what the heck kind of irresponsible bs is this?

[gameflogger]

This one struck a nerve for me. By definition, unethical means "against the rules, not in accords with the standards of a profession, and lacking moral principles." So what was irresponsible or unethical in his shot? It was totally legal, he has practiced at that distance and beyond, and at the end of the day had he wounded and lost it, it is still just a freaking deer, not some high $ value item, and the coyotes would eat it just like they would if it died from old age, disease, or being hit by a car. If he or anyone else chooses to shoot beyond what you consider your max, what difference does it make to you, and who gets to determine what is ethical? We don't question the mentality of guys that bought Mantis saddles and thought they were the greatest thing ever or the ethics of the company selling them as such (ok, strike that one!), but have to do the chest thump holier than thou salute because someone shot further than you can or will and got his animal in the proces? Again, its just a deer, and none of you would say a word if someone takes an "unethical" shot in a squirrel or other small game. If its legal, let it fly and it may die!

Preach on brother!!

 

[mattsteg]

This one struck a nerve for me. By definition, unethical means "against the rules, not in accords with the standards of a profession, and lacking moral principles." So what was irresponsible or unethical in his shot? It was totally legal, he has practiced at that distance and beyond, and at the end of the day had he wounded and lost it, it is still just a freaking deer, not some high $ value item, and the coyotes would eat it just like they would if it died from old age, disease, or being hit by a car. If he or anyone else chooses to shoot beyond what you consider your max, what difference does it make to you, and who gets to determine what is ethical? We don't question the mentality of guys that bought Mantis saddles and thought they were the greatest thing ever or the ethics of the company selling them as such (ok, strike that one!), but have to do the chest thump holier than thou salute because someone shot further than you can or will and got his animal in the proces? Again, its just a deer, and none of you would say a word if someone takes an "unethical" shot in a squirrel or other small game. If its legal, let it fly and it may die!

62 yards is far enough, that it doesn't matter if you're grouping on a dime. There's too much time for things to go completely pear-shaped.

And if it really is an urban hunt - your bs is on display not just to your youtube audience, but to the entire neighborhood. Too much opportunity to execute a perfect shot...and have the deer take a couple of steps before tbe arrow arrives.

Then you've got a deer with an arrow sticking out of its ass wandering the streets.

It's irresponsible. It's disrespectful to the resource, but leaving that aside it's even more disrespectful to other hunters and those who value the hunting privilege. Too much risk of a negative outcome that materially affects too many others. It's not just his hunt.

 

[mattsteg]

If it is legal, who cares what neighbors get offended. ... I cannot hunt where I live because you need 10 acres to hunt, some people cannot afford to buy a 500,000 dollar piece of property to hunt on. About 5 years ago in TX you could bow hunt on 3 acres. All of the PETA folks got that changed because they did not want to be traumatized by seeing a wounded animal, now you cannot bow hunt on less than 10 acres, even if it borders 10,000 acres.

Well maybe if y'all's locals had had better shot discipline and recovery practices, you wouldn't have been so vulnerable to that lobby?

"Who cares if neighbors get offended" is EXACTLY the attitude that creates situations like you're in.

 

[rhagenw]

Shame is all I got to say and if you disagree you either wet behind your ears or shouldn’t be hunting

 

[Hunter260]

I’d say far more deer have been wounded and never recovered at 15 yards than 40+. If you want to take an ethical hunting shot, a bow is not your tool. You can never be sure that when you let that arrow go you’re gonna have an animal down in 30 seconds. You don’t have to shoot one at 62 yards, I probably never will, but I won’t call a guy a bad hunter or an unethical sportsman or anything like that for doing it. I’ve seen my arrow stickin out of ones shoulder while he ran off to die a slow slow death and never be recovered. It sucks, but that’s part of the game. Bowhunting isn’t perfectly ethical, just part of it.

 

[gameflogger]

I have wounded deer at 5 yards, But I have killed deer at 35 yards. I personally would not shoot at a deer at that distance, but I have a friend who Shoots pronghorn at 65 and 70 yards with a 20 mph wind, and is very successful. I would not get on a bench and ask a spotter to lift up 400# because I have not bench pressed that much, but if I always worked out with 400 # on the bench I would not be reluctant to give it a go. If there are no legal ramifications to what the guy is doing Then who cares if the tree huggers are offended by a wounded deer? I usually shoot my animals within 20 yards, and I would never shoot at a deer at 60+ yards, but if I were Cameron Haynes and I practiced at 100 yds, 60 yards would be a chip shot......... Just sayin!

