When do you go to plan b?

[131north]

This would be the first time I've solicited advice on anything here besides technical saddle info. I can tell there are some experienced public land hunters on here, and I need some advice. This is my second season focusing on public land, and tonight I'm wondering if I'm overthinking it.

I scouted just before season, collected a mountain of waypoints and trails and whatnot. I hunted this same property a couple weeks ago and saw a small buck and some does, which really gave me a lot of confidence in this pre-work.

There was a spot I was dying to get to deep in there at a creek crossing. Tonight I got in nice and clean, but to my disappointment, the scrapes I had seen a few weeks prior seem to have dried up, and there was just less sign in general. There was still a few nice trails converging, and some stuff going on that made it feel like a great place to sit, but as I sat there and saw nothing, I was left wondering if I should have hunted my way back there versus just diving in.

I was seeing sign and deer a half a mile closer to the car, but I dove right into this spot because I was curious about what I might see there.

Should I have backtracked and picked up some fresher sign before choosing a tree to hunt tonight? Started where I left off before and just gone a little deeper? Hunted the same spot as last time? Can some of you share some experiences where you had a destination in mind but ended up going to plan b and changing things up on the fly?

Thanks in advance!

 

[philsanchez76]

I had a very similar scenario last week. Scouted a spot and found amazing feed sign, scat etc. Set up and had a cool experience with an 8 point who hung out just of of bow range for 30 min. Like you I had a lot of confidence. I decided to hunt the area again 4 days later. Came in and there was no new sign at all. Like no deer had used the area since I was there. I was tempted to sit it again since it seemed like a good spot but the sign said no so I moved on and scouted some other area and didn’t end up setting up until i bumped several deer with only an hour of shooting light left. Fresh Sign really should dictate where you hang. It should be so fresh that you have a tons of confidence you’re gonna see deer and get a shot. I will tell you that if I have a spot that seemed good go dead like that, I will still leave a trail cam there. Sometimes the spot comes back to life few day or a week later. maybe because someone was hunting in the area and pushed all those deer out for a few days. Maybe field was cut and food source changed very quickly? I dunno. Either way sometimes that spot can be good again. Trail cam helps verify this. Good luck out there on public!

 

[heretic]

I'll leave it to the more seasoned killers here to chime in with their $0.02. I've found that if I'm heading to a destination and I run across some sign/spot that just screams "hunt here" I need to pay attention to that and stop being stubborn.

For example: a couple of weekends ago I was heading in deep to one of my "destination" spots that looked good from scouting the previous year. On my way in I came across an opening with a lot of edge habitat (roughly about an acre in size), it looked good but I pushed on. Further in I had to work my way around a point on a knob which also looked good, yet still I pressed on. I finally got to my destination spot, found a few mature oaks dropping acorns and setup. Didn't see a thing. On my walk out I bumped deer in the two spots that looked good on the way in. Had I trusted my gut I would have been on deer.

Fast forward two weeks: I take my nephew out hunting on a new piece of public that I've never been to before. I have a destination spot picked out from the ariels. On the way there I see a spot that screamed "hunt here", very close to bedding cover, a couple of obvious trails, etc. Again, I'm being stubborn and we press on. We get to the destination spot and the setup is all wrong, no sign, no good trees. So I turn us around and head back to the "hunt here" spot. I had him in the tree no more than 30 minutes when a family group of does get out of their beds no more than 40 yards away. They work out in front of us and give my nephew his first deer with a chip shot: broadside at six yards.

The take away (and something I definitely need to focus more on) is to trust your gut. When you find a spot that screams "hunt here", forget the destination and take the bird in the hand.

 

[Jtaylor]

I hunt as early as I can in our archery season. Sign dries up here quick too with other people walking around in the woods bumping deer off public to less pressured private but just as good adjacent property. Crops come out, water holes dry up, crp gets cut and baled which will also dry up activity/sign.
I use online scouting extensively to cut my time down walking in the woods then go to those areas and find fresh sign. By fresh sign I mean gooey deer crap, rubs still oozing sap with bark curls on the ground or a scrape with fresh hoof marks and maybe wet pee still in the center. I've made the mistake of walking by fresh sign because in my mind it was a weird area, don't walk by it!
Once you find all these areas and are actively seeing deer, make a mental or written note and you'll probably start seeing deer in these same places annually given conditions are similar.

