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Do you tie off your saddle to the end of your tether?

Do you tie in to the end of your tether?

  • Yes

    Votes: 46 46.0%

  • No

    Votes: 54 54.0%
  • Total voters
    100
_Dario said:
Does anyone know of a thread outlining the various hitches, their pro’s/cons to using them and acceptable/unacceptable use cases?
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Here is one more good one
reecoil.com

TOP TEN FRICTION HITCHES - FOR CLIMBERS

Here we show you 10 of the best friction hitches that every climber should know! There always seem to be new ones coming out and it can be hard to keep up to date with it all. That isn’t to say that there aren’t still some classics out there that have stood the test of time but not to worry -...
reecoil.com reecoil.com
 
woodsdog2 said:
So what is the best practice then for your tether~bridge connection besides the prussic (either mechanical or rope) and your biner? I don't think I have ever watched anyone do that on any of the tether hunting videos. THAT being, tying in your stopper knot tag end of your tether off to your saddle. Is there official guidance on this? A video? Something from the arborist community? I'm not joking I just thought your biner, bridge and prussic were all that was necessary from a safety standards standpoint. I was using a rope prussic on my tether above my main connection with another biner but everybody was saying that is unnessarily redundant and it does still just completely rely on the integrity of your tether.
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It is my OPINION, mind you, inevitably biased by my background (which involves lots of tying in and out during the course of one day, which multiplies the chances for human error), that the greatest danger posed to me by saddle hunting is not a gear failure, but a human failure. Mis-tying my distel hitch and not noticing. Leaving my gate open on my biner. My bridge getting cut by something sharp.

Tying your tether to your saddle means that you are tying two knots. You are much less likely to screw up two knots in a row than one. What I do, which should NOT be taken as any kind of professional recommendation, is tie the end of my tether into a super 8, each ear gets a biner, which clip into my bridge loops.
 
Zoa said:
It is my OPINION, mind you, inevitably biased by my background (which involves lots of tying in and out during the course of one day, which multiplies the chances for human error), that the greatest danger posed to me by saddle hunting is not a gear failure, but a human failure. Mis-tying my distel hitch and not noticing. Leaving my gate open on my biner. My bridge getting cut by something sharp.

Tying your tether to your saddle means that you are tying two knots. You are much less likely to screw up two knots in a row than one. What I do, which should NOT be taken as any kind of professional recommendation, is tie the end of my tether into a super 8, each ear gets a biner, which clip into my bridge loops.
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Tying into your bridge loops on both sides (basically like a secondary bridge) Now this makes more sense than someone tying into a single linesman loop which was mentioned way earlier in this thread. That would absolutely be strong enough to hold you if somehow you fell. Also I agree 100% human error is always a risk. Not everyone has a tether long enough to do that though just like not everyone has a system of checks and inspections down. Not everyone can properly tie a hitch or a knot. But as for human error, and again I am not for or against your stance…. But couldn’t that same human error logic just as easily be applied to tying in to your saddle incorrectly? As fas as something sharp cutting the bridge, it would take quite a slice almost on purpose to create a cut deep enough for that to concern me. Not saying reuse that bridge after the slice occurred, I am saying you’d retire it immediately per manufacturer instructions. I’ve purposely sat in the yard with some 3/8” marine grade double braid and hit my broadhead across it like 5 or 6 times before it cut it enough to cause failure and that was me really cutting across it hard. Climbing and tactical ropes have much stronger sheaths than marine ropes (even though the strengths are basically identical). Just my opinion but the bridge being cut is not an area of concern for me personally.
 
Fl Canopy Stalker said:
Tying into your bridge loops on both sides (basically like a secondary bridge) Now this makes more sense than someone tying into a single linesman loop which was mentioned way earlier in this thread. That would absolutely be strong enough to hold you if somehow you fell. Also I agree 100% human error is always a risk. Not everyone has a tether long enough to do that though just like not everyone has a system of checks and inspections down. Not everyone can properly tie a hitch or a knot. But as for human error, and again I am not for or against your stance…. But couldn’t that same human error logic just as easily be applied to tying in to your saddle incorrectly? As fas as something sharp cutting the bridge, it would take quite a slice almost on purpose to create a cut deep enough for that to concern me. Not saying reuse that bridge after the slice occurred, I am saying you’d retire it immediately per manufacturer instructions. I’ve purposely sat in the yard with some 3/8” marine grade double braid and hit my broadhead across it like 5 or 6 times before it cut it enough to cause failure and that was me really cutting across it hard. Climbing and tactical ropes have much stronger sheaths than marine ropes (even though the strengths are basically identical). Just my opinion but the bridge being cut is not an area of concern for me personally.
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Yeah bridge getting cut ain't high up there for me either, was thinking more about a small slice happening, me not noticing it and it slowly getting worse or something. Poor example on my part.

As to human error, I am equally likely to screw up tying into my saddle as I am tying the distel hitch, you are correct. But I am much less likely to screw up both on the same climb. It might not be the biggest deal ever, but, like I said earlier, it never even crossed my mind that I wouldn't tie in somehow. I haven't gone and evaluated all the risks of different methods and come to this as a solution, I just did it because in the world I come from that's how you do things.
 
