Do you tie off your saddle to the end of your tether?

[kyler1945]

You aren't going to change the general hunting public assumptions especially when you have commercially available saddles. Granted, most people will do an internet search and watch some videos and see some things on social media, but saddle hunting is so tied to the DIY mindset, that you aren't going to change that. And, with that DIY mindset, people are going to do things that aren't "safe".

People are applying "ground already covered" mindset to their behaviors in this arena. They should be applying "cutting edge not done before DIY" to their behaviors in this arena.

I'm not arguing that there isn't a subset of people in this community that understand they're pioneering, or truly ignore risk assessment.

Again, I think you guys are missing my point. There are A LOT of people engaging in A LOT of behaviors based on A LOT of assumptions that are incorrect. There are not a lot of people who are in the DIY full risk assumption mode that you're describing. These are two different groups of people, in their own minds, that are engaging in the same actual behavior. I'm trying to point out to the "just tell me what to do to be safe" crowd that they're not getting the answers they believe they are.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Bump on this question??

I personally do not see loose webbing on webbing being an issue, if it was, they wouldn’t allow you to choke slings. Again this is opinion based solely on experience rigging. I have found no written rules stating that loose webbing or non loaded rope for that matter cannot be placed around other webbing. If someone has written guidelines stating one way or the other, I would love to see them.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Goo

New Proposed Saddle hunting Standards to the ASTM:

WK75939 Hunting Saddle Static Load Capacity

WK75936 Hunting Saddles

WK75942 Hunting Saddle Dynamic Load Capacity

Excellent post. Glad to see someone is up to date. If I am not mistaken the next meeting is in Alabama at the end of this month. Also interestingly enough is the idea that it’s safe to dynamically load hunting saddles! I can’t wait to see what sort of ideas this committee is trying to get to pass, since saddles are not made to arrest a fall???????……!!!!!!!

 

[LAKY]

People are applying "ground already covered" mindset to their behaviors in this arena. They should be applying "cutting edge not done before DIY" to their behaviors in this arena.

I'm not arguing that there isn't a subset of people in this community that understand they're pioneering, or truly ignore risk assessment.

Again, I think you guys are missing my point. There are A LOT of people engaging in A LOT of behaviors based on A LOT of assumptions that are incorrect. There are not a lot of people who are in the DIY full risk assumption mode that you're describing. These are two different groups of people, in their own minds, that are engaging in the same actual behavior. I'm trying to point out to the "just tell me what to do to be safe" crowd that they're not getting the answers they believe they are.

I get your point, but I think with commercially available saddles, you're not going to change incorrect assumptions for those "just tell me what to do to be safe" crowd. They're going to assume things that aren't necessarily true because it's available for purchase.

 

[philsanchez76]

I personally do not see loose webbing on webbing being an issue, if it was, they wouldn’t allow you to choke slings. Again this is opinion based solely on experience rigging. I have found no written rules stating that loose webbing or non loaded rope for that matter cannot be placed around other webbing. If someone has written guidelines stating one way or the other, I would love to see them.

Thx buddy!

 

[gcr0003]

Goo

Excellent post. Glad to see someone is up to date. If I am not mistaken the next meeting is in Alabama at the end of this month. Also interestingly enough is the idea that it’s safe to dynamically load hunting saddles! I can’t wait to see what sort of ideas this committee is trying to get to pass, since saddles are not made to arrest a fall???????……!!!!!!!

I think that would refer to dynamically testing it i.e. what loads that saddle itself would withstand. I think other testing or regulation would be needed for acceptable dynamic loading on a work positioning non full body harness. Just because the a saddle could be tested to withstand 3000 lb loading, doesn't mean you would want to be in one when it does. Hopefully this distinction doesn't add more confusion to the saddle hunting community. I'd hate to see a dynamic load test certified iaw with ASTM sticker stamped on a saddle and people buying it thinking its safe to fall in. Surely, that is not what they have in mind.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I think that would refer to dynamically testing it i.e. what loads that saddle itself would withstand. I think other testing or regulation would be needed for acceptable dynamic loading on a work positioning non full body harness. Just because the a saddle could be tested to withstand 3000 lb loading, doesn't mean you would want to be in one when it does. Hopefully this distinction doesn't add more confusion to the saddle hunting community. I'd hate to see a dynamic load test certified iaw with ASTM sticker stamped on a saddle and people buying it thinking its safe to fall in. Surely, that is not what they have in mind.

