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A&A feathers

Allegheny Tom

Allegheny Tom

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2018
Messages
6,053
Location
Western Pennsylvania
It's no secret that I am an Ashby cool-aid drinker. I believe in the man.

I built Ashby style
arrows... 664 taw, 28% foc, single bevel heads.
But I could not source the A&A style feathers in the length that I thought that I needed (which was 4"...so I thought).

I did find some 2.5" A&A, but geeze, I always thought trad bows needed 5", full helical, offset fletching. I always shot those in 3 fletch.

But after talking to Rob at the Ashby Bowhunting Institute, he convince me to try 2.5" four fletch and I added a turbulator which seemed to help.
I was skeptical about 2.5" straight fletch but I decided to try it on a Grizzlystik Momentum shaft. They fly great and they fly quiet, even with broadheads.
And here's a shout out to @JSEXTON23 for his help and advice on what I will need to cut my own A&A.
Seems like it should be easy to cut my own.
Good dude, right there!
 
SnakeEater said:
Out of curiosity, what did you use for the turbulator?
Click to expand...
I had some wraps that I just cut about a ~1/8" strip and did 1 wrap around the shaft 1/4" in front of the fletch...as per Ed Ashby. He uses 1/32" pin-striping used in model building. He said the RF uses 1/8" strips of arrow wrap so that's what I went with...I thought it would be easier to cut and work with better than 1/32".
 
HuumanCreed said:
Glad someone asked first! Same question.
Click to expand...
I googled it and it took me to an tradgang and archery talk formula rabbit hole. High level from what I read people talking about was it is an oring or other raised surface placed a short fraction of an inch infront of your feathers or vanes leading edge to induce turbulence sooner. I never could get down to the science behind it or what they thought they would accomplish by using it and I studied aerospace engineering haha.
 
It's an Ashby arrow component. I know theres some videos out there somewhere in which he discusses it, but basically it's a little strip of tape, or pin stripe, or wrap, etc that is placed 1/4" in front of the fletching.
It's purpose is to disrupt the airflow that is passing over the surface of the shaft. This allows the tiny A&A style fletching to stabilize the arrow better. Saves from having to use larger feathers. So it improves FOC, and it shoots quieter.
I was skeptical that such a tiny little strip could help but it does make my arrows less critical of my bad form.
If you are using larger feathers, then it's probably not needed. But if you are using fletching that is borderline too small, then it should help. A&A style fletching is only 1/2" high and as short as you can make it. But I guess it can be critical of form and broadhead stability. The turbulator (according to Ashby and RF) improve performance of the tiny fletching.
Creates higher FOC, less noise, better clearance out of the bow than high fletchings, less interference by cross wind, and slightly faster arrow.
A&A fletch and turbulator are part of building an extreme foc arrow.
 
Last edited:
Allegheny Tom said:
It's an Ashby arrow component. I know theres some videos out there somewhere in which he discusses it, but basically it's a little strip of tape, or pin stripe, or wrap, etc that is placed 1/4" in front of the fletching.
It's purpose is to disrupt the airflow that is passing over the surface of the shaft. This allows the tiny A&A style fletching to stabilize the arrow better. Saves from having to use larger feathers. So it improves FOC, and it shoots quieter.
I was skeptical that such a tiny little strip could help but it does make my arrows less critical of my bad form.
Click to expand...

Creates higher FOC, less noise, better clearance out of the bow than high fletchings, less interference by cross wind, and slightly faster arrow.
A&A fletch and turbulator are part of building an extreme foc arrow.
All of that seems intuitive with a smaller fletching, I am just hung up on this tuburlator thing. Is the thought that it adds stability? How would you quantify the shot with the turbulator, was the groupings noticeable, flight, trajectory, etc. different? Had you shot the smaller fletchings without turbulator? Can you you share a picture of you arrow, specifically the fletchings and turbulator when you get a chance?
 
gcr0003 said:
Creates higher FOC, less noise, better clearance out of the bow than high fletchings, less interference by cross wind, and slightly faster arrow.
A&A fletch and turbulator are part of building an extreme foc arrow.
All of that seems intuitive with a smaller fletching, I am just hung up on this tuburlator thing. Is the thought that it adds stability? How would you quantify the shot with the turbulator, was the groupings noticeable, flight, trajectory, etc. different? Had you shot the smaller fletchings without turbulator? Can you you share a picture of you arrow, specifically the fletchings and turbulator when you get a chance?
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that I am trying to build an Ashby style arrow as best as I can achieve it...over 650gr TAW, and pushing 30% uefoc. According to Ashby, 30% is difficult to reach but as the foc increases, penetration get exponentially better. And reducing nock-end weight is important towards increasing FOC.

If you've seen his paper clip demonstration, you'll understand why weight on the nock end is undesirable. Do as much as you can to make the nock end lighter.

Below is a pic of A&A (2.5") with turbulator compared to standard 4" shield cut fletchings.

I shot the 4" shield last year and it was a definite improvement over my old 5" helical fletch...so much quieter!
But I could occasionally get a little tail kick so I needed to raise my nock set pretty high to get adequate clearance.

I decided to try the A&A this summer but 2.5" off the shelf?? Seemed radical to me but I thought that I would try it in a four fletch. I was surprised at how well and how quiet they flew. But I would still get a tiny kick at times. I added the turbulator and so far it seems to have helped. I've not detected a kick yet.

