Rope retrieval after rappel- prussic problem

[Razorbak66]

Yes Madrock and I understand that but for my safety I use it on the lower end if I ever let go of the MR for any reason the beaner and prussic loop that I attatch will stop me from going any further. When we use any of these items out of specs we assume all risk even though I use oplux as my rappel rope and it’s not in spec I like it still. I will re visit the canyon rope again in the off season

 

[bj139]

Yes Madrock and I understand that but for my safety I use it on the lower end if I ever let go of the MR for any reason the beaner and prussic loop that I attatch will stop me from going any further. When we use any of these items out of specs we assume all risk even though I use oplux as my rappel rope and it’s not in spec I like it still. I will re visit the canyon rope again in the off season

I just thought I would mention the advisory. You are very safe with the autoblock, IMHO, since you are not shock loading the Madrock.

 

[DB4x4]

But the prussik will hold too well in the 3 wrap configuration. So you’ll try a 2 wrap. And that will be better but nothing great.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nobody should ever use a prusik in a 2 wrap configuration. It will not hold reliably. Minimum 3 wraps for proper friction.

Not trying to be a wet blanket, just don't want someone getting hurt.

I actually use 4 wraps in all of my prusiks. It does lock down tight when in hanging/hunting mode, but this is what I want. When I transition the prusik to autoblock/rappel mode, I loosen it up a little first. When used in tandem with a figure 8 or ATC, the prusik will only see a fraction of your weight and will not lock down as tight.

 

[DB4x4]

Let me add that if you use your prusik for both suspension and rapelling, you should inspect it frequently for wear, especially the insides of the wraps.

Eventually, the friction from rapelling will wear thru the prusik sheath. At this point it should be replaced, because it may no longer reliability hold you in hanging/hunting mode.

The same should be said for the main rapelling line. Frequent inspections.

 

[trailblazer75]

Nobody should ever use a prusik in a 2 wrap configuration. It will not hold reliably. Minimum 3 wraps for proper friction.

Not trying to be a wet blanket, just don't want someone getting hurt.

I actually use 4 wraps in all of my prusiks. It does lock down tight when in hanging/hunting mode, but this is what I want. When I transition the prusik to autoblock/rappel mode, I loosen it up a little first. When used in tandem with a figure 8 or ATC, the prusik will only see a fraction of your weight and will not lock down as tight.

I don’t disagree with you by any means. I wasn’t trying to see what he should do there, I was just talking through the process that I went through personally.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wirrex]

I shy away from metal and mechanical pieces in my setup. I simply turn mine into an autoblock and slide it back up when I retrieve my rope like a few others mentioned. It’s a little tedious but worth it in my eyes.

 

[Jokerswild]

So , my thinking on this.... maybe Im wrong?

By using the prussic I hunt from as my autoblock... there is a brief moment of slack before the rappel device is clicked in? Not ideal to have your 1st device that low in Autoblcok position, even though your platform is supporting you? It also seems kinda "busy" to click out of the bridge, click into the rappel... etc

My plan, though I havent practiced it yet
1. My atc, rappel biner and autoblock cord are all connected. stashed in a pouch on me left hip.

2. I can pull the whole thing out, without undoing the pouch buckle. ...but the cord is still attached to the buckle. ZERO chance of dropping anything

3 once the rappel biner is clicked intothe bridge....I free the cord from the pouch....and can slide it to the right to linemans belt biner that never leaves the loop. Click the cord into THAT biner and free it from the rappel biner. Again ZERO chance any piece is lost

4. Create my autoblock and tested with up and down pressure. If its working right I can slide the rope UP for easy ATC attachment. The Auotoblock with hold that slach for me until Im attached and then pull out the slack as I transition tension from prussic..to ATC AutoBlock.

5. Remove the prussic, making sure I left a pull down rope on my rappel line.


Basically the whole process is done under full tension at all times.. It should be as easy as:
TUG/SNAP TO BRIDGE free the cord....
SLIDE/SNAP capture the cord....
AUTOBLOCK/ROPE LIFT
ATC ATTACH transfer weight

No chance of dropping anything. Always connected. Attachment at the proper height. Just gotta remember to take off the prussic.

Thoughts?

 

[woodsdog2]

Yes just use the MR Safeguard with the appropriate sized rope and you eliminate the need for the prusic. I did have a backup autoblock on a biner attached but I'm not using it anymore now that I trust the MR Safeguard. Is that bad???