 

[TNbowhunter]

This one struck a nerve for me. By definition, unethical means "against the rules, not in accords with the standards of a profession, and lacking moral principles." So what was irresponsible or unethical in his shot? It was totally legal, he has practiced at that distance and beyond, and at the end of the day had he wounded and lost it, it is still just a freaking deer, not some high $ value item, and the coyotes would eat it just like they would if it died from old age, disease, or being hit by a car. If he or anyone else chooses to shoot beyond what you consider your max, what difference does it make to you, and who gets to determine what is ethical? We don't question the mentality of guys that bought Mantis saddles and thought they were the greatest thing ever or the ethics of the company selling them as such (ok, strike that one!), but have to do the chest thump holier than thou salute because someone shot further than you can or will and got his animal in the proces? Again, its just a deer, and none of you would say a word if someone takes an "unethical" shot in a squirrel or other small game. If its legal, let it fly and it may die!

A few observations about your rant post:

1. Your definition of "unethical" includes moral principles, which are subjective. So, what you consider unethical need not be the same as what I consider unethical.
2. I consider the chance of wounding an animal when shooting at 60+ yards to be against my moral principle of reducing risk of wounding an animal I respect.
3. My basis of respect for deer (and mostly everything else) has nothing to do with their $ value; I just don't think we're going to see eye-to-eye there.
4. Everyone gets to determine what he feels is ethical; that's why it's called "ethics," not "rules." No one else needs to follow my ethics, but if they don't, they should expect to lose my respect and/or support.
5. We all get that you don't like Tethrd, but it's comical how you tried to loop them into this discussion. That's one serious bee in your bonnet, dude.
6. You have no idea about what I (or others) would or wouldn't say about unethical shots at squirrels or small game, and your presumption about what I'd say or how I feel in this situation was mistaken.

 

[raisins]

This one struck a nerve for me. By definition, unethical means "against the rules, not in accords with the standards of a profession, and lacking moral principles." So what was irresponsible or unethical in his shot? It was totally legal, he has practiced at that distance and beyond, and at the end of the day had he wounded and lost it, it is still just a freaking deer, not some high $ value item, and the coyotes would eat it just like they would if it died from old age, disease, or being hit by a car. If he or anyone else chooses to shoot beyond what you consider your max, what difference does it make to you, and who gets to determine what is ethical? We don't question the mentality of guys that bought Mantis saddles and thought they were the greatest thing ever or the ethics of the company selling them as such (ok, strike that one!), but have to do the chest thump holier than thou salute because someone shot further than you can or will and got his animal in the proces? Again, its just a deer, and none of you would say a word if someone takes an "unethical" shot in a squirrel or other small game. If its legal, let it fly and it may die!

I think you have a false dichotomy embedded in there. It isn't "full human deserving all our compassion OR inanimate object that no one else has a say in how you might treat". For instance, "it's just a stray dog, so what if he wants to kick it?"

This is the reason that animal cruelty laws exist and also laws that state you can't hunt moose with a 22 LR. We've made a nearly universal, yet somewhat subjective, group decision on some of these things. These laws are just a sign of common ethics around these things, and it isn't to say that following laws guarantees someone is ethical or should be free of judgment. Following sound laws is just the bare minimum.

Some of us like animals and deer and have compassion for them and don't appreciate others potentially causing them to suffer more than necessary. And, no, this isn't a slippery slope to vegan-hood. You can tread a middle and reasonable path.

 

[rhagenw]

I bet people defending this fool has facebook instagram or a YouTube page...and Howard hill is no role model and started the phrase fester stick from his stunts

 

[Bwhana]

62 yards is far enough, that it doesn't matter if you're grouping on a dime. There's too much time for things to go completely pear-shaped.

And if it really is an urban hunt - your bs is on display not just to your youtube audience, but to the entire neighborhood. Too much opportunity to execute a perfect shot...and have the deer take a couple of steps before tbe arrow arrives.

Then you've got a deer with an arrow sticking out of its ass wandering the streets.

It's irresponsible. It's disrespectful to the resource, but leaving that aside it's even more disrespectful to other hunters and those who value the hunting privilege. Too much risk of a negative outcome that materially affects too many others. It's not just his hunt.