Zoa said:
Yeah bridge getting cut ain't high up there for me either, was thinking more about a small slice happening, me not noticing it and it slowly getting worse or something. Poor example on my part.

As to human error, I am equally likely to screw up tying into my saddle as I am tying the distel hitch, you are correct. But I am much less likely to screw up both on the same climb. It might not be the biggest deal ever, but, like I said earlier, it never even crossed my mind that I wouldn't tie in somehow. I haven't gone and evaluated all the risks of different methods and come to this as a solution, I just did it because in the world I come from that's how you do things.
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I definitely appreciate your outlook on it as someone who probably utilizes ropes and hitches more than most. I wasn’t insinuating that you were in any way wrong because I agree 100% on human error defacto!!!! And safety is each of our responsibility. I like that you own your own personal safety and that you are not scared to voice it here.
 
So then @Zoa can you snap a pic or two of how you would tie off your tether tag end onto your saddle? Thanks @Fl Canopy Stalker for reviewing the OSHA and ANSI specs. I have Jepson's Tree Climber's Companion book and I will look in that to see if there is any recommendation in that. I didn't see anything in the US Forest Service's Tree Climbing Policy Guidance Document @kyler1945 provided a link to the other day. BTW, has anybody reviewed that? I thought the knot tying section (part 4 I believe) was excellent.
 
I got a couple mins to review the page that [mention]Fl Canopy Stalker [/mention]posted earlier and stumbled on this. So then it’s settled. We just have to tie in “properly”.

I take this to mean a figure 8 tied onto the bridge with the end of your tether? Like rock climbers into their belay loop?

5f7e2869b9411956e7435a07e635aa06.jpg



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I just finished tying a few figure 8s below my prussic, since at least for now, this is my new plan. At one point, I was running double prussics on my bridge. Redundant.

This thread has been an eye opener. I need to examine my assumptions more closely. At the end of the day, I REALLY wanna go home to my wife and kids. It takes minimal effort to add a few fail-safes and look for things I can clean up.
 
woodsdog2 said:
So then @Zoa can you snap a pic or two of how you would tie off your tether tag end onto your saddle? Thanks @Fl Canopy Stalker for reviewing the OSHA and ANSI specs. I have Jepson's Tree Climber's Companion book and I will look in that to see if there is any recommendation in that. I didn't see anything in the US Forest Service's Tree Climbing Policy Guidance Document @kyler1945 provided a link to the other day. BTW, has anybody reviewed that? I thought the knot tying section (part 4 I believe) was excellent.
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I reviewed it. I found it very helpful. Also worth noting the forestry service sets their guidelines and rules based off of ANSI standards. If you do find anything in Jepson’s that states a redundant tie off while using an adjustable lanyard, it would definitely be worth mentioning. I am only guessing here, but Zoa’s system would probably require a 10-12’ tether, if he’s producing the super 8 to both bridge loops. Again that is a guess having never tried it before.
 
kyler1945 said:
No one really responded to this. It was really my main next thought when I asked the original question. The idea that this question got ZERO run, is kind of the reason I asked to begin with, and one of my big concerns with HOW we all think about this stuff, not necessarily what we think.
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phatkaw said:
A follow through figure eight tied to something like this should be ok?View attachment 50318
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Sorry guys, this thread is killing me.....I had to comment, I know I said I"d stay out of it....but...

Just use a figure-8 on a bite as the stopper knot at the bottom of the tether below the friction hitch with a barrel backup and clip a locking biner to it and whatever you decide to be your "anchor" point on your saddle....Ideally this would be a point on your saddle that ties your "full strength", "Rated" (yeah right...) leg loops into your waist belt, so should you fall the pressure is spread through the seat of the "Harness" and forces you into almost a sitting position.

Wait a second, rated leg loops might actually matter in a fall situation? Those RCH manufacturers must have really been onto something FIFTY years ago...
 
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Fl Canopy Stalker said:
As a back up tie in yes that would work great…. However if the worse happened, 100% of that force will be applied to your back with no way to divide that force. That should always be a consideration.
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Right. As a back up.
If the back up is needed something else probably already slowed me down enough to not bust my back... Hopefully!
 
philsanchez76 said:
On my kestrel the tag end is clipped to carabiner on bridge. Now that I have a Dryad Drey, I am pumped to be able to tie tag end to d loop on the separate harness while the prusik holds the saddle itself. A little more separation of systems (2 totally separate ones for the matter) there while actually being lighter than my kestrel.
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I am liking the same things you are


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Dang I have never even thought about tying off or even a second safety line. But after reading all this you all got me scared. Lol. i Think I will wear my old tree stand safety harness as a back up. Lmao. ☠️
 
All saddles are different in design and none are fall arrest devices so I don’t think there is a one size fits all answer. I think ideally you would go through a loop or ring on your waist belt and down through a loop connected to your load rated leg straps. Most saddles have neither..so really I think it can’t hurt to put this backup somewhere on your saddle but it’s like putting lipstick on a pig. The commercial saddles I have seen have been designed with the assumption that you are connecting to your tether via prusik to your bridge and the buck stops there.
 
Fl Canopy Stalker said:
As a back up tie in yes that would work great…. However if the worse happened, 100% of that force will be applied to your back with no way to divide that force. That should always be a consideration.
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So still not accepting a screamer into the system to prevent this??? Why not??
 
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