 

[Hall17]

I had a similar experience last yr where Plan A was a spot I’ve seen deer before. Wasn’t in there for a while but planned to go back to that spot with limited scouting time prior. Walked right past great sign because I was tunnel visioned. Ended up coming back to that area once Plan A had no fresh sign. Where I sat I literally walked right past no scouting my way in as I should have because I had set in my mind where I was headed. I’ve learned to keep my mind open and eyes open. I ended killing a doe that night because of it but I would have saved some energy if I would have just saw the signs earlier

 

[131north]

I hunt as early as I can in our archery season. Sign dries up here quick too with other people walking around in the woods bumping deer off public to less pressured private but just as good adjacent property. Crops come out, water holes dry up, crp gets cut and baled which will also dry up activity/sign.
I use online scouting extensively to cut my time down walking in the woods then go to those areas and find fresh sign. By fresh sign I mean gooey deer crap, rubs still oozing sap with bark curls on the ground or a scrape with fresh hoof marks and maybe wet pee still in the center. I've made the mistake of walking by fresh sign because in my mind it was a weird area, don't walk by it!
Once you find all these areas and are actively seeing deer, make a mental or written note and you'll probably start seeing deer in these same places annually given conditions are similar.

I just read another post where someone said something similar. I definitely walked by some areas with sign that looked "weird" and had I not had my sticks and a destination in mind I would have/should have stopped.

 

[Tim0712]

I had a similar experience last yr where Plan A was a spot I’ve seen deer before. Wasn’t in there for a while but planned to go back to that spot with limited scouting time prior. Walked right past great sign because I was tunnel visioned. Ended up coming back to that area once Plan A had no fresh sign. Where I sat I literally walked right past no scouting my way in as I should have because I had set in my mind where I was headed. I’ve learned to keep my mind open and eyes open. I ended killing a doe that night because of it but I would have saved some energy if I would have just saw the signs earlier

One of my exclusive spots is 800+ acres. I always hunt a parcel within the property but never a “spot” for this reason. I always have a general idea of attack but Christ I’ve had that change within 100 yards down the logging road

 

[TreeCreep]

If it helps at all; Seems like many of the “Teams” are having a slow start as well.
This is my season so far; plan to climb freshest sign. However, I am guilty of having a destination mindset ; hike to a “proven“ spot and get in tree, when sign doesn’t speak to me.
Winter and summer scouting buck spots or flow areas really have changed this season. Very little sign.
I’ve only seen about 10 deer . 4 doe in range
I’m having a frustrating start to season largely based on warm weather and some heavier than anticipated pressure.
cams went really quiet and I’m moving plans around a bit now.
Thinking about some lower height set ups and members that will climb down to relocate has been helpful in getting me in better spots.
the main thing I move around over is other hunters, either trucks parked, on cams, or walking in area I would expect deer to come in from.
Cooler weather has arrived this week.…!

 

[kyler1945]

You can follow in the footsteps of millions of average joe hunters who have jobs and kids and what not, and hunt a spot or tree they think should be good, has been good in the past, or they just randomly decide to waste calories climbing. Plenty of time to play on saddle hunter. Or you can learn from the countless hours of bird watching, and not climb a tree unless you know there will be a deer under it, in weapon range, in legal hours. How do you do that? Don’t hunt where deer aren’t. As in, find fresh sign, made by deer during legal hours, repeatedly, up to the minute or hour you find it. Ideally they’re making it when you find it.

until you understand basic mechanisms that underlie deer movement, you’ll just be wasting time climbing trees. In the meantime, hunt where deer are. If you aren’t seeing deer or jumping deer somewhat regularly on your approach to a tree you want to climb, you’re probably not going to see them when you climb the tree. Obviously, when you’ve figured out some patterns, you’ll get less sloppy. But for now, go find deer. It’s really that simple.

