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Why not use dynamic rope for one-sticking?

Back to the topic....I had a question: what distance is considered a 'fall' because if I slip 6" or even 18" I wouldn't consider that a fall at all or be concerned about my body. That's why I think in 2TC if you stick to @18" moves you're never really gonna "fall", unlike 1-stick ing where it could be 6 feet or so by the looks of some videos.

That's a good way to frame this.

On a dynamic rope, how far can you fall without enough instantaneous force to damage the body enough to matter?

What about with static rope?

Casting it as "with a 2 fall factor, it doesn't matter" stops the discussion before it gets more useful, I think.
 
Back to the topic....I had a question: what distance is considered a 'fall' because if I slip 6" or even 18" I wouldn't consider that a fall at all or be concerned about my body. That's why I think in 2TC if you stick to @18" moves you're never really gonna "fall", unlike 1-stick ing where it could be 6 feet or so by the looks of some videos.
Any drop is a dynamic event by definition. I wouldn’t want to fall 18”. I sort of agree with you though. For me anything less than 12 “ of total drop distance but only if it were less than 1:1 fall factor as that matters as well.
 
There are a lot of replies here and i didn't have time to read them all. But here's what i have learned based on all my 14 years on the ropes: if you're climbing in a system which has SLACK (more than a few inches anyway) and has the potential for a FALL, you should be on dynamic rope. That's the easy part. The more difficult part is this: the rest of your system should also be capable of arresting a fall. Friction hitches and mechanical devices are not supposed to be in fall arrest systems. That's why rock climbers tie a figure 8 directly to their harness. That's gonna need to be a separate conversation but suffice it to say that if you fall on 4 feet of slack onto a Ropeman, you have a better chance of surviving if the rope is dynamic than static.

Why are we are we generally using static ropes? 1. Because saddle borrowed most of their gear and recommendations from arborist applications ... but arbs are generally on zero slack. 2. Because dynamic ropes stretch and are more difficult to work with and to anchor properly. 3. Because most of us are doing it dangerously: we are allowing slack in our systems. It's gotta be removed as we climb.

By the way, when I tested the JRB HITCH, i did it on BOTH static and dynamic ropes. I didn't do most of these tests because I knew to do em ... they were prescribed.


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There are a lot of replies here and i didn't have time to read them all. But here's what i have learned based on all my 14 years on the ropes: if you're climbing in a system which has SLACK (more than a few inches anyway) and has the potential for a FALL, you should be on dynamic rope. That's the easy part. The more difficult part is this: the rest of your system should also be capable of arresting a fall. Friction hitches and mechanical devices are not supposed to be in fall arrest systems. That's why rock climbers tie a figure 8 directly to their harness. That's gonna need to be a separate conversation but suffice it to say that if you fall on 4 feet of slack onto a Ropeman, you have a better chance of surviving if the rope is dynamic than static.

Why are we are we generally using static ropes? 1. Because saddle borrowed most of their gear and recommendations from arborist applications ... but arbs are generally on zero slack. 2. Because dynamic ropes stretch and are more difficult to work with and to anchor properly. 3. Because most of us are doing it dangerously: we are allowing slack in our systems. It's gotta be removed as we climb.

By the way, when I tested the JRB HITCH, i did it on BOTH static and dynamic ropes. I didn't do most of these tests because I knew to do em ... they were prescribed.


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How much help is it to have a stopper knot right under your friction hitch as you climb? I have some dynamic hitch cord in a distel hitch with both ends scaffold knotted back to the carabiner....my hope is that if it slipped then my stopper knot would catch.

FYI....not 1 sticking, I climb strap on steps with a lineman's and tether both in play with tether as ultimate backup.
 
I would never put it directly under my friction hitch, I’d leave about 4” or so. When a friction hitch slips a little while it tightens, it’s also absorbing force and causing deceleration. While you don’t want enough slip to burn through the hitch or rope, a couple inches won’t hurt and May in fact reduce shock forces.
 
