Tethrd One Sticks Gen 2

[deertrout]

Expecting things to just work is silly. The cheap heavy business model and the light expensive business model are both viable. Expecting the products to perform the same way is the expecter's fault, not the business.

I couldn't disagree more with this post. I've worked in manufacturing for 20 years as a Quality Manager and will try to keep the jargon to a minimum but there are some basic concepts at play that are being violated here.

First, when a consumer buys something from a manufacturer, regardless of whether its a $300 climbing stick or a $50 stick, they are expecting to purchase what was advertised/promised. If they don't get what is advertised/promised, the manufacturer violated their part of the purchase agreement.

Second, product realization 101 starts with a concept, then verification and validation that the concept works, then manufacturing process design and verification, and then you start building/shipping production parts. Doesn't matter what the industry is, these basic steps apply. To skip any of this or rush it through before production is a recipe for quality or productivity issues which lead to reduced profits and customer dissatisfaction. Outside of their saddles and some accessories, Tethrd has now crossed over into the realm of this kind of thing becoming a trend vs an isolated incident. A spill like this happening once, or even once every now and then might be forgivable if they did their due diligence up front, but take their saddles out of the conversation and this kind of thing has happened more than it hasn't on their new product launches. That's a giant red flag in their business model and points to weak quality processes. And it's unforgivable on products where user safety is a consideration.

On a completely different note, don't throw Chinese made products completely under the bus. It's not 1980 anymore and China has mostly caught up or has exceeded us in some areas of manufacturing. I've personally toured multiple manufacturing facilities in China and dozens of plants in the USA, and unfortunately, made in the USA doesn't mean the same thing it once used to.

 

[Plebe]

An aider attached out on the tips of the step is gonna be putting more strain on the area in question/that broke vs a foot on top spreading the load over more surface area

Plus the shock of stepping up on such an aider. Probably a wobble in the step wouldn't help the cause either.

 

[raisins]

I will say from a Mechanical Design and Test Engineer standpoint, not all issues with a design are discovered in initial testing, especially tolerannce issues like what I described above. You go on making a certain part for years with the same tolerance, but the second you’re on the outer end of a tolerance on two mating parts the part doesn’t fit together or you have failure like what’s being described here.

I would love to have more information on the parts and the issues identified as the cause, this is the stuff I do for work and though it sucks when you have a problem like this, it is very rewarding to find the cause and create a solution as well. Someone from tethrd send me your assembly and part drawings, I’ll get this fixed right up for ya! Haha

I was shocked when gen 2 looked just like gen 1 and even had the roll pin. That made me think they were too invested in that design for one reason or another. If gen 2 was different and made sense to me immediately in "this will fix the issue", then I would've bought some the first day probably.

So, they need some fresh eyes on this maybe.

 

[Weldabeast]

Imo they should have told all the glue aficionados to suck it and glued the piss outta them and added a 2nd roll pin to the original 1stick and that would be a pretty sweet climbing stick...imo

 

[raisins]

Imo they should have told all the glue aficionados to suck it and glued the piss outta them and added a 2nd roll pin to the original 1stick and that would be a pretty sweet climbing stick...imo

I was thinking 2 high strength/thin bolts perpendicular to each other....but 2 roll pins in the same configuration would probably have gotten my money

plus, i always thought 'with as strong as adhesives are now, why are they having this issue?'

unless they are in China watching, the factory could be saying 'yeah, we used your special american glue' and then going and getting generic elmer's or something and how will tethrd know? if they go visit the factory, just go grab the special glue and act like you've been using it all along

 

[kyler1945]

That is close to what I was thinking as well. You also have to consider tolerance stack with press fit pieces. The titanium tube probably has a pretty tight tolerance already (most tubes do) so most of your press fit tolerance would come from your plug and your step hole size and tolerance. If they were sloppy doing their tolerance stack there could easily be a scenario where the plug diameter is within tolerance but still the upper end in size and the bracket hole is within tolerance but on the lower end of size. This would be the tightest interference fit. If the interference is too great, you can easily cause stress fracturing during press fit installation. If I had to guess this could be the issue since tolerance stack is often overlooked because most of your parts are going to be made close to the nominal or center of your dimensional tolerance, not the ends. Parts can and will still pass inspection on the low and high end of the tolerance band but if they are at the worst case on (biggest plug and smallest hole) you could have problems. Add to the pressfit the pressure from the pin and it’s not hard to guess why they’re having failures with this design.