 

[bj139]

Yes just use the MR Safeguard with the appropriate sized rope and you eliminate the need for the prusic. I did have a backup autoblock on a biner attached but I'm not using it anymore now that I trust the MR Safeguard. Is that bad???

If I was doing this without a backup to go hands free to remove a platform or stick, I might get a little nervous. I do this all the time since I have a sling attached from my toothed ascender on the rope above the Safeguard. If the Safeguard fails the ascender and sling should catch me. The Safeguard should be OK but if it is the only thing holding me, a failure would be bad.

 

[Jokerswild]

Trying to avoid the whole mechnical device.
A. Mechanical things fail..moving parts are recipe for disaster
B These are all really belay devices, being used out of their intended purpose right?

An ATC, backed up with an autoblock seems like a much more appropriate use tools if you were ask people that use this stuff for its intended purpose.

 

[bj139]

Trying to avoid the whole mechnical device.
A. Mechanical things fail..moving parts are recipe for disaster
B These are all really belay devices, being used out of their intended purpose right?

An ATC, backed up with an autoblock seems like a much more appropriate use tools if you were ask people that use this stuff for its intended purpose.

If I was only descending on a rope and not ascending, I would do what you suggest, an ATC with an autoblock knot, mostly for the low cost. I am climbing SRT so the belay device is necessary. I tried an ATC in guide mode instead of the mechanical belay device and got stuck on a rope about 4 feet above the ground. I thought the problem through and figured out a way to get down. The ATC is like a moped, cheap and will get you there. A mechanical belay device is like a car and will get you there in comfort. Someone will spend $40,000 on a pickup truck but won't spend $80 on an easier climbing device. I don't know why. I would save my money if I had to.

 

[mattsteg]

If I was doing this without a backup to go hands free to remove a platform or stick, I might get a little nervous. I do this all the time since I have a sling attached from my toothed ascender on the rope above the Safeguard. If the Safeguard fails the ascender and sling should catch me. The Safeguard should be OK but if it is the only thing holding me, a failure would be bad.

You really don't want to fall onto a toothed ascender...

Trying to avoid the whole mechnical device.
A. Mechanical things fail..moving parts are recipe for disaster
B These are all really belay devices, being used out of their intended purpose right?

An ATC, backed up with an autoblock seems like a much more appropriate use tools if you were ask people that use this stuff for its intended purpose.

Per the Safeguard manual the safeguard is a EN15151-1 type 6 "device for belaying and rapelling without a panic locking function"

(The UIAA standard pdf file name is kind of terrifying: https://www.theuiaa.org/documents/safety-standards/129_Breaking Device_UIAA_2018.pdf )

Per the referenced standard a "type 6 device" is designed for belaying and abseiling (aka rappelling). In other words, the safeguard is a certified device designed for rappelling.

 

[bj139]

You really don't want to fall onto a toothed ascender...

I would rather do that than hit the ground. I will choose rope damage over body damage every time.

 

[Jokerswild]

rapelling without a panic locking function .....THATS BAD RIGHT?????

 

[bj139]

rapelling without a panic locking function .....THATS BAD RIGHT?????

Train yourself to go hands off if anything slips and you don't need a panic function. If you can't do that then the panic function might be good to have.

 

[mattsteg]

rapelling without a panic locking function .....THATS BAD RIGHT?????

None of the manual devices have a panic locking function. There are few that have one...

Panic locking devices lock up if you pull the lever too far/hard.

 

[Jokerswild]

grigri has one but it doesnt get a lot of love from the saddle crowd?

 

[bj139]

grigri has one but it doesnt get a lot of love from the saddle crowd?

I would use the GriGri plus but the cost is now about $150. The Safeguard is smaller. They all will work OK and I have and used the Safeguard, Lifeguard, GriGri, Birdie and Cinch. The Birdie is cheapest and made of all stainless steel.

 

[mattsteg]

grigri has one but it doesnt get a lot of love from the saddle crowd?

The GriGri+ has it. Bigger, heavier, more expensive (we all bark about this, but then spend hundreds on like 10 other things), and reviews are mixed about the utility of panic-locking (i.e. some think it gets in the way, makes for reduced smoothness).

The Safeguard also is specifically springless for "rescue and rigging" which better matches what we do (although apparently the grigri+ toprope mode is close).

 

[Jokerswild]

So....after all that.....Hunt from a prussic, rappel - ATC with an Autoblock seems like the safest, lightest, quietest, most afforable(non issue with life on the line I guess) Just gotta take the prussic of before descent?