Back to the topic....I had a question: what distance is considered a 'fall' because if I slip 6" or even 18" I wouldn't consider that a fall at all or be concerned about my body. That's why I think in 2TC if you stick to @18" moves you're never really gonna "fall", unlike 1-stick ing where it could be 6 feet or so by the looks of some videos.


Lots of informed discussion and lots of links. My takeaway: a 12" fall will generate enough force to ruin my hunt, probably for the year. It (probably) won't kill me unless everything goes wrong, but can mess up my spine, hips, and innards more than I care to risk. Your takeaway might be different.
 
The more difficult part is this: the rest of your system should also be capable of arresting a fall. Friction hitches and mechanical devices are not supposed to be in fall arrest systems. That's why rock climbers tie a figure 8 directly to their harness. That's gonna need to be a separate conversation

I asked this question in several forms over the last year or two. NO ONE is asking this question. As I understand it, arborists and lineman will use devices attached to their main line, and not be tied directly to it. They use static rope, and don't introduce much in the way of slack, or have a backup connection when they do. We have members who can expand on this.

Any discipline where there is slack introduced during the climb, think rock climbing, they're tying in directly, and use dynamic rope.

I am all for focusing on details and taking these conversations seriously. Saying "if you fall 1-3 feet on your saddle will make you stop caring which flavor rope you chose very quickly" is not being general or ignoring details that might matter.

Yes, rope that will absorb fall force is "better" in a vacuum. The lack of saddle/tree/one stick climbing testing is not because it's an unknown frontier though - it's because we know that introducing slack and generating these types of fall factors are quite dangerous to your health.

The recommendation to have a buddy pull the trap door and test it out yourself isn't a joke. If someone designed the perfect test and proved that you have a high probability of injury falling 12" on a 4' tether even with dynamic rope, you'd still be able to pick apart the test introducing a million variables. "I ain't never seen no plants growing out of no toilet!"

This is a very simple test for the folks who don't believe that the general consensus is serious/detailed enough: Have a friend pull a pin on a platform(replace your bolt) for you. Wear padding if you like. Have a landing pad. Do all you can to protect yourself. Fall a couple inches first. Use dynamic rope. Work your way up on fall distance and factor. Let us know how it goes. My guess is you're going to stop falling on purpose at a much shorter slack distance than what you normally introduce while one stick climbing.

The response is "yeh but it's better to have extra protection, why not use dynamic rope." Besides rope longevity/integrity, sure, the upside is there. If the question you're asking is "what are all the things I can do to minimize risk", dynamic rope probably is in the list of options. But if you're asking "can I introduce a bunch of slack while one stick climbing and not get hurt bad when I fall because I bought a bright blue rope instead of a tan one" - you're probably not going to like the results. Anyone saying "don't fall" or "the difference won't be noticeable and not worth it" - they're answering folks asking the second question, whether they know that's what they're really asking or not.
 
I asked this question in several forms over the last year or two. NO ONE is asking this question. As I understand it, arborists and lineman will use devices attached to their main line, and not be tied directly to it. They use static rope, and don't introduce much in the way of slack, or have a backup connection when they do. We have members who can expand on this.

Any discipline where there is slack introduced during the climb, think rock climbing, they're tying in directly, and use dynamic rope.

I am all for focusing on details and taking these conversations seriously. Saying "if you fall 1-3 feet on your saddle will make you stop caring which flavor rope you chose very quickly" is not being general or ignoring details that might matter.

Yes, rope that will absorb fall force is "better" in a vacuum. The lack of saddle/tree/one stick climbing testing is not because it's an unknown frontier though - it's because we know that introducing slack and generating these types of fall factors are quite dangerous to your health.

The recommendation to have a buddy pull the trap door and test it out yourself isn't a joke. If someone designed the perfect test and proved that you have a high probability of injury falling 12" on a 4' tether even with dynamic rope, you'd still be able to pick apart the test introducing a million variables. "I ain't never seen no plants growing out of no toilet!"