I routinely have this conversation with customers. They're besides themselves that a complicated piece of equipment in a dynamic environment is experiencing issues. When we run through all the failure modes that their particular flavor of crazy introduce, suddenly the failures seem less surprising. Doing tradeoff analysis retroactively often eats into all the upside everyone assumed when they tried to get cute.

 

[Glenn]

None of this is surprising. Just another tethr'ing.

 

[kyler1945]

I couldn't disagree more with this post. I've worked in manufacturing for 20 years as a Quality Manager and will try to keep the jargon to a minimum but there are some basic concepts at play that are being violated here.

First, when a consumer buys something from a manufacturer, regardless of whether its a $300 climbing stick or a $50 stick, they are expecting to purchase what was advertised/promised. If they don't get what is advertised/promised, the manufacturer violated their part of the purchase agreement.

To skip any of this or rush it through before production is a recipe for quality or productivity issues which lead to reduced profits and customer dissatisfaction.

That's a giant red flag in their business model and points to weak quality processes. And it's unforgivable on products where user safety is a consideration.

What did Tethrd advertise/promise? What did they deliver? They advertised a one pound stick that passed a 300lb weight rating testing standard. What did they deliver? That exact thing.

Has Tethrd seen a decrease in profits due to customer dissatisfaction? I think there's compelling evidence the opposite is true.

Has Tethrd seen a decrease in customer satisfaction that has grown at a faster rate than the rate of satisfied customers? I think there's compelling evidence the opposite is true.

I would say it isn't unforgivable, seeing as they continue to grow, and by all accounts, increase in profitability.




I want to be clear, I'm not saying right or wrong, or disagree with what you WANT to be true here. What I am saying is that none of what you've said appears to be taking shape here. And it's why I made that post. Everything you said SHOULD be happening. And it would, in a market where the product's actual purpose is advertised and realized by purchasing and using the product. Because it's not happening here, is a glaring sign that WHY people are buying their products can't be explained largely by utility.

 

[Nutterbuster]

Because it's not happening here, is a glaring sign that WHY people are buying their products can't be explained largely by utility.

Sniff...sniff....

Anybody else smell an elephant in the brain?

 

[kyler1945]

First, when a consumer buys something from a manufacturer, regardless of whether its a $300 climbing stick or a $50 stick, they are expecting to purchase what was advertised/promised. If they don't get what is advertised/promised, the manufacturer violated their part of the purchase agreement.

Another way to look at this.

What is Tethrd reaaallllly advertising? Well, they're pithcing me on a story. And that story goes something like this:

Look, you're not very good at killing deer Kyle. Part of it is you. But most of it is that you don't go far enough into the woods, comfortably enough, to kill deer. This is because your kit is too old and weighs too much.

Why would you want to do that, you ask? Well, other hunters are watching you. We're nosy monkeys it seems. And they might want to be your friend. Or they might want to like you, or look up to you, or give you prestige and status. You need to LOOK like the type of monkey they might want to befriend. And if you're a hunter monkey, and you want to be in the hunter monkey tribe, you can't just be kind of a hunter monkey. You have to realllllly be a hunter monkey. You have to go harder deeper longer better lighter more more more.

You see, whether or not you kill lots of deer doesn't matter much. Whether or not you're a good hunter doesn't matter much. What matters, is that you look like you might. And what better way to look like you're such a good hunter, than to devote significant resources to the most extreme version of hunting equipment. It really shows your commitment! And only a good hunter would be willing/able to make that commitment. Buying Hawk sticks for 120.00? Really, you think that's impressive? these one sticks are 400.00. THAT'S commitment. Look at ME!




I promise there is a chunk of people who get full utility out of lightweight, advanced, highly technical gear for hunting/fishing/camping/etc.

I fall into that category sometimes. Many times I don't. And every time I reflect on it I feel really stupid.

Why am I bringing this up? Because people are turning themselves into knots trying to explain how this continues to happen. If you look at this from a utility/rationality perspective, it doesn't make sense. As soon as you zoom out, and refocus through an evolutionary psychology lens, the behavior of the company, and the customers, make complete sense.

I don't know why I'm wasting my breath talking about it. But I guess if one person reconsiders their consumption and makes a choice more fully informed, it was worth it.

 

[thedutchtouch]

So... Who else wants a hunting product testing company staffed by @kyler1945 and @deertrout? I want to read that report

 

[gcr0003]

Because it's not happening here, is a glaring sign that WHY people are buying their products can't be explained largely by utility.

It’s not about utility, it’s about being cool and and having cool looking toys. The weight difference is negligible, the way they pack is negligible, the way they attach to the tree is negligible, but they do look cooler than the og lonewolf sticks or hawk helium’s. Cool always has a higher price tag, one that I’m not usually willing to pay.