 

[131north]

You can follow in the footsteps of millions of average joe hunters who have jobs and kids and what not, and hunt a spot or tree they think should be good, has been good in the past, or they just randomly decide to waste calories climbing. Plenty of time to play on saddle hunter. Or you can learn from the countless hours of bird watching, and not climb a tree unless you know there will be a deer under it, in weapon range, in legal hours. How do you do that? Don’t hunt where deer aren’t. As in, find fresh sign, made by deer during legal hours, repeatedly, up to the minute or hour you find it. Ideally they’re making it when you find it.

until you understand basic mechanisms that underlie deer movement, you’ll just be wasting time climbing trees. In the meantime, hunt where deer are. If you aren’t seeing deer or jumping deer somewhat regularly on your approach to a tree you want to climb, you’re probably not going to see them when you climb the tree. Obviously, when you’ve figured out some patterns, you’ll get less sloppy. But for now, go find deer. It’s really that simple.

So I get all that, I am an experienced hunter. It's the public land angle that's new to me. On a couple hundred acres of private land I'd set up wherever I want, without fear that someone is going to Elmer Fudd their way right through my setup. I've scouted and I think successfully mapped many different areas that I could explore for the freshest sign, but I am worried that if I set up on that first sign I see that other folks with eyeballs have also seen it and are going to b-line there as well. I think the theme I am seeing from the posts thus far is find fresh sign, and if it seems logical a deer will be there during daylight, hunt it. Don't overthink it. And it's better to waste energy looking for a spot than climbing a tree and seeing nothing.

 

[kyler1945]

So I get all that, I am an experienced hunter. It's the public land angle that's new to me. On a couple hundred acres of private land I'd set up wherever I want, without fear that someone is going to Elmer Fudd their way right through my setup. I've scouted and I think successfully mapped many different areas that I could explore for the freshest sign, but I am worried that if I set up on that first sign I see that other folks with eyeballs have also seen it and are going to b-line there as well. I think the theme I am seeing from the posts thus far is find fresh sign, and if it seems logical a deer will be there during daylight, hunt it. Don't overthink it. And it's better to waste energy looking for a spot than climbing a tree and seeing nothing.

Fresh sign, made in daylight, that has been seen by multiple hunting parties, is almost NEVER fresh sign anymore. Deer don’t like people, especially those trying to stick sharp stuff in their chest.

Fresh sign made at night, likely won’t have nearly the change in abundance due to people being around.

how do you tell the difference between the two? You’re right that “logic” will play into it sometimes. But there’s a better way. See the deer making the sign. In the spot. In the daylight.

Specifically this is applicable to public land, but it works everywhere. It’s frustrating to hear people *****foot around the woods trying desperately not to spook the magical deer. Screw em! You’re better off being more aggressive and mobile until you learn what they’re doing. And even after you have, it’s still probably better. Public land with other hunters only makes it more critical to find where the deer are that day. As you say, Elmer could booger you up.

instead, be Elmer.

 

[will4554]

I fully intend to spook or kill deer. Every hunt. I need them close. Preferably under 20. Seeing them at 40 is useless. I agree that if you aren’t bumping deer somewhat regularly you aren’t in the game. I had 4 buck encounters this season and killed on the 4th. The sign most guys hunt is old. There’s a ton of scrapes and rubs that happened in September that will get rut hunted. My first and second buck encounters this season happened like this. I was going in to a spot on a 150 acre piece of public that gets smashed. Opening week. I was still 300 or so yards from the “plan” spot. Kicked a buck somewhere I didn’t expect. I walked right over and figured out the bedding for a morning or evening sit. Didn’t even end up hanging that evening, but I scored a few pounds of mushrooms. 3 days later I went back to put a buddy on that deer. And a different buck came in as I was hanging the set, at 515 pm on public. And I feel that spot is done until late season now. I don’t ever hunt more than an evening and morning in a spot. If I don’t see something in two sits I didn’t read it right.