I also don't see anyone calling out guys ethics for some of the Bambis they are taking and posting pictures of on the contest threads and other social media, but those same pictures can be equally construed by the non hunting public negatively as the situations you described. We will simply have to agree to disagree on this topic.

 

[gameflogger]

Well maybe if y'all's locals had had better shot discipline and recovery practices, you wouldn't have been so vulnerable to that lobby?

"Who cares if neighbors get offended" is EXACTLY the attitude that creates situations like you're in.

No, ignorance creates these lobbys! The crazy cat lady that lets the squirrels nest in her lawn cushions, the woman who has only seen packaged meat, the vegan who thinks that meat is murder... the list goes on. Well let me tell you meat is murder, and unless you are a vegetarian, then you need to face the facts, for you to eat meat of any kind an animal must die!!!

 

[gameflogger]

I also don't see anyone calling out guys ethics for some of the Bambis they are taking and posting pictures of on the contest threads and other social media, but those same pictures can be equally construed by the non hunting public negatively as the situations you described. We will simply have to agree to disagree on this topic.

Oh by the way my 11 year son shot a nubbin buck this weekend with his Crossbow and I just ate some reverse seared backstrap on a spring green salad for supper and it was amazing, I could not taste the difference between it and a “mature” buck LOL!!

 

[mattsteg]

I also don't see anyone calling out guys ethics for some of the Bambis they are taking and posting pictures of on the contest threads and other social media, but those same pictures can be equally construed by the non hunting public negatively as the situations you described. We will simply have to agree to disagree on this topic.

If you've got an issue with that, this is the wrong thread. Take it up there. I'd also note separately that I've said nothing about ethics. Being irresponsible is a different (but overlapping) thing from being "unethical".

 

[tyson12590]

I guess Fred Bear was unethical then. We probably should no longer talk about him as the father of modern bowhunting and we should close his museums and boycott bear archery. His 100+ yard recurve shots were completely unacceptable. How dare he! He even videoed it and broadcasted it across the world!

 

[raisins]

I bet people defending this fool has facebook instagram or a YouTube page...and Howard hill is no role model and started the phrase fester stick from his stunts

I read something interesting about Howard Hill. He used to tour schools and put on shooting shows for children. One of his usual tricks was shooting apples off kid's heads after they volunteered! How would you feel if your kid came home and said "Hey Dad, I had a great day at school, some dude came and put stuff on my head and shot it off with a weapon"?

 

[raisins]

Oh by the way my 11 year son shot a nubbin buck this weekend with his Crossbow and I just ate some reverse seared backstrap on a spring green salad for supper and it was amazing, I could not taste the difference between it and a “mature” buck LOL!!

I've always thought it better to take the fawn than the mother the fawn is with. If still young, the fawn will suffer a lot more without the mother than the mother would without the fawn. I see zero wrong with legally harvesting a young deer. But the public doesn't understand this and so I wouldn't advertise it.

 

[rhagenw]

Yes Fred Bear was very unethical taking shots at running game...they both lived in times that supported a lot of things that were straight wrong...this is coming from a hillbilly that lives 60 miles from the nearest super store or Walmart...

 

[rhagenw]

I read something interesting about Howard Hill. He used to tour schools and put on shooting shows for children. One of his usual tricks was shooting apples off kid's heads after they volunteered! How would you feel if your kid came home and said "Hey Dad, I had a great day at school, some dude came and put stuff on my head and shot it off with a weapon"?

I would beat Howard Hill to death with his own bow period

 

[raisins]

Yes Fred Bear was very unethical taking shots at running game...they both lived in times that supported a lot of things that were straight wrong...this is coming from a hillbilly that lives 60 miles from the nearest super store or Walmart...

A common leisure activity in medieval times was burning cats alive in bags and listening/watching them in pain. Let's just say that humans are a work in progress.....

 

[gameflogger]

I guess Fred Bear was unethical then. We probably should no longer talk about him as the father of modern bowhunting and we should close his museums and boycott bear archery. His 100+ yard recurve shots were completely unacceptable. How dare he! He even videoed it and broadcasted it across the world!

True dat, how about lobbing arced shots above brush into the vitals of animals which only ran 40 yards???? He had practiced and practiced and practiced those shots, therefore they were ethical. If I had taken those shots they would be unethical ya see!