I believe certain criteria from FBH/FAS will be utilized for saddle standards. I am more curious about force generated tests than 300 lbs straight drop. A saddle is in loop configuration, a lot of saddles using any material sewn with a 2000 lbs and 2000 lbs of thread break strength should pass a 300 lbs straight drop. Because again the saddle is technically a loop. I’m more concerned with linesman loop tests since climbing onto the platform is your biggest risk of fall and of course the fall generated force test. If 1800 lbs is safe for full body harness, I would hope the saddles would need to be under 1500 or even 1400 lbs generated. Since the weight distribution is directly applied to your waist area only.

 

[kyler1945]

I believe certain criteria from FBH/FAS will be utilized for saddle standards. I am more curious about force generated tests than 300 lbs straight drop. A saddle is in loop configuration, a lot of saddles using any material sewn with a 2000 lbs and 2000 lbs of thread break strength should pass a 300 lbs straight drop. Because again the saddle is technically a loop. I’m more concerned with linesman loop tests since climbing onto the platform is your biggest risk of fall and of course the fall generated force test. If 1800 lbs is safe for full body harness, I would hope the saddles would need to be under 1500 or even 1400 lbs generated. Since the weight distribution is directly applied to your waist area only.

This conversation also makes me think about the evolution back around to the aero hunter evo. Both in little things brought up around here, and from a safety perspective.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

This conversation also makes me think about the evolution back around to the aero hunter evo. Both in little things brought up around here, and from a safety perspective.

The evolution still places the majority of force on your waist, it does however allow your leg loops to be truly load bearing similar to a RCH. Even still, the Evo was not designed for fall arrest either, just like all arborist saddles, it was work positioning. I do agree though. I am hopeful a shift occurs that gets us off the weight weight weight concept and more onto safe safe safe. I mean regardless, you’re already cutting massive amounts of weight as opposed to most hang ons and all climbers so…..

 

[woodsdog2]

So assuming a guy is now going to start tying directly to his saddle, should he double up at his bridge? Run an"auxillary" bridge and attach to that? Research the heck out of it himself and take responsibility for his own life?

I ran two bridges all year last year. An amsteel utilibridge and the stock nylon bridge that came with my saddle.

 

[woodsdog2]

So what is the best practice then for your tether~bridge connection besides the prussic (either mechanical or rope) and your biner? I don't think I have ever watched anyone do that on any of the tether hunting videos. THAT being, tying in your stopper knot tag end of your tether off to your saddle. Is there official guidance on this? A video? Something from the arborist community? I'm not joking I just thought your biner, bridge and prussic were all that was necessary from a safety standards standpoint. I was using a rope prussic on my tether above my main connection with another biner but everybody was saying that is unnessarily redundant and it does still just completely rely on the integrity of your tether.

 

[Plebe]

People are applying "ground already covered" mindset to their behaviors in this arena. They should be applying "cutting edge not done before DIY" to their behaviors in this arena.

Stick and platform manufacturers could benefit from a similar thought process. And users should understand how technologically limited even the cutting edge hunting manufacturers are. Some are little better than DIYers with means.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

So what is the best practice then for your tether~bridge connection besides the prussic (either mechanical or rope) and your biner? I don't think I have ever watched anyone do that on any of the tether hunting videos. THAT being, tying in your stopper knot tag end of your tether off to your saddle. Is there official guidance on this? A video? Something from the arborist community? I'm not joking I just thought your biner, bridge and prussic were all that was necessary from a safety standards standpoint. I was using a rope prussic on my tether above my main connection with another biner but everybody was saying that is unnessarily redundant and it does still just completely rely on the integrity of your tether.

