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What Makes A Bow Accurate?

Plebe

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2020
Messages
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Podium Archer (MFJJ) made this video last year, in which he specifies that short reflex and long riser are critical aspects of a bow's inherent accuracy:


My current hunting bow dates back to 2006, so I haven't really put a lot of bows to the test. Maybe some of you shooters who rotate into new bows often could share with folks like me your thoughts on MFJJ's hypothesis and your own insights into inherent bow accuracy.

Thanks!
 
A piggyback with a sort of related question for the same folks: what features or dimensions or measurements of a bow correlate with shooter consistency?

There’s an upper bound to any shooter’s precision. What things about a bow don’t drag you away from that upper bound?

I ask it that way, because accuracy is a measurement of a shooter’s ability to aim correctly. Precision is the measure of their ability to repeat point of impact. The former has nothing to do with the bow.

I wonder if it’s just “what bows are easy to tune(to themselves), and what bows hold that tune most reliably?” I noticed myself early on attempting to tune a bow to me. Once I ignored me, and got the bow to do the same thing every time, accuracy fell in line.

Or do you think that there are tricks we can play on ourselves with certain features of a bow that make us more precise? Got my wheels turning.
 
A piggyback with a sort of related question for the same folks: what features or dimensions or measurements of a bow correlate with shooter consistency?

There’s an upper bound to any shooter’s precision. What things about a bow don’t drag you away from that upper bound?

I ask it that way, because accuracy is a measurement of a shooter’s ability to aim correctly. Precision is the measure of their ability to repeat point of impact. The former has nothing to do with the bow.

I wonder if it’s just “what bows are easy to tune(to themselves), and what bows hold that tune most reliably?” I noticed myself early on attempting to tune a bow to me. Once I ignored me, and got the bow to do the same thing every time, accuracy fell in line.

Or do you think that there are tricks we can play on ourselves with certain features of a bow that make us more precise? Got my wheels turning.

I don't think the semantics are that critical. I'm talking about forgiveness of shooter induced error. Perhaps some bows out perform others in shooting machines, but that is not the focus here.

Precision, of course. But as we all adjust sights to a bullseye, it's kind of hand in hand. Maybe there are some factors that make precise groups impossible to move to center, but I'm unaware of them.
 
Consistency equals accuracy. An out of tune bow can still be extremely accurate (assuming arrow impact is the measure of accuracy).
Limbs must fire at the same time and be extremely repeatable in energy delivered to the arrow.
 
I've always heard that longer ATA length and higher brace height makes for a more forgiving bow. There's obviously no advantage with the sentient string-puller out of the equation because a reverse limb crossbow with a 4" ATA can be pretty dang accurate.

I've spent a lot of slow Mondays shooting $300 bows and $1500 bows back-to-back. The more expensive bows were usually faster, had a more defined backstop, and had less vibration...usually. But there wasn't any consistent difference in accuracy even when shooting paper for me and my coworker, both of whom have won local 3d shoots.

Far bigger gains to be had concerning equipment with arrows, releases, sights, and just tuning it. An expensive bow off-the-rack is generally more shootable than a $300 Bear combo, but 20 minutes negates that in my experience.

Most cases I've seen where people put bows in a hooter shooter result in an article with a lot of waffling about how cheap bows are good, but for some silly reason (nice aluminum risers vibrate less) it may be worth it to you to shell out cash.
 
I don't think the semantics are that critical. I'm talking about forgiveness of shooter induced error. Perhaps some bows out perform others in shooting machines, but that is not the focus here.

Precision, of course. But as we all adjust sights to a bullseye, it's kind of hand in hand. Maybe there are some factors that make precise groups impossible to move to center, but I'm unaware of them.

Do you think there are bow features that enhance a shooter’s consistency?
 
Do you think there are bow features that enhance a shooter’s consistency?
Weight and length are just two things that affect stability. This to me means how much the bow moves during the shot. So attributes of the bow that can help the bow to move less could benefit an archers precision and accuracy in my mind. These bow attributes are no where close to as important as skill but can make a difference to different skill levels at varying ranges.

Now I can’t kill a deer to save my life but I’m pretty good with a bow at the range. I started with an old pse wheel bow and was shooting better than most with it after a fair amount of practice. I shot it out to 50 no problem. So I became accurate with this bow despite it being slow and vibrating a lot. I was shooting equal to guys with new bows (not saying much). I will say the weight of this bow probably helped with stability despite the other downsides. When I got a newer bow without any practice my groupings got smaller immediately. I also found it more forgiving. These bows were very different but the speed, vibration, and most importantly the stability of the bow made a difference in my precision (or hitting the same size groups at various yards consistently).
 
But that example above was a 20 year difference in bows. I think the benefits the bow itself can provide you in terms of accuracy/precision diminish as the technology planes out. So I’m not convinced I would see that much difference in accuracy nor precision with a 2023 bow against my 2017 bow. That is not to say that there wouldn’t be some improvements that could aid in my precision. I just think they would be far less.
 
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I’m new to the compound bow thing, but in trad archery brace height, reflex, and length all play a part in how forgiving a bow is. I wouldn’t say it affects accuracy per se, but a short bow with lots of reflex will tell on you if your form ain’t what it should be. I would assume there are some parallels in the compound world.

Bottom line…if you want more accuracy then practice more. You can do a lot of things “wrong” and still be accurate as long as you do it the same way every shot.
 
Yes, lets find them out.

Now I want to see this experiment.