So, how do I quantify my performance?
Audibly... was the 1st way. These fletchings definitely shoot much quieter than my old 5" helical. I'm 100% certain of that. This is important towards deer not jumping the string...quiet bow and quiet arrows.
Visually...I'm seeing less (no) tail kick coming out of the bow. A straight arrow out of the bow produces better penetration on ultra close shots. Its also less susceptible to wind interference and deflection when shooting in thick brush.
Ashby claims that his arrows are fully recovered within a few feet out of the bow. That's impressive.
Sometimes we get distracted in these discussions by one or 2 details, but if you keep each detail in context with other details then the reasons become clearer.
I trust Ashby. I don't believe that there is anyone on the planet that knows more about arrow lethality than him. His studies of over 30 years proves he knows his crap.
The turbulator is basically the final brush stroke in the painting.
180bd290df3e094473bcec6b362b6b9a.jpg


Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 
Allegheny Tom said:
Keep in mind that I am trying to build an Ashby style arrow as best as I can achieve it...over 650gr TAW, and pushing 30% uefoc. According to Ashby, 30% is difficult to reach but as the foc increases, penetration get exponentially better. And reducing nock-end weight is important towards increasing FOC.

If you've seen his paper clip demonstration, you'll understand why weight on the nock end is undesirable. Do as much as you can to make the nock end lighter.

Below is a pic of A&A (2.5") with turbulator compared to standard 4" shield cut fletchings.

I shot the 4" shield last year and it was a definite improvement over my old 5" helical fletch...so much quieter!
But I could occasionally get a little tail kick so I needed to raise my nock set pretty high to get adequate clearance.

I decided to try the A&A this summer but 2.5" off the shelf?? Seemed radical to me but I thought that I would try it in a four fletch. I was surprised at how well and how quiet they flew. But I would still get a tiny kick at times. I added the turbulator and so far it seems to have helped. I've not detected a kick yet.

So, how do I quantify my performance?
Audibly... was the 1st way. These fletchings definitely shoot much quieter than my old 5" helical. I'm 100% certain of that. This is important towards deer not jumping the string...quiet bow and quiet arrows.
Visually...I'm seeing less (no) tail kick coming out of the bow. A straight arrow out of the bow produces better penetration on ultra close shots. Its also less susceptible to wind interference and deflection when shooting in thick brush.
Ashby claims that his arrows are fully recovered within a few feet out of the bow. That's impressive.
Sometimes we get distracted in these discussions by one or 2 details, but if you keep each detail in context with other details then the reasons become clearer.
I trust Ashby. I don't believe that there is anyone on the planet that knows more about arrow lethality than him. His studies of over 30 years proves he knows his crap.
The turbulator is basically the final brush stroke in the painting.
180bd290df3e094473bcec6b362b6b9a.jpg


Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Thanks for explaining all that and adding pictures, it was very clear to understand. I was mainly curious about the difference the turbulator specifically made to the smaller fletching but after seeing the size of yours I think it’s a mute point because of how small it is. It appears to be a good set up and I’m sure it’s been fun to create those arrows! I can’t wait to see how they do for you.
 
One other thing that I like about A&A is I like a small bow quiver. I use an old Screaming Eagle quiver. My arrows are extremely close together when they are in the quiver. With conventional fletching, the feathers can sometimes make contact with the fletchings of the arrow beside it. That can make noise during the "shock" upon allow release. I hate when my feathers are touching each other in the quiver.
1/2" high, tiny A&A fletch fits in my quiver much better than those old 5" helical fletchings.
I KNOW that, all-in-all, these A&A are WAY BETTER than what I shot for the last 25+ years.
 
30% take some real magic....I use a wheel bow but I treat it like trad and build like trad....not exactly the same but I think they similar enough that I can comment.....
GPI of the shaft is the efoc killer....with a 400gr broadhead I can get to 29% according to the calculator....currently at 24%....super easy to load the front with all the newer heavy broadheads/inserts available but hard to find a light enough stick with a stiff enough spine....
 
Heydeerman said:
DANG! That eliminates the chopper and burner...I have both. Where can a guy get one of those mini pizza cuttin contraptions?
Click to expand...
BRO! you need to step up your crafting game and head on over to your local Joanns. They always have those puppies on sale. If you are going to use it for this application I would suggest buying some replacement blades as well. Who sells this jig or do you make your own?

1626437640879.png
 
You can get the A&A style template from Tuffhead. I purchased my templates from Merlin Archery in the UK. It was the cheapest company to get them shipped from. Get the largest rotary cutting wheel you can afford and a self healing mat. 3E84D441-F84E-4DB5-B867-D4E2982DA03C.png
 
Heydeerman said:
DANG! That eliminates the chopper and burner...I have both. Where can a guy get one of those mini pizza cuttin contraptions?
Click to expand...

I want one too!!!! That’s awesome!!! All my years custom building arrows and feathers…….I’ve never seen that tool! Outstanding!

——oh, I’ve never heard of a “tabulator” either. I had it all confused with my hypothilator and superstore controls I have installed on my stick bow missiles!:dizzy:
 
gcr0003 said:
Who sells this jig or do you make your own?
Click to expand...
Looks very easy to make a template....total length whatever u want...measure up 90 degrees from rear .5 and draw a straight line from ur .5 mark to nothing at the front..all straight cuts so should be pretty straightforward. I use/have the gateway 2" rayzr feathers....I think I will chop some up in the AA shape and play around....
I know laminar flow is more for fluids but I imagine the small amount of turbulence that's created preps the air molecules to hit the slight cup of the feather...I'm not smart enough to explain correctly in words but I get it in my mind...
 
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