There is no written safety protocol that I have been able to find that says you should or must tie off the end of your adjustable lanyard system. In fact the things I have found specifically mention use of a double over hand stopper knot. I am not saying a protocol does not exist, I am stating that I cannot find one from OSHA, ANSI or from the US forestry service guidelines. So I am under the assumption that using your tether (lanyard) with a prusik or a mechanical with a stopper knot at the end of the rope is sufficient from a safety standpoint.

 

[kyler1945]

So what is the best practice then for your tether~bridge connection besides the prussic (either mechanical or rope) and your biner? I don't think I have ever watched anyone do that on any of the tether hunting videos. THAT being, tying in your stopper knot tag end of your tether off to your saddle. Is there official guidance on this? A video? Something from the arborist community? I'm not joking I just thought your biner, bridge and prussic were all that was necessary from a safety standards standpoint. I was using a rope prussic on my tether above my main connection with another biner but everybody was saying that is unnessarily redundant and it does still just completely rely on the integrity of your tether.

It sounds like there are some guidelines referenced earlier that are ok with this type of connection.

my concerns were that no one actually knew that that was doing it, and that there’s a pile of people tying their own hitches and buying them from random Amazon sellers. And using mechanical devices outside spec.

lots and lots of people. Lots and lots of opportunity for error

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Stick and platform manufacturers could benefit from a similar thought process. And users should understand how technologically limited even the cutting edge hunting manufacturers are. Some are little better than DIYers with means.

Some aren’t as good as DIY’ers period, means or not… thank goodness for forums and some non sponsored you tube channels though to help sort out the bs……

 

[kyler1945]

Another interesting thing is that when I first tied into a saddle, I immediately assumed my primary connection was my tie in to the tether/harness, and a hitch was there to locate me on it.

it never occurred to me that tying into just the hitch was ok.

Part of this might be i started hunting with a rock climbing harness long before saddle. I did my best to have it with hardly any slack. But I was tied straight in. Didn’t even know what a prussik was.

my thinking and practices evolved once I discovered SH. But it’s funny how different folks think when they first approach a problem. Humans are all different.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

It sounds like there are some guidelines referenced earlier that are ok with this type of connection.

my concerns were that no one actually knew that that was doing it, and that there’s a pile of people tying their own hitches and buying them from random Amazon sellers. And using mechanical devices outside spec.

lots and lots of people. Lots and lots of opportunity for error

That’s why I always default to the idea of the lowly prusik, it’s super simple to tie on and almost completely idiot proof…. Find out your rope size, go 2 or 3mm down from there and purchase a presewn loop. You wrap it inside of itself 3 to 4 times and that’s a wrap lol pun intended. It’s the fancier hitches that can often look similar but have very different characteristics and needed for different applications, that I worry about. The average hunter wouldn’t know the correct time to utilize a schwabish, or know how it looks compared to a lowly VT… those are the hitches that concern me when people with limited practice and only experience is via a you tube video. Heck sometimes I wonder if the people in the you tube videos have used the methods more than a couple times before releasing “how to’s”

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Another interesting thing is that when I first tied into a saddle, I immediately assumed my primary connection was my tie in to the tether/harness, and a hitch was there to locate me on it.

it never occurred to me that tying into just the hitch was ok.

Part of this might be i started hunting with a rock climbing harness long before saddle. I did my best to have it with hardly any slack. But I was tied straight in. Didn’t even know what a prussik was.

my thinking and practices evolved once I discovered SH. But it’s funny how different folks think when they first approach a problem. Humans are all different.

If I had come over from any rock climbing back ground, I would have been right there with you man.

 

[_Dario]

Does anyone know of a thread outlining the various hitches, their pro’s/cons to using them and acceptable/unacceptable use cases?

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Does anyone know of a thread outlining the various hitches, their pro’s/cons to using them and acceptable/unacceptable use cases?

I’m not sure about a thread but there are several good sites high lighting advantages and disadvantages

Prusik Knots: How To Tie Different Types of Prusiks - VDiff Climbing

A prusik is a short piece of cord which can be wrapped around your climbing rope to add friction. They can slide up and down easily, but...

www.vdiffclimbing.com