 

[Aeds151]

I fully intend to spook or kill deer. Every hunt. I need them close. Preferably under 20. Seeing them at 40 is useless. I agree that if you aren’t bumping deer somewhat regularly you aren’t in the game. I had 4 buck encounters this season and killed on the 4th. The sign most guys hunt is old. There’s a ton of scrapes and rubs that happened in September that will get rut hunted. My first and second buck encounters this season happened like this. I was going in to a spot on a 150 acre piece of public that gets smashed. Opening week. I was still 300 or so yards from the “plan” spot. Kicked a buck somewhere I didn’t expect. I walked right over and figured out the bedding for a morning or evening sit. Didn’t even end up hanging that evening, but I scored a few pounds of mushrooms. 3 days later I went back to put a buddy on that deer. And a different buck came in as I was hanging the set, at 515 pm on public. And I feel that spot is done until late season now. I don’t ever hunt more than an evening and morning in a spot. If I don’t see something in two sits I didn’t read it right.

What would be considered hot sign? I found a point that had 12 scrapes and even more rubs (albeit small rubs). I sat from 8-noon and saw nothing. Im wondering if im spinning my wheels on these places.


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[kyler1945]

What would be considered hot sign? I found a point that had 12 scrapes and even more rubs (albeit small rubs). I sat from 8-noon and saw nothing. Im wondering if im spinning my wheels on these places.


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did you see a deer making that sign during shooting hours?

did you see deer traveling to that spot at a time that made you think they’d be there during shooting hours?

If not, follow the deer trails leading to that spot backwards to where you suspect the deer are traveling from to get there. Walk them until you see a deer. Now you’re in the game.

 

[kyler1945]

Average buck has a home range of a few hundred acres. If you find sign, even kind of fresh sign, all it guarantees is that you’re within several hundred yards of a deer. Maybe.

Finding significant volume of sign that is fresh, as in made in the last several minutes or hours, could mean you’re within dozens of yards of deer. Maybe.

Finding deer making significant volume of sign while they’re making it, in daylight hours, guarantees that you’re hunting “hot sign”.

Most sign that hunters think is “fresh” is days or weeks old.

Deer are moving mostly at night. Which means the evidence of their movement is largely left behind at night. Hunters as a whole overvalue “sign” in determining where to hunt in relation to it. It’s not that it isn’t an important piece of the puzzle. It’s that when how and why it was laid down is more important than it’s existence. Think about it. All tells you is that deer were here at some point before me. That does not mean deer will be there again while you’re there.

Knowing when, how and why the sign is there will determine its value. Best way to learn those details is to find deer in the act of leaving sign.

Be aggressive. Be. Be. Aggressive.

 

[Aeds151]

^^^^ Great advice thank you sir!!!!


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[kyler1945]

^^^^ Great advice thank you sir!!!!


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Im just an ok hunter. But I’m a good problem solver.

Problem: I don’t know where deer I want to shoot are during legal shooting hours.

deductive reasoning - I don’t know how to find out the answer. But I do know that sitting in a tree, with deer not under it, is doing an infinitesimal amount to help me solve it…

Ipso facto - looking for where deer are spending their daylight hours, until you find where deer are spending their daylight hours, as in, literally seeing them, will do much more.

 

[ImThere]

Walk til you drop
If the poop ain’t steaming don’t stop
IMHO
Public land deer isn’t different than private land deer. True they may be a little more skiddish depending of how desolate a parcel is but wma boarders don’t stop deer travel. It’s the same deer. (the buck I chased all over the wma was killed on private land that boarders the wma)


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[TreeCreep]

Post #12 - 14 & 15 is my required reading when not seeing deer.
I'm having a inconsistent season and consistently aim to do more of this . My “ short” sits are the inconsistent ones as i talk myself out of being aggressive and default to prior scouting.
Much like my childhood dog that once caught a rabbit in a corner of our yard and would then favor that area for the rest of her days.
Good tough love here

 

[131north]

Post #12 - 14 & 15 is my required reading when not seeing deer.
I'm having a inconsistent season and consistently aim to do more of this . My “ short” sits are the inconsistent ones as i talk myself out of being aggressive and default to prior scouting.
Much like my childhood dog that once caught a rabbit in a corner of our yard and would then favor that area for the rest of her days.
Good tough love here

I agree, good thread discussion – thanks to everyone contributing advice! With any luck, there will soon be some follow-up pics of bucks down.