This is a very simple test for the folks who don't believe that the general consensus is serious/detailed enough: Have a friend pull a pin on a platform(replace your bolt) for you. Wear padding if you like. Have a landing pad. Do all you can to protect yourself. Fall a couple inches first. Use dynamic rope. Work your way up on fall distance and factor. Let us know how it goes. My guess is you're going to stop falling on purpose at a much shorter slack distance than what you normally introduce while one stick climbing.

The response is "yeh but it's better to have extra protection, why not use dynamic rope." Besides rope longevity/integrity, sure, the upside is there. If the question you're asking is "what are all the things I can do to minimize risk", dynamic rope probably is in the list of options. But if you're asking "can I introduce a bunch of slack while one stick climbing and not get hurt bad when I fall because I bought a bright blue rope instead of a tan one" - you're probably not going to like the results. Anyone saying "don't fall" or "the difference won't be noticeable and not worth it" - they're answering folks asking the second question, whether they know that's what they're really asking or not.
Kyler says nothing i disagree with, and states it well.

When i am in a conversation with a climber who thinks slack is no big deal, i ask them to picture themselves on a climb, and stop at the point where slack is MAXIMUM.... and to jump off whatever they are standing on... then repeat it 100 times... and tell me if they ever got hurt. That's where the conversation ends. Your 6th sense (common sense) is gonna kick in right before you jump and it's going to say "this isn't smart... this is gonna hurt".

Me? I can let go, hands and feet, at anytime during any climb using any method and i dont move an inch. Why? Because I'm always on zero Slack.

And unfortunately, by my estimation, the time when a stick is the most likely to kick out is when we step onto the very top of it.... and that's likely when slack is MAXIMUM... for a one sticker anyway.

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They also provide the dynamic rope specifics, there aren’t many that gives both static and dynamic. It has a lower impact force than the other two.
6F54A500-D539-4B79-A7EE-12F274D346F2.jpeg
I found out from Arbsession that the Swift Protect has a break strength of around 4800 lbs.
 
Three dynamic ropes for the color conscious, left to right:
8.9mm Edelrid Swift Protect Pro
9.5mm Sterling CanyonTech
9.8mm Sterling Velocity
View attachment 66652

I've been looking at that 8.9mm Edelrid Swift to do some testing. Can only get it in 60 and 70m lengths, unfortunately. Which is fine. But is it a true 8.9mm/9mm? Don't want to shell out $320 and have it be over 10mm. Your pic makes it look thicker than advertised compared to the others.
 
I've been looking at that 8.9mm Edelrid Swift to do some testing. Can only get it in 60 and 70m lengths, unfortunately. Which is fine. But is it a true 8.9mm/9mm? Don't want to shell out $320 and have it be over 10mm. Your pic makes it look thicker than advertised compared to the others.

Not sure what testing you are planning but, if your looking for short lengths you can get it in 8' or 10' lengths: https://arbsession.com/edelrid-swift-protect-pro-dry-8-9mm-tether.html
 
I've been looking at that 8.9mm Edelrid Swift to do some testing. Can only get it in 60 and 70m lengths, unfortunately. Which is fine. But is it a true 8.9mm/9mm? Don't want to shell out $320 and have it be over 10mm. Your pic makes it look thicker than advertised compared to the others.

arbsession has it by the foot and will even sewn an eye in the end for extra

i have that but haven't hung from it yet
 
arbsession has it by the foot and will even sewn an eye in the end for extra

i have that but haven't hung from it yet

Thank you! I kept looking for it by the foot on their site but it wouldn't come up...only the pre-cut tethers. Finally searched for it on their site after seeing your comment and by the foot came up. Kind of odd.
 
Thank you! I kept looking for it by the foot on their site but it wouldn't come up...only the pre-cut tethers. Finally searched for it on their site after seeing your comment and by the foot came up. Kind of odd.

i bought 30 feet with an eye on one end

i'll cut that end to make an 8 foot tether and use the rest for making some dynamic bridges or a spare tether using a knot and not the eye
 
i bought 30 feet with an eye on one end

i'll cut that end to make an 8 foot tether and use the rest for making some dynamic bridges or a spare tether using a knot and not the eye

Have you received it yet? Is it actually 8.9/9mm??
 
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