When Chad said the new Cruzr sticks were polymer. I asked if they were like Treehopper steps. He said no, a super strong high grade polymer. I hope you are right.
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Tethrd One Sticks Gen 2
- Thread starter Chris_Goetz
- Start date
dwh84
Member
I have also asked for a full refund with the return label. I am not pleased with the lack of information on the "testing". The whole process is unsettling.
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Ok guys… keep in mind I don’t own the Tethrd sticks. I’ve seen the gen 1’s a couple times but have never seen or touched the gen 2’s…. As a guy who spends a lot of time re engineering things that engineers engineer (looks good on paper right?) I was thinking on the top stick breaking and I wonder if….. rather than a bad batch of material or even cheap Chinese workmanship… if memory serves me right, to help tighten the top step, they added a plug that was essentially forced in the end to prevent wobble. If nothing else changed on the step construction and knowing what I know about a)dissimilar metals and b) how metal expands and contracts in hot and cold environments….
Is it possible that the plug in the end of the titanium causing the flare is expanding and since titanium is stronger than aluminum, perhaps the expansion of the plug and tube flare, are creating the extra stress and causing the top step to crack???? Maybe this is just misuse of material or an engineering flaw, not necessarily a craftsmanship or batch flaw? Any metal work professionals (welders or fabricators) want to chime in. Sorry guys instead of bashing them, I’d rather help solve the issue so that all of you can get the lightweight stick you want and deserve…..
Is it possible that the plug in the end of the titanium causing the flare is expanding and since titanium is stronger than aluminum, perhaps the expansion of the plug and tube flare, are creating the extra stress and causing the top step to crack???? Maybe this is just misuse of material or an engineering flaw, not necessarily a craftsmanship or batch flaw? Any metal work professionals (welders or fabricators) want to chime in. Sorry guys instead of bashing them, I’d rather help solve the issue so that all of you can get the lightweight stick you want and deserve…..
Hmm....no engineer but maybe that is the most obvious answer to the unknown problem? That by trying to fix one issue they created another one?
From what I understand, aluminum crack, but steel and other metals can stretch better before breaking points. So maybe the hollowness of the tube help it absorb some of the stress?
If the Gen 1 is ok, but the Gen 2 are breaking, and the only change at that particular point is the addition of the plug. Are we over thinking the issue?
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I think that could have been it. Added a new problem by trying to correct a different one….. Aluminum does break but all metals expand and contract. Titanium and aluminum are no different. I think maybe by adding a plug that could also expand inside the tatanium, the spot where the steps mount would now be getting additional added stress not just from the outside where the glue and pin are, but from the inside where the flare could be expanding. Again just thinking out loud. Not saying that’s the case…
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I can't presume to know if Tethrd knows the root cause or not, or if this is even one off right now or multiple reports.
What's interesting is no recall on GEN1.
I wonder if that is because:
1. They are out of Warranty now
2. Tethrd believes this is a materials and/or manufacturing problem specific to Gen2
3. Tethrd need to find out if the new design is causing the problem
4. Still banking on that chemical weld
One guy on here posted and made a video saying his roll pin wasn't fully seated.
My guess is they know what the problem is and it is a faulty batch of material that impacts some unknown number sticks but, not all. If it was design issue their recall plan of stressing sticks and then sending them back if they pass makes no sense.
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I wonder what the timeline would be to make that determination, and how long it took to get a recall/safety notice going.
[Just read a post by an Administrator on the bowhunting.com forums who said he spoke to Greg over the weekend and knew it was coming yesterday....anyone know when the pictured incident happened?]
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I thought forged and/or machined aluminum was more likely to give but cast aluminum (maybe extruded) is more likely to snap.
Reminds me of Forged in Fire and how an improperly tempered blade just snaps like it is a twig.
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Why wouldn’t there be a recall on Gen 1? That would cost money! Why would they do that when they can just release a gen 2? Sounds unethical, but that is exactly how they responded to issues with the gen 1 predator platform. Read it from the horses mouth: Predator Platform
What process do they use to make the steps? Anybody really know
Looks like if they just increase the wall thickness of where the step interacts with the tube they won't fold in half like the 1 in the pic tried to do...if I had to guess, a crack formed at the roll pin hole and it did what aluminum normally does...no indication of anything out of the ordinary to total failure
Looks like if they just increase the wall thickness of where the step interacts with the tube they won't fold in half like the 1 in the pic tried to do...if I had to guess, a crack formed at the roll pin hole and it did what aluminum normally does...no indication of anything out of the ordinary to total failure
I'm also curious why the expectation around these sticks is that they will perform flawlessly, and anything less than perfection is a disappointment.
Think about it - there's the original idea of a climbing stick - get you up a tree, where no climbing sticks currently exist. How should I build a climbing stick? Well, it needs to hold up overweight rednecks and get them up the tree. Steel, thicker than needed. ratchet straps.
Then someone comes along and says "I can make that thing out of aluminum and still be strong enough to support overweight rednecks". They print money and everyone's expectations are that they work and will work. Because they were designed with priority on working.
Then somewhere along the way, it became a strong status signal to #godeep and hunt hard and mobile hunting. Like any other status signal, more is better. These sticks are designed to send the signal that you're willing to pay 500.00 to shed 6lbs because of how deep you hunt. That's the entire premise. We shouldn't be surprised that in the effort to achieve a pound, certain tradeoffs and hiccups will occur.
