• The SH Membership has gone live. Only SH Members have access to post in the classifieds. All members can view the classifieds. Starting in 2020 only SH Members will be admitted to the annual hunting contest. Current members will need to follow these steps to upgrade: 1. Click on your username 2. Click on Account upgrades 3. Choose SH Member and purchase.
  • We've been working hard the past few weeks to come up with some big changes to our vendor policies to meet the changing needs of our community. Please see the new vendor rules here: Vendor Access Area Rules

Why not use dynamic rope for one-sticking?

Appreciate you taking the time to post those measurement pics. Looks closer to 10mm to my eye. I may try the Edelrid Starling 8.2mm instead. I was on the fence between the two for that exact reason.

i just put a set of calipers on that edelrid 8.9 mm and it was 9.2 mm

this is a rope that has never been used and was under zero tension and i barely snugged down the calipers

it isn't far off of 8.9 mm

it's tough to judge pictures on a ruler because of parallax/angle error of viewing

i also measured some well used oplux and it was 7.9 mm, under the 8 mm, and maybe due to being used as a tether around 50 times
 
i just put a set of calipers on that edelrid 8.9 mm and it was 9.2 mm

this is a rope that has never been used and was under zero tension and i barely snugged down the calipers

it isn't far off of 8.9 mm

it's tough to judge pictures on a ruler because of parallax/angle error of viewing

i also measured some well used oplux and it was 7.9 mm, under the 8 mm, and maybe due to being used as a tether around 50 times

Thanks. Figure I might as well buy both the Swift and the Starling then. Which I just did. Had to get the Starling in 60m, so if anybody wants some, let me know!
 
Thanks. Figure I might as well buy both the Swift and the Starling then. Which I just did. Had to get the Starling in 60m, so if anybody wants some, let me know!

the starling, i believe, is a half/twin rope....meaning it is used in a 2 rope configuration and its specs reflect that, the edelrid 8.9 swift is a single rope (what we are used to talking about)

the 8.2 starling will probably be plenty strong though, just wanted to make sure you were aware
 
The Starling has a little more stretch to it then the Swift.

Starling on top, next Swift and the slightly smaller C-IV.
98A07857-D134-45B6-997C-810596EBC345.jpeg
 
The difference between a 4 foot fall and and 6 foot fall is not arbitrary. Both are insane
This is intriguing to me because our lanyards allow us to fall 6 foot in the event of a fall. Just a thought for you. If you fall. Your first instinct will be grab the tree. Therefore slowing the fall. Very few people push away to fall backwards. It’s not human nature.
 
Buckingham lanyards.
The energy absorbing lanyards are the ones you’re referring too. However when hooking up to and using those, your connection point on the end of the lanyard is supposed to be above you and used in conjunction with a 5 pt harness. So your 6’ fall would be at a lower fall factor and it’s dynamic with an actual harness designed to arrest a fall. That’s not an apples to apples comparison with a short dynamic rope while one sticking in a saddle or RCH. They are very different animals. Yes a dynamic rope would be the best way to lower the force in a fall but the safer answer is to eliminate the slack to begin with
 
I hate to nitpick you here brother, but that number IS the acceleration component. After one second you are falling 9.8m/s, after two you're falling 19.6m/s. This continues to increase until you hit terminal velocity.
I was about to respond to that original post as well... and your not nitpicking... that's fundamental to the conversation... the fact that dynamic rope is useful for climbing makes it applicable for saddle hunting as well... yes... the stretch you can measure by yanking on it in the garage makes it seem like the stretch is insignificant but the impact equation is work/time =mass*accel*distance/time... Changing that denominator by even by a small percentage makes a difference.... you may not even FEEL a difference but your internal structures will be able to tell
 
No you are not tethered above your head. It is tethered at hip height not above you. You are still fall 6’ until the energy absorption starts and corrects your body to an up right position. This can either jerk you backwards or spin you around or flip you. If the safety mechanism even operates. I been dealing with fall protection meeting osha requirements for 20+ years. May not be comparable but the numbers are just what people put down for insurance purposes. That is in a controlled environment with optimal testing parameters
The energy absorbing lanyards are the ones you’re referring too. However when hooking up to and using those, your connection point on the end of the lanyard is supposed to be above you and used in conjunction with a 5 pt harness. So your 6’ fall would be at a lower fall factor and it’s dynamic with an actual harness designed to arrest a fall. That’s not an apples to apples comparison with a short dynamic rope while one sticking in a saddle or RCH. They are very different animals. Yes a dynamic rope would be the best way to lower the force in a fall but the safer answer is to eliminate the slack to begin with
 
