in. One major reason mechanicals correlate to the degree they do with found deer, is that hunters shooting fixed and mechanicals both suck. the advantage of mechanicals needing less precise shooting to fly properly, thus hitting their mark, and usually in a straighter line, equals dead deer. My suspicion is that if you control for hunter incompetency, the pendulum swings wildly in favor of fixed heads.
too long don’t read - broadheads will fly according to your shooting and equipment setup.
BRAY2KAY
Active Member
I lost you at the first comment. Thanks
Homebrew454
Well-Known Member
I spent a lot of time this spring bare shaft tuning my new arrows for my setup. I achieved a perfect bullet hole and then shot them with Zingers. I had always shot expandables but this year I made the switch to fixed blades. They shot perfect and hit exactly where my field points did.
I just have to comment on the ranch fairy's paper tuning method with the elite bow he was sent. (Only video of his I had the stomach to watch this year because I was looking at upgrading to an elite). He got it "close" but said it was good enough for his shooting. He could have spent less than 5 minutes more and had it perfect. I put my bows on a bow press to get them perfect and it takes a long time.
I know that when you achieve a consistent perfect bullet hole you're putting all of the bow's energy into the arrow. Perfect arrow flight will lead to better penetration.
I also know micro diameter arrows will penetrate better than larger arrows. I remember the days of large diameter aluminum arrows that were heavy. I switched to lighter carbon arrows that were smaller diameter and got better penetration when I switched.
My arrow setup was Victory Vap SS 300s. 125 grain head and ethics outserts/inserts (I forgot what the outsert/nsert weighs). Total arrow weight is 543 grains. I have no idea what FOC is but if I would guess they would be near 18-20%.
I really like these arrows. They're really strong and micro diameter. Just wish I would have been able to test them out on an animal.
My old arrows were 412 grains and I had 2 inch expandables bury 8 inches into the ground after pass throughs.
Another long post but I would recommend a decent micro diameter shaft with total arrow weight 520-550.
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BRAY2KAY
Active Member
What I did get tho is hunters suck. I've shot bows since I was able to i know exactly what I can do with a cheap arrow or expensive just looking to help myself out a bit.
Homebrew454
Well-Known Member
I looked at the GS but didn't think the cost was worth it. I also looked at Day 6 arrows and decided on Victory Vap SS 300s. I saved a lot of money and I think they will out penetrate the GS at the same arrow weight.
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BRAY2KAY
Active Member
I've been looking into the day 6. I bought my wife grizzlystik and it has been a game changer for her because of the added weight.
see post 13
Homebrew454
Well-Known Member
Added weight will make it easier to tune for your coc broadheads. I just think overall a 520-550 is a great medium for hunting. Still keeps speed decent so not as much drop at distance. Plus you get the decent penetration. I think GS kind of falsely advertise though. They claim to be .204 diameter but that is the inside diameter from what I read. They do taper down from front to back.
I would buy Day 6 arrows over GS. I just couldn't justify the price for what I got the Vapors for.
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tcmetrohunter
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I think at the end of the day if you try a few different arrows even from different manufacturers your achieve your intended result.
Big thing for me this year learning how to bare shaft and paper tune and just the over all tinkering with arrows and such was getting a bow that I can play with at home with out a press. That way I can spend an hour here and an hour there depending on naps and such since I have little ones. It's honestly fun to me play with the arrows and weights because to me it's like building bullets for a rifle but I can shoot it at home. If I had a chrono I'd really be set.
Just remember you're looking for an arrow that flys well and gives you the trajectory that you want. Once you have that then you can put a fixed blade on it and see how it does, then adjust as needed to get the field points and broad heads to impact the same.
Another tip is if you're going to tinker with your rest and yokes is to get the Bow Shop Bible. Also the video the Ashby foundation has on tuning is a good one too.
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Big thing for me this year learning how to bare shaft and paper tune and just the over all tinkering with arrows and such was getting a bow that I can play with at home with out a press. That way I can spend an hour here and an hour there depending on naps and such since I have little ones. It's honestly fun to me play with the arrows and weights because to me it's like building bullets for a rifle but I can shoot it at home. If I had a chrono I'd really be set.
Just remember you're looking for an arrow that flys well and gives you the trajectory that you want. Once you have that then you can put a fixed blade on it and see how it does, then adjust as needed to get the field points and broad heads to impact the same.
Another tip is if you're going to tinker with your rest and yokes is to get the Bow Shop Bible. Also the video the Ashby foundation has on tuning is a good one too.
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overspined
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All you have to do is read Ashby reports and follow his guidance to do the best with what we have. However for deer I literally worry 0.0%of the time. Wood arrow, 32# longbow, death. 40# death, 50# death. It doesn’t matter. You literally need like 7-8” of penetration on a broadside hit. If you can’t do that, the shot wasn’t set up right, or too far, or jitters or whatever. I mean if crying about a broken arrow here’s advice I heard from a 6 year old kid at a shoot “if you can’t afford to lose an arrow you shouldn’t be out here”. Obviously I am kidding around here some. Good luck!
on a serious note, the arrow is more important than the bow, so your hunt for the perfect arrow is the right path to take. COC broadhead, skinny shaft, and you’re fine for deer. Getting all super FOC fletch messin etc is fine if you have the money and time to tinker. But really can be reserved for more extreme critters. I’ve killed so many with just a cedar shaft and glue on head that it’s not rocket science with deer, expandable a of all sorts, COC of all sorts. Placement and flight. Deer are just not big enough to worry much.
on a serious note, the arrow is more important than the bow, so your hunt for the perfect arrow is the right path to take. COC broadhead, skinny shaft, and you’re fine for deer. Getting all super FOC fletch messin etc is fine if you have the money and time to tinker. But really can be reserved for more extreme critters. I’ve killed so many with just a cedar shaft and glue on head that it’s not rocket science with deer, expandable a of all sorts, COC of all sorts. Placement and flight. Deer are just not big enough to worry much.
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michigandrake
Well-Known Member
A steel single bevel is going to be 200 grains and up. If you commit to the Grizzsticks you will be north of 600 grains. Have you ever shot that heavy? We all have different ideas on what an acceptable hunting trajectory looks like. The number one pitfall of going this direction is being too heavy for your trajectory tastes.
Samurai also come in 150s, I seem to remember 125s too but I can't swear on that.
Correct. The Samurai is available as a 125 Gr and 200 Gr. They also have the Overkill line which is available in those weight plus 150 and 175. I'll also say that you don't need to limit yourself to the GS broadheads. They're great, however there are plenty of other heads that can be paired with their arrows to still give you what your looking for. Kudu Point has heads in 100, 125, and 150 all as single bevel 2 blade COC. Iron will also goes from 125 to 225 in 25 gr increments.
I bought the arrow test pack this year for Christmas from GS. I ordered it in the 650 GR pack so we'll see what I think of them. When doing my initial research I felt fairly confident in going that route, however I'm thinking something just under the 600 gr weight may be more appropriate. We'll see though and roll from there.
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Thanks for expanding on the info.
My post was to correct his statement that all steel single bevels are 200gr or better.
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