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25% off broad heads at Grizzlystik

Patriot

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Joined
Feb 10, 2019
Messages
728
Three years ago at 8 yards I shot a small eight pointer with my light arrow, 100 gr. three blade NAP spitfire mechanicals that I had been using since the early to mid 2000's. I shot my biggest ever buck this same bow, arrow and bh and that buck dressed 194. I shot him at 16 yards he went 35 but over a steep ravine and piled up. Ever since that buck I got cocky and the mechanicals were easy to tune so I stayed with them. On this buck three years ago, the blades deployed fine, the deer was recovered in 40 yards but what horrified me was the dismal penetration. Back in the day, before mechs I used aluminum 2213's, 2117's, and 2413's typically with muzzy 100 grain heads or something similar (NAP Thunderhead, Wasp, Savora Swept Wing) I always had either pass throughs or very decent penetration. Arrow flight was never as perfect as I thought it should be and once I started shooting mechanicals I was lazy, put 100 grain field points on and "never had problems." Nonetheless, this little 8 had just finished freshening a scrape and I could have spit on him. Upon release the arrow flew perfectly, the buck made a sound I never heard before when the arrow hit, like a person gasping when a kid is going to fall or something like that.... that arrow only penetrated like 10 inches was sticking out of its side and pulled out not even 10 yards from the hit sight. Like I said blood was good and I recovered that buck almost in his bed. But I just felt like, why wasn't I getting better penetration? The next year I went back to muzzy 100's and started using my old heavier aluminum arrows again. I shot a spiker at 25 yards and again this heavier arrow fully penetrated. I started hunting with my old aluminums and muzzy's again. So it was a natural progression when I started watching and seeing others like the RF and the THP folks and then doing some research for going trad and seeing that many trad bow hunters use heavy arrows and beefy COC heads because most of us can't draw and hold 55-75 recurves or longbows so they rely on heavier arrows and tough broadheads to do the "wet work."

Last year I shot a decent 8 at 15 yards. If I would have been using a mechanical I wouldn't have harvested that buck. This buck had just finished freshening a scrape too. It was a perfect text book hunt. I watched him freshen the scrape and then he continued on one of the trails I was looking heading into bedding. At fifteen yards broadside I "Mehed" him and man that deer went from super calm to like a set trap in nano seconds. I was at full draw and the wind was perfect and more importantly so was the shot angle so I decided to release anyway. Man that buck immediately whurled toward me and I ended up hitting him in the neck on the opposite side and at went down his right side and came out by his right shoulder. He ran like he was spanked, squatty and tail straight out and I recovered him at 150 yards. That arrow severed his jugular on the opposite side. If it was a mechanical with a light arrow I'm convinced that based on the angle my heavy arrow hit him, a light arrow with a mech would have wounded him and glanced off because of the strange angle. Needless to say, I definitely recommend a heavy arrow and a super beefy COC BH.
great reply, thanks for the details. Now here’s a weird angle… I do 75 gr inserts with a heavy grain arrow lol. So I’m not a light arrow mechanical guy like you assumed. Im a weird hybrid guy that does heavy arrows, Easton 5mm Axis 260s with 75 grain inserts which thump hard but I do rage no collars and usually COC if I can get them but sometimes chisel tips.

with COC rage I get pass through, with chisel tips I get the BH into the center of the body cavity and they drop dead in plain site.

nobody is really talking about mixing up the two strategies of heavy arrows and mechanicals but I’m that guy.

i feel like my mechanicals and my set ups are more lethal but I feel like fixed blades are safer if I hit shoulder but I also believe the blood trails with fixed will suck and be much longer