My man Gene!
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Who has snorted the Fairy Dust?
- Thread starter jakhammer
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Lowg08
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I’m not going to debate. I don’t have enough experience to debate it. I just know what I like to shoot
Best post of the thread.
I think a happy medium is best. Downside of Ashby/fair dustbroadheads (small 2 blades) is often poor blood trails. I advocate for a bleeder blade for whitetails. Arrow tuning is huge as proper arrow flight is one of the best determiners of penetration. I am using a 500 grain arrow at about 260fps with a iron will broadhead. Decent blood trails and tons of penetration. Other downside of 2 blades are liver and gut shots-the animal suffers longer
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There is a plenty of documented evidence showing a single bevel flying thru guts causes massive damage.....Starburst cuts is what Ashby called them.
You're using one of the smallest two blade heads on the market, after saying that blood trails of small heads are a downside.
bleeders on an iron will add about 1/4" total cutting surface.
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I posted this previously in the Don't Trust Coyotes thread, so I'll add I here too. This has to do with a deer moving as the shot broke and a gut shot.
One experience I had comes to mind. I was set up in a draw with a little creek running due north of my position and had a 3 year old, very thick cutover running perpendicular to my location about 25 yards directly in front of me. About 8:30 AM a doe came through walking along that transition of cutover and woods. She stopped to nibble on a vine and I drew back and anchored. As the shot broke she took a short step and the arrow hit her about 10 inches back of where her heart had been only a split second before. I was shooting a heavy arrow with high FOC and a hair popping sharp Grizzly single bevel broadhead. She apparently didn't hear the bow, being very quiet, and the arrow passed through her without her seeming to notice and she carried on a couple of more steps and paused. I could tell she was feeling the effects of the arrow's passage and she walked over about 10 yards and bedded down behind a big red oak with only her head and neck visible to me from my vantage point. At this point she was no more than ten feet from the cutover. I watched her for the next 40 minutes as she sat behind that tree. She would lift her head unsteadily every five minutes or so and lower it. She finally laid her head down for the last time and moved no more. Had she been spooked by the arrow hitting her or a loud bow shot I feel confident she would have run into that cutover and I would never have seen her again.
What saved the day on this one was 1. A very quiet bow shot helped by a heavy arrow set up, 2. a honed and stropped hair popping sharp broadhead, and 3. I "believe" the single bevel's rotation and star bursting though the intestines. I did not do a necropsy on the intestines to see if I got a starburst, so I'll never know. All this lead to a deer that just bedded down and expired instead of tearing out to parts unknown deep in a cutover, never to be seen again.
One experience I had comes to mind. I was set up in a draw with a little creek running due north of my position and had a 3 year old, very thick cutover running perpendicular to my location about 25 yards directly in front of me. About 8:30 AM a doe came through walking along that transition of cutover and woods. She stopped to nibble on a vine and I drew back and anchored. As the shot broke she took a short step and the arrow hit her about 10 inches back of where her heart had been only a split second before. I was shooting a heavy arrow with high FOC and a hair popping sharp Grizzly single bevel broadhead. She apparently didn't hear the bow, being very quiet, and the arrow passed through her without her seeming to notice and she carried on a couple of more steps and paused. I could tell she was feeling the effects of the arrow's passage and she walked over about 10 yards and bedded down behind a big red oak with only her head and neck visible to me from my vantage point. At this point she was no more than ten feet from the cutover. I watched her for the next 40 minutes as she sat behind that tree. She would lift her head unsteadily every five minutes or so and lower it. She finally laid her head down for the last time and moved no more. Had she been spooked by the arrow hitting her or a loud bow shot I feel confident she would have run into that cutover and I would never have seen her again.
What saved the day on this one was 1. A very quiet bow shot helped by a heavy arrow set up, 2. a honed and stropped hair popping sharp broadhead, and 3. I "believe" the single bevel's rotation and star bursting though the intestines. I did not do a necropsy on the intestines to see if I got a starburst, so I'll never know. All this lead to a deer that just bedded down and expired instead of tearing out to parts unknown deep in a cutover, never to be seen again.
Now that I’ve read through this thread, I find myself confused about which camp to join. Do I join the lightweight, twizzler spine camp of men who probably skip leg day at the gym? Or do I join the heavy howitzer camp of real men who’s spine and broad heads start with the number 2?
Due to the pressure felt by social media telling me what to do I have decided I will just let my tether out as far as possible, cut it, free fall onto the deer while putting it in a rear naked choke. My fall speed will be somewhere around the equivalent of bone breaking speed yet still have the overall top speed of a faster arrow at the same time. I have now defeated the heavy vs light arrow riddle. I will post results this season.