By the way, I'm not saying there's anyting wrong with either ways of solving problems. But making sticks weigh a pound create problems where there need not be problems. Expecting things to just work is silly. The cheap heavy business model and the light expensive business model are both viable. Expecting the products to perform the same way is the expecter's fault, not the business.
Think about it - there's the original idea of a climbing stick - get you up a tree, where no climbing sticks currently exist. How should I build a climbing stick? Well, it needs to hold up overweight rednecks and get them up the tree. Steel, thicker than needed. ratchet straps.
Then someone comes along and says "I can make that thing out of aluminum and still be strong enough to support overweight rednecks". They print money and everyone's expectations are that they work and will work. Because they were designed with priority on working.
Then somewhere along the way, it became a strong status signal to #godeep and hunt hard and mobile hunting. Like any other status signal, more is better. These sticks are designed to send the signal that you're willing to pay 500.00 to shed 6lbs because of how deep you hunt. That's the entire premise. We shouldn't be surprised that in the effort to achieve a pound, certain tradeoffs and hiccups will occur.
By the way, I'm not saying there's anyting wrong with either ways of solving problems. But making sticks weigh a pound create problems where there need not be problems. Expecting things to just work is silly. The cheap heavy business model and the light expensive business model are both viable. Expecting the products to perform the same way is the expecter's fault, not the business.
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Gen1’s excluded
That would make sense if there were multiple batches but weren’t these sticks just released hence there’s only one or two batches in total? Or am I missing something.
That would make sense if there were multiple batches but weren’t these sticks just released hence there’s only one or two batches in total? Or am I missing something.
Interesting that the main site doesn't show the recall. You have to know the link to it
tethrdnation.com
According to the notice there's potentially 7749 sticks in the market. Mine are in the 5000 range.
I pulled the brakes on sending mine back as noted earlier. I do have other sticks that I could use if needed.
What I'm curious about the most is how many failed? One? One in five over hundred sampled? Is this a total hair fire or more a cover our ass situation.
All I want is better communication. It's all I really expect out of anyone or business. Just tell me *** is going on. If my dinner is an hour late cause your cook walked out and the bartender is cooking I get it.
Safety Recall Notice | Tethrdnation.com
tethrdnation.com
According to the notice there's potentially 7749 sticks in the market. Mine are in the 5000 range.
I pulled the brakes on sending mine back as noted earlier. I do have other sticks that I could use if needed.
What I'm curious about the most is how many failed? One? One in five over hundred sampled? Is this a total hair fire or more a cover our ass situation.
All I want is better communication. It's all I really expect out of anyone or business. Just tell me *** is going on. If my dinner is an hour late cause your cook walked out and the bartender is cooking I get it.
Interesting that the main site doesn't show the recall. You have to know the link to it
Safety Recall Notice | Tethrdnation.com
According to the notice there's potentially 7749 sticks in the market. Mine are in the 5000 range.
I pulled the brakes on sending mine back as noted earlier. I do have other sticks that I could use if needed.
What I'm curious about the most is how many failed? One? One in five over hundred sampled? Is this a total hair fire or more a cover our ass situation.
All I want is better communication. It's all I really expect out of anyone or business. Just tell me *** is going on. If my dinner is an hour late cause your cook walked out and the bartender is cooking I get it.
There were numerous gen 1 Predator failures and no recall. That to me would indicate this is a far greater risk to them.
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That is close to what I was thinking as well. You also have to consider tolerance stack with press fit pieces. The titanium tube probably has a pretty tight tolerance already (most tubes do) so most of your press fit tolerance would come from your plug and your step hole size and tolerance. If they were sloppy doing their tolerance stack there could easily be a scenario where the plug diameter is within tolerance but still the upper end in size and the bracket hole is within tolerance but on the lower end of size. This would be the tightest interference fit. If the interference is too great, you can easily cause stress fracturing during press fit installation. If I had to guess this could be the issue since tolerance stack is often overlooked because most of your parts are going to be made close to the nominal or center of your dimensional tolerance, not the ends. Parts can and will still pass inspection on the low and high end of the tolerance band but if they are at the worst case on (biggest plug and smallest hole) you could have problems. Add to the pressfit the pressure from the pin and it’s not hard to guess why they’re having failures with this design.
An aider attached out on the tips of the step is gonna be putting more strain on the area in question/that broke vs a foot on top spreading the load over more surface area
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You're unlikely to get it. They'll want to control information and direct as positive a narrative as possible. I hope I'm wrong, but flat out honesty is likely a last ditch effort.
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I will say from a Mechanical Design and Test Engineer standpoint, not all issues with a design are discovered in initial testing, especially tolerannce issues like what I described above. You go on making a certain part for years with the same tolerance, but the second you’re on the outer end of a tolerance on two mating parts the part doesn’t fit together or you have failure like what’s being described here.
I would love to have more information on the parts and the issues identified as the cause, this is the stuff I do for work and though it sucks when you have a problem like this, it is very rewarding to find the cause and create a solution as well. Someone from tethrd send me your assembly and part drawings, I’ll get this fixed right up for ya! Haha
I would love to have more information on the parts and the issues identified as the cause, this is the stuff I do for work and though it sucks when you have a problem like this, it is very rewarding to find the cause and create a solution as well. Someone from tethrd send me your assembly and part drawings, I’ll get this fixed right up for ya! Haha