 

[gcr0003]

Another way to look at this.

What is Tethrd reaaallllly advertising? Well, they're pithcing me on a story. And that story goes something like this:

Look, you're not very good at killing deer Kyle. Part of it is you. But most of it is that you don't go far enough into the woods, comfortably enough, to kill deer. This is because your kit is too old and weighs too much.

Why would you want to do that, you ask? Well, other hunters are watching you. We're nosy monkeys it seems. And they might want to be your friend. Or they might want to like you, or look up to you, or give you prestige and status. You need to LOOK like the type of monkey they might want to befriend. And if you're a hunter monkey, and you want to be in the hunter monkey tribe, you can't just be kind of a hunter monkey. You have to realllllly be a hunter monkey. You have to go harder deeper longer better lighter more more more.

You see, whether or not you kill lots of deer doesn't matter much. Whether or not you're a good hunter doesn't matter much. What matters, is that you look like you might. And what better way to look like you're such a good hunter, than to devote significant resources to the most extreme version of hunting equipment. It really shows your commitment! And only a good hunter would be willing/able to make that commitment. Buying Hawk sticks for 120.00? Really, you think that's impressive? these one sticks are 400.00. THAT'S commitment. Look at ME!




I promise there is a chunk of people who get full utility out of lightweight, advanced, highly technical gear for hunting/fishing/camping/etc.

I fall into that category sometimes. Many times I don't. And every time I reflect on it I feel really stupid.

Why am I bringing this up? Because people are turning themselves into knots trying to explain how this continues to happen. If you look at this from a utility/rationality perspective, it doesn't make sense. As soon as you zoom out, and refocus through an evolutionary psychology lens, the behavior of the company, and the customers, make complete sense.

I don't know why I'm wasting my breath talking about it. But I guess if one person reconsiders their consumption and makes a choice more fully informed, it was worth it.

This is like trying to fix your wife’s, girlfriend, or friends problems when they are complaining. They don’t want an explanation of why their choices led to this place and how they could change those choices and change the outcome. Nor do they want to know how to fix the current problem or avoid it in the future. They just want you to listen to them vent. Let the boys vent! Lol

 

[Plebe]

You guys and your elephant book and all this mumbo jumbo.

The main attraction is the "est". People want that "est". In this case lightest. Too bad not best, apparently.

 

[dalton916]

Sniff...sniff....

Anybody else smell an elephant in the brain?

 

[kyler1945]

Do you want advice or comfort?

The question saving relationships since time immemorial….

 

[deertrout]

So... Who else wants a hunting product testing company staffed by @kyler1945 and @deertrout? I want to read that report

We'll call our company, "Testd."

What did Tethrd advertise/promise? What did they deliver? They advertised a one pound stick that passed a 300lb weight rating testing standard. What did they deliver? That exact thing.

Has Tethrd seen a decrease in profits due to customer dissatisfaction? I think there's compelling evidence the opposite is true.

Has Tethrd seen a decrease in customer satisfaction that has grown at a faster rate than the rate of satisfied customers? I think there's compelling evidence the opposite is true.

I would say it isn't unforgivable, seeing as they continue to grow, and by all accounts, increase in profitability.

I want to be clear, I'm not saying right or wrong, or disagree with what you WANT to be true here. What I am saying is that none of what you've said appears to be taking shape here. And it's why I made that post. Everything you said SHOULD be happening. And it would, in a market where the product's actual purpose is advertised and realized by purchasing and using the product. Because it's not happening here, is a glaring sign that WHY people are buying their products can't be explained largely by utility.

I don't think we're too far off, but still have some differences of opinion here and there. We can iron those out when we are putting together the Testd business plan.

 

[kyler1945]

We'll call our company, "Testd."


I don't think we're too far off, but still have some differences of opinion here and there. We can iron those out when we are putting together the Testd business plan.

Haha Testd. That’s funny.

I’ll gladly run a gear lab if the folks around here pay for it. Destroying flashy hunting gear funded by my camp buddies seems way better than destroying flashy hunting gear I paid for!

 

[kyler1945]

This is like trying to fix your wife’s, girlfriend, or friends problems when they are complaining. They don’t want an explanation of why their choices led to this place and how they could change those choices and change the outcome. Nor do they want to know how to fix the current problem or avoid it in the future. They just want you to listen to them vent. Let the boys vent! Lol

 

[kyler1945]

All my sweaters are snagged. I mean ALL of them.