Due to the pressure felt by social media telling me what to do I have decided I will just let my tether out as far as possible, cut it, free fall onto the deer while putting it in a rear naked choke. My fall speed will be somewhere around the equivalent of bone breaking speed yet still have the overall top speed of a faster arrow at the same time. I have now defeated the heavy vs light arrow riddle. I will post results this season.
Lowg08
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Look up Lusk archery. He does ballistic gel with a kudu point and you can see the twist through the gel. Mimic what a wound Channel would be
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I've struggled with the idea of what causes good vs poor blood trails and as far as I can determine to my satisfaction it boils down to 2 main things. The first is the presence of an exit would low on the animal's body. I shoot a good many deer from close range, so I am usually tucking an arrow in just below the backstraps on the on side and my exit is low. This usually results in profuse blood trails. I aim for the exit wound and make sure the vitals are in between the entrance and exit.
The second major factor that I think contributes to good blood trails is broadhead sharpness. In years past I was guilty of buying a pack of broadheads and just hunting with them. Sometimes it worked great, sometimes not. Nowadays, if the broadhead won't shave hair off my arm with no effort I don't hunt with it. Check out the following article. It deals with the physiology of coagulation and hemorrhaging in relation to broadhead sharpness.
Bleeder blades do help, I think in double bevel broadheads. I have used and can recommend the Magnus Stinger Buzzcut broadheads if you are looking for a somewhat lighter broadhead. I have had them bend and lose bleeder blades, but I do consider them good broadheads.
Microsoft Word - Getting an Edge on Success (squarespace.com)
Pictured below is a doe shot with a Grizzly single bevel. She made it 40 yards with profuse bleeding. Razor sharp single bevel and low exit wound.
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I use the single bevel and the bleeder blades add 3/4”
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Is that the guy who shoots at rocks?
Sharp broadheads, and two holes (with one of them being on the bottom of the deer) will definitely help with blood letting.
But blood trails begin and end with hitting high pressure, large diameter piping. If you don't sever major plumbing, you're not getting a great blood trail.
Having said that - you can hit a major vessel, but the openings in the skin can be plugged by the muscle, fat, and other tissue that moved underneath the skin prior to, during, and after the shot. Deer skin moves a lot because they're so flexible.
Essentially, the things that cause and don't cause good blood trails are out of your control, really.
Two schools of thought make sense to me:
Because you can't make good blood trails, aim for center of lungs. Best odds of deer going down within 200 yards.
Because the only thing that makes good blood trails are cleanly severed major vessels, aim for top of heart/slightly forward of where most people do. You might hit a shoulder, but if you make it through, you're 100% cutting the pump station.
Brings to mind buck I shot last year. Quarter away slightly. I hit him right behind front shoulder, and exited in front of off shoulder. High. He ran 30 yards and flipped over. Blood sprayed out of both holes like a garden hose. I missed heart, and one lung completely. But I put a 1.5" razor sharp cut on contact head through almost all of the major plumbing. Blood pressure dropped to zero in about 3 seconds. Not the exact shot I'd prefer. But I do tire of folks who say if you're hitting a shoulder, you're missing. Deer die from lack of oxygen to the brain. If you stop blood flow to the brain they can't get oxygen. Cutting the pipe in half that sends the blood to the brain will stop blood flow.
They add only to the sides of the ferrule, which has already cut stuff. They're following. They don't generate a 3/4" "cut" without the leading blade. So they're only adding what their cutting surface, turned at the angle of install, offers. And when you take each 1/4" sticking out of either side, and put them at a 45* angle, you're getting something like 1/8" from each. maybe 3/16". So let's go with 3/8" instead of 1/4". I stand corrected.
We're on a tangent. I just thought the conflicting ideas were interesting. The single bevel clarification helped I reckon.
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I believe the idea of bleeder blades was brought out by Fred Bear on his Bear Razorhead in the mid 1950"s to cut the on-side hide so the hole would stay open and allow for less shaft drag on the arrow as it went in. The blades were made of a brittle spring steel and were designed to shatter after entering so they would not slow the broadhead down. If I'm mistaken on this, I stand to be corrected.
If u go to tuffhead broadhead utube channel and look for rotational effect of single bevel broadheads there is plenty info....I tried to post a link here but it's an age restricted video.
If you guys want some extra reading material, head over to Archery Talk and see what they are saying about the arrow chart Ashby put out.
Ashby foundation new arrow chart | Page 15 | Archery Talk Forum
Ashby foundation new arrow chart | Page 15 | Archery Talk Forum
Spartan
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Lol. Good to know that my countless number of pass throughs and about 97% recovery rate over the past decade alone only gets a grade of a "D".
This has almost reached a cult-level status. People just gulp that kool-aid and spend that money and keep clicking and clicking and clicking. Exactly what these people want.