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Weather or not?
- Thread starter Plebe
- Start date
It sounds like they might figure out how to pay for a study to suss out what impacts deer movement on a micro level…
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- Sep 14, 2020
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@kyler1945 mentioned it in another thread but didn't want to derail that topic. I looked up the video and thought it worth circulating.
I kind of hunt whenever my pretty restrictive schedule allows, so picking ideal conditions is neither here nor there for me. But I'd still love to have the data from the deer studies, (sounds like that will be made available) and the Drury's camera files and hunting logs as well, to sift through on my own.
I felt Terry was pretty classy and thoughtful; obviously the initial thesis is a bit shocking and seemingly at odds with what they've built. It would be great if there was a future collaboration.
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Cliff notes? I don't do podcasts.
My take was a little different in that I do not see each side of the discussion as being at odds at all. I actually came away from it thinking they were much closer than I originally thought, esp when you add Bronson's comments into the equation. Scale and scope matter, esp. when you start making an argument based on the statistics. It is natural for people to put faith in and argue in support of the statistics that back up what they perceive to be correct, even more so when that aligns with how they choose to hunt. Does weather matter, does the moon matter, etc. People dont like to be told they are wrong or their methods are faulty. I am way past that, I want to understand to the best of my ability all of the factors that have influence on my hunts so that I can make the best decisions possible about where, when, why and how I choose to hunt. A combined study like they were talking about would connect a lot of dots in relation to movement pattern as it relates to food, bedding rut etc combined with being able to better see any relationships with weather, moon, etc. The missing piece for a lot of us would be the addition of pressure that comes from hunting public ground or heavily pressured private. Dr. Bronson touched on that as well with the observed shifts in travel when pressure was introduced. If we do our part in analyzing the terrain we hunt, we should be able to determine, a fair number of times, how and where those shifts will occur.
You should do that one if you like to nerd out on deer data.
I'll put it on the list for the next blue moon. I just can't listen to people jibber jabber for more than a minute or two. It's a personality flaw, I know...
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From what I can tell MSU is giving a bird's eye view and the Drury's are giving a gnat's eye view.
Neither finding is at odds with the other.
This is why topics like this are impossible to discuss on the internet. The mechanics of it don’t allow for that level of detail.
Dr. Strickland is the PR apparatus of their work. He knows that for the diverse audience he’s communicating with, he can ONLY put forth general conclusions based on reliable data they’ve already gathered. His reputation, and that of their project, are at stake.
He necessarily HAS to say zero correlation between weather and daytime deer movement(or sightings, if that’s your jam). Because there isn’t one - IN THEIR DATA. If he tells people he thinks there is or isn’t, and he’s proven wrong, people will discount all of their work. People like to assume their intentions and past behavior matter in assessment of their own mistakes or wrong doings. But they don’t extend the same grace to others. He’s a brilliant fellow to be able to navigate this line.
Just because they can’t or haven’t measured it, doesn’t mean it’s not there.
Having said that, this isn’t the same as the moon phase conversation happening next door. We’ve been able to control for that variable, and it’s not a reliable predictor of daytime deer movement. Temperature was also controlled for, and a strong correlation, in fact the only useful correlation found, between relative temperature and daytime deer activity.(in the south, for the people who will say it’s useless because of that)
Dr. Strickland can do a study to replicate what’s already been observed, or disprove it. They just haven’t yet. And don’t have the money. It appears based on that conversation the Drury’s pride and ego being challenged may get that money spout pointed jn the right direction. Hopefully that challenge was strong enough. Again, my hat’s off to Dr. Strickland for threading that needle when the pressure is on. He’s missed his calling in high level public relations.
This is why topics like this are impossible to discuss on the internet. The mechanics of it don’t allow for that level of detail.
Dr. Strickland is the PR apparatus of their work. He knows that for the diverse audience he’s communicating with, he can ONLY put forth general conclusions based on reliable data they’ve already gathered. His reputation, and that of their project, are at stake.
He necessarily HAS to say zero correlation between weather and daytime deer movement(or sightings, if that’s your jam). Because there isn’t one - IN THEIR DATA. If he tells people he thinks there is or isn’t, and he’s proven wrong, people will discount all of their work. People like to assume their intentions and past behavior matter in assessment of their own mistakes or wrong doings. But they don’t extend the same grace to others. He’s a brilliant fellow to be able to navigate this line.