No you are not tethers above your head. It is tethered at hip height not above you. You are still fall 6’ until the energy absorption starts and corrects you body to an up right position. This can either jerk you backwards or spin you around or flip you. If the safety mechanism even operates. I been dealing with fall protection meeting osha requirements for 20+ years.
Waist height or above. You are not allowed to have a free fall of greater than 6’ and the energy absorbing portion adds up to another 4’ but again the entire lanyard is designed to handle a fall. And to reduce force. It uses steel d rings rated above 22.2 KN not knots and hitches which can slip and reduce the ropes breaking strength. the harness must be able to keep you upright in the fall otherwise it isn’t certified. Yes you can twist but you shouldn’t be able to end up upside down. If you are then you’re tie off point is wrong for the application.
Also worth mentioning falls are the number 1 cause of death in elevated work industries. So just because you’re allowed to free fall 6’ still doesn’t make it safe, just “less dangerous” than hitting the ground.
I don’t disagree with you about the FBH fall arrest allowing the 6’ fall, but I also don’t see that applying to our harness application.
 
In a forward facing connection point style safety harness for ANSI the maximum free fall is 2’ and the maximum arrest force allowable is 4kN. That’s a more comparable standard to one sticking with dynamic line while in a saddle or RCH. And again your connection point would have to be at waist level or higher. For reference from the bottom of my sternum to the top of my head is 2’.
 
Waist height or above. You are not allowed to have a free fall of greater than 6’ and the energy absorbing portion adds up to another 4’ but again the entire lanyard is designed to handle a fall. And to reduce force. It uses steel d rings rated above 22.2 KN not knots and hitches which can slip and reduce the ropes breaking strength. the harness must be able to keep you upright in the fall otherwise it isn’t certified. Yes you can twist but you shouldn’t be able to end up upside down. If you are then you’re tie off point is wrong for the application.
Also worth mentioning falls are the number 1 cause of death in elevated work industries. So just because you’re allowed to free fall 6’ still doesn’t make it safe, just “less dangerous” than hitting the ground.
I don’t disagree with you about the FBH fall arrest allowing the 6’ fall, but I also don’t see that applying to our harness application.
I follow what your saying. We don’t have metal loops electricity and metal on the body does not get along. Our safety’s for climbing or 11mm static rope. OSHA says it should restrict a fall to an inch or less. I just feel that either way with lanyards or a static rope versus dynamic a fall for that short of distance will not be fatal or life changing minus pinching your boys off. If your wearing your gear correctly. Our motto is plan not to fail but if you do fail. Plan to fail safely.
 
Food for thought. If it was as safe or safer to wear a RCH style safety device and use some kinda break away or dynamic attachment to climb the industries would be using them. Construction, arborist, or tree stand manufacturers.
 
Food for thought. If it was as safe or safer to wear a RCH style safety device and use some kinda break away or dynamic attachment to climb the industries would be using them. Construction, arborist, or tree stand manufacturers.
This ^^^^^^ yes!!!!
 
I was about to respond to that original post as well... and your not nitpicking... that's fundamental to the conversation... the fact that dynamic rope is useful for climbing makes it applicable for saddle hunting as well... yes... the stretch you can measure by yanking on it in the garage makes it seem like the stretch is insignificant but the impact equation is work/time =mass*accel*distance/time... Changing that denominator by even by a small percentage makes a difference.... you may not even FEEL a difference but your internal structures will be able to tell

Spleen: Thank you, Brain

Brain: You're welcome, Lil' Buddy

:)

I hope it goes down like that.
 
I've been doing some testing with dynamic rope where I'm basically just letting my feet come out from under me, while standing on the floor, with about 6" of slack in the 8 or so total feet of line. So, not a true fall, but a related representation. It has been quite surprising how much bounce the dynamic rope offers. No real way to measure it, but I would guess a solid 2-3 inches of give at least. I doubt that I will ever one-stick climb again on a static rope. I know that there are people who ardently say it makes no difference, but the testing that I'm doing is really starting to inform how things actually perform in my applications. Can't imagine turning down those extra few inches of give in case of a fall.
 
Back
Top