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Who has removed leg straps? Any regrets?

John RB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
559
Location
Fort Washington, PA
If ya ask : "who cut out your leg straps? " ... ya get answers from the wrong audience and put yourself at risk. If ya ask: "in what situations might leg straps provide a benefit?" ... well, those answers might save your life. I used this very question as an example in my safety video.


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Blacksmith

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SH Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2018
Messages
1,130
Location
Bucyrus OH
I've made several two-panel saddles like the Wraptor w/o leg straps. I don't see how they would help, inverted. I don't think you could tighten them enough to keep your legs from sliding out if inverted. I don;t know about everyone else but my legs both taper from the top down, getting smaller as you go. IMO as soon as you flipped over they would slide right down your legs, getting looser as they go....
 

Marmuzz

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SH Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2021
Messages
784
Location
Lancaster, Pennsylvania
A few times when I had a Mantis saddle during rappel the leg strap G hooks fell out of the tabs, and that saddle worked it’s way into some very uncomfortable and awkward places. I wanted to get to the ground as soon as possible. After those experiences I will not use any saddle without leg straps, and I err towards Raptor buckles because they keep everything in position.
 

raisins

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SH Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
4,275
A few times when I had a Mantis saddle during rappel the leg strap G hooks fell out of the tabs, and that saddle worked it’s way into some very uncomfortable and awkward places. I wanted to get to the ground as soon as possible. After those experiences I will not use any saddle without leg straps, and I err towards Raptor buckles because they keep everything in position.
Cobra buckles are even better than Raptor (imo). Stronger, holds webbing better, and the metal tab pokies that release it aren't as annoying.
 

tailgunner

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Joined
Feb 22, 2021
Messages
2,328
Location
western Oregon blacktailwoods
If ya ask : "who cut out your leg straps? " ... ya get answers from the wrong audience and put yourself at risk. If ya ask: "in what situations might leg straps provide a benefit?" ... well, those answers might save your life. I used this very question as an example in my safety video.


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The question was strait forward.op asked people with exsperiance. And a bunch of people without exsperiance say i would never.if people with exsperiance say they where injured and they no longer do it then you have an argument.just saying it scares me without ijury statistics doesnt prove there is a risk.i love your work dog.but playing devils advocate i would ask if any one has had an ijury because they removed their legstraps and it would be a shorter thread.im not fanatical data could change my position. I used to put a single strap on my saddles as a minimalist just so i wouldnt slip out the bottom if i fall asleep.i simply forgot to add one one time and got used to it and have had no problems.if i hurt myself i will let you know.and the discution will go on.good vids by the way.
 

John RB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
559
Location
Fort Washington, PA
Thx for the support and comments, it's appreciated. I hope it comes through in my tone, both in writing and and speaking in my videos, but I'm not busting anybody stones. I just don't want to see any more accidents. I'm literally losing sleep over the recent fatal accident in the saddle community and wondering how it could have been prevented. I consider you all my brothers and sisters, and even if I don't know you, I want y'all safe.

In my mind, here is the number one situation for having leg straps: you have some slack in your tether/rappel line for whatever reason. Maybe you just stood in the middle of a hunt to take some pressure off your hips and have a few inches. Or maybe you are an aggressive one sticker and you're standing at the top of your stick getting to ready to move your tether up... a very dangerous place to be with potentially multiple feet of slack ( because you didn't understand the importance of keeping it minimal). That moment, our stick or platform falls off the tree completely, like a trap door. That's going to cause a fall and an incredible jolt and a very reasonable chance that our butt will fall right out of the bottom of our saddle. This is the only time we are gonna appreciate those straps... and they are gonna hurt, but they can save us. I'm not recommending that anybody actually tries this test. But picture yourself doing it and doing it a thousand times. We have to be safe every time.

A good argument could be made that a no slack rope climber doesn't need em. But I am that guy and I still won't take them off. Because as much as I have thought about all this stuff, I'm still not confident I have thought of everything. And I don't want to realize that during an emergency.

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tailgunner

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Joined
Feb 22, 2021
Messages
2,328
Location
western Oregon blacktailwoods
Thats what im lookin for right thur my dude.different climbing situations could for shure call for them.just cuzz one person cant find a way to hurt there selve doing what they do.dont mean someone else cant find a way.
 

Hall17

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2021
Messages
1,173
Location
Pennsylvania
Keep ‘em on. I know for me there are times when my saddle slips up a bit and having them on keeps it from riding down even more. Mostly when I am rappelling. I also tighten them up when I’m ready to come down
 

dbow0603

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2020
Messages
60
Sorry i didn't Read all the replies.

1. Don't.
2. The way you worded the question and post wasn't ideal. Anyone who has regrets over cutting out their straps isn't on this forum any more. They are learning how to walk or brush their teeth again depending on how bad the fall was. (Sorry, but I have seen too much... a fall can really take you out.)
3. If you think you can safely cut em out, you might be right... but it deserves a test. The test would be to get into whatever point in your climb you have the most slack and jump off holding nothing in your hands or feet. Simulate a failure of your footing. Do it on max slack. Repeat and fall in any direction in any position. Do 1000 tests. Were you ever injured?

Now, if this test sounds Crazy, don't do it. But i actually have done it thousands of times. I might move a max of a few inches, typically zero inches... and so I probably could cut em out. But i don't. And you might not have zero slack like I do... in that case, i definitely wouldn't.

It doesn't matter if 100 guys never had a problem with it. It matters if YOU could.

Be safe,
jrb

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I'm surprised you didn't get hurt doing all of those falls on purpose. Your gear is not designed to be fall tested over and over. That in itself is way more dangerous than cutting straps off. On fact, I got rid of mine, bc you don't need them. Look at every pole climber and tell me if they have leg straps. Arborist saddles have them only because of the angles they work at. If you are standing on a limb 10 feet away from where you are tied in yes keep your leg straps. If you are up then down, don't need them.

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John RB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
559
Location
Fort Washington, PA
I'm surprised you didn't get hurt doing all of those falls on purpose. Your gear is not designed to be fall tested over and over. That in itself is way more dangerous than cutting straps off. On fact, I got rid of mine, bc you don't need them. Look at every pole climber and tell me if they have leg straps. Arborist saddles have them only because of the angles they work at. If you are standing on a limb 10 feet away from where you are tied in yes keep your leg straps. If you are up then down, don't need them.

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1. I never said that I fall tested my equipment thousands of times. I'm saying that if a fall occurred in any one of a thousand possible positions, we can never fall out of the bottom of our saddle and that leg straps are the only way to reliably prevent it.
2. What a lineman climbing on pole spurs has no relationship to what a saddle Hunter does on his climbing sticks. It's a completely different application. Stick climbers all over the Are Climbing with slack on their tether. And a lot of them are climbing without a tether at all. If a one sticker had 4 ft of slack in there tether when their stick disappeared, those leg straps are going to save some lives. If you or anyone wants take your chances, that's fine but at least you will have the facts. And you can ask yourself if they are not necessary, then why is every manufacturer putting them in...

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John RB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
559
Location
Fort Washington, PA
What?!?!


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Think about it. Every time I climb in my jrb climbing system I am on zero slack. And so I just let go of everything. I can drop my hands and drop my feet at any time during any climb whether in a sent or on the sit or in repel, I can just let go, and I don't move one centimeter. Any climber can achieve this using any method provided that they are always tied in and always on zero slack.

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