Tune up 20-30 different model bows with a shooting machine to get the bows/arrows completely dialed. Shoot identical arrow systems. You’d want a pretty diverse set of bows (heavy/long, light/long, fast/slow, etc)

Hand them to 10 different shooters. Shoot them indoors at 50 yards in five shot rounds with back to back shots for ten rounds, and one minute rest between shots for ten rounds. Record both group sizes, and average distance from aim point for each bow(group center distance from aim point for first round, then distance from aim point on every individual shot).

I would imagine this is a big enough data set to draw correlations between certain features and precision.

My guess is they would be weak correlations.

You can repeat same experiment with different accessories(think EZV/pins, heavy/light/long/short stabilizers, etc).

Curious if someone has gathered enough data to make reasonable assumptions based on similar method, even if casual. Just seems hard to trust anyone not specifically setting up an experiment and recording data. I’ve got tens of thousands of shots through a dozen different compounds. I have my theories. I don’t trust a single one, because the data is very corrupt.
 
I've always heard that longer ATA length and higher brace height makes for a more forgiving bow. There's obviously no advantage with the sentient string-puller out of the equation because a reverse limb crossbow with a 4" ATA can be pretty dang accurate.

I've spent a lot of slow Mondays shooting $300 bows and $1500 bows back-to-back. The more expensive bows were usually faster, had a more defined backstop, and had less vibration...usually. But there wasn't any consistent difference in accuracy even when shooting paper for me and my coworker, both of whom have won local 3d shoots.

Far bigger gains to be had concerning equipment with arrows, releases, sights, and just tuning it. An expensive bow off-the-rack is generally more shootable than a $300 Bear combo, but 20 minutes negates that in my experience.

Most cases I've seen where people put bows in a hooter shooter result in an article with a lot of waffling about how cheap bows are good, but for some silly reason (nice aluminum risers vibrate less) it may be worth it to you to shell out cash.

Thanks. I've been told those same things, with no opportunity to test the logic.

Longer ATA:
I think the story goes that a longer ATA bow has a longer moment of inertia and therefore slower rotational movement.

Podium archer emphasizes riser length over ATA, refocusing this on the portion of the bow within one's grip.

Is one or the other correct? I assume the vertical through a horizontal center of mass is a more accurate moment of inertia. That would pobably be closer to the riser than the axel, so maybe MFJJ has the better measure there, if I'm on track.

Longer ATA offers a shallower string angle. I imagine benefits of string angle largely revolve around personal fit (specific to one's form). Although, shallower generally facilitates a closer eye to peep setup and greater distance between peep and pin as well, which maybe offers some advantage. I don't know at very small increments that would be measurable and and am ok with taking it off the table as something of note beyond extreme cases.

Seems like in your experience ATA is a minor consideration when shopping for a bow then?
 
Now I want to see this experiment.

Tune up 20-30 different model bows with a shooting machine to get the bows/arrows completely dialed. Shoot identical arrow systems. You’d want a pretty diverse set of bows (heavy/long, light/long, fast/slow, etc)

Hand them to 10 different shooters. Shoot them indoors at 50 yards in five shot rounds with back to back shots for ten rounds, and one minute rest between shots for ten rounds. Record both group sizes, and average distance from aim point for each bow(group center distance from aim point for first round, then distance from aim point on every individual shot).

I would imagine this is a big enough data set to draw correlations between certain features and precision.

My guess is they would be weak correlations.

You can repeat same experiment with different accessories(think EZV/pins, heavy/light/long/short stabilizers, etc).

Curious if someone has gathered enough data to make reasonable assumptions based on similar method, even if casual. Just seems hard to trust anyone not specifically setting up an experiment and recording data. I’ve got tens of thousands of shots through a dozen different compounds. I have my theories. I don’t trust a single one, because the data is very corrupt.

I agree that would be great. They could even repeat the test so all the bows are shot at similar levels of fatigue too.

The 2022 OutdoorLife Bow Review included limited precision testing of the featured bows, but wasn't focused on weeding out the what and why of it.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/gear/best-compound-bows/

Maybe you are right and there isn't a perceptible measure of "forgiveness" in any features we discuss.

When you buy a bow, what how do you determine which one to buy?
 
For a hunting bow? Yeah...I don't think the gain in potential accuracy offsets the reduced weight and increased maneuverability. Unless, of course, the buyer thinks it does.

What do you think about brace height (or reflex)?

Both my bows sport 7.5" brace heights and new bows are mostly coming in at 6" this year. (I've never checked the reflex)
 
I’m new to the compound bow thing, but in trad archery brace height, reflex, and length all play a part in how forgiving a bow is. I wouldn’t say it affects accuracy per se, but a short bow with lots of reflex will tell on you if your form ain’t what it should be. I would assume there are some parallels in the compound world.

Bottom line…if you want more accuracy then practice more. You can do a lot of things “wrong” and still be accurate as long as you do it the same way every shot.

As it is, I'd like a bow with more speed potential. But I don't want to give up accuracy/precision/forgiveness. I honestly don't know how I shoot so well, never having had professional training and starting off in the before-YouTube era. I've always assumed the bow must have something to do with it. Maybe being wrong all the time is simply the best thing that's happened to me, :)
 
What about grip position in the riser? For example Mathews are below midpoint in the riser ( pretty sure ) and Bowtech has the center pivot bows where the gripe is at midpoint in the riser.

My thinking would be that especially if you run stabs you could over come any differences here but curious on others thoughts
 
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What about gripe position in the riser? For example Mathews are below midpoint in the riser ( pretty sure ) and Bowtech has the center pivot bows where the gripe is at midpoint in the riser.

My thinking would be that especially if you run stabs you could over come any differences here but curious on others thoughts

I wonder about that as well. I thought Prime was the only center grip bow, which made me curious specifically about them. They seem to balance without a bunch of stuff hanging off.
 
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