Just because they can’t or haven’t measured it, doesn’t mean it’s not there.
Having said that, this isn’t the same as the moon phase conversation happening next door. We’ve been able to control for that variable, and it’s not a reliable predictor of daytime deer movement. Temperature was also controlled for, and a strong correlation, in fact the only useful correlation found, between relative temperature and daytime deer activity.(in the south, for the people who will say it’s useless because of that)
Dr. Strickland can do a study to replicate what’s already been observed, or disprove it. They just haven’t yet. And don’t have the money. It appears based on that conversation the Drury’s pride and ego being challenged may get that money spout pointed jn the right direction. Hopefully that challenge was strong enough. Again, my hat’s off to Dr. Strickland for threading that needle when the pressure is on. He’s missed his calling in high level public relations.
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- Sep 4, 2019
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There’s a few other guys that hunt the same property as me… I have a few ideas for creating a few key movement corridors via downing some trees and creating brush barriers. But then I think, I’m the one most willing to do the more difficult hunts, so how much do I want to level the playing field. It’s not that I don’t want these other guys to succeed, but some of the fun is getting the edge, since we’re all seeing the same camera images etc.
I’m starting to think about this research the same way… do I want us all to have the truth, it sure is tempting, or better to maintain the mystery and potential competitive edge to those who might be able to sift out some patterns?
I’m starting to think about this research the same way… do I want us all to have the truth, it sure is tempting, or better to maintain the mystery and potential competitive edge to those who might be able to sift out some patterns?
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- Sep 1, 2020
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I love this kind of stuff. Wish I had gone into Wildlife biology as a career. I was listening to NDA's Coffee and Deer: Rut Hunting Strategies and Debunking Common Rut Myths With NDA’s Kip Adams on Apple Podcasts and he said basically the same thing. The moon the weather the wind the temp nothing they can see changes the birds eye view of deer movement. The only thing that changes it is the rut. I would love for the Drury study to happen, but I feel sure we wouldn't see the data because of money. The questions I have is if none of these change the deer movement than what does?
For me it is not about "having the truth" as much as it is having the data so I can better formulate my plan for where I hunt. If they do a collaborative study on the Mark and Terry's ground across 3 states, it only becomes the truth for those locations. We still have to be able to apply the data to our locations with the different or additional influences that are found there.
We could do our own study of sorts here in the forum. We would need to determine the observation data points to collect, set up a spreadsheet and as many as want to participate could track individually and at the end of the season, compile the data. Not scientific by any means but imo useful comparative data.
This has already been done by Dr. Sheppard. And, by the sounds of it, the drurys.
What would add the “science” to it, or really, just replace the human eye observed phenomena (hunter seeing deer movement during daylight), with more precise measurement with gps collars on deer, taking the human element out almost entirely.
I wasnt thinking about from the standpoint of finding something yet uncovered, more like expanding the range of what has been done since we have people here in the forum scattered all across the country hunting as wide of a variety of terrain as there is as well as combining high and low pressure public, low and high pressure private.
This is what I’d like to do in that “scent” thread. Get the basic 10-15 inputs, plus “I wear scent lok” type inputs. It’s a really simple data base to build. I just have no interest in giving data or helping read it unless everyone uses the exact same input format (an app likely, but a simple one).
People building their own spreadsheets, posting in forums, telling us about their brother-in-laws one time he killed a deer when it was hot, etc. is not going to help us any.
I’m in, both financially, and effort wise, if it’s going to be an adult plan.
I am ok with using a spreadsheet format if it is the same data collection for everyone(Master posted here for anyone that wants to participate to download). That and well I have no freaking clue about how you come up with an app. Incorporating scent/scent control makes perfect sense as well. I'm in as well.
Currently listening to the podcast but, had to stop to point out that Terry said they each look at 1 to 1.5 million trail cam pics per year??? That is 4,000 pics per day 7 days per week, 52 weeks per year, for each of them. Let that sink in .
Have a buddy that has 4-5 cell cams on his pretty small piece of ground(150ish acres) and he had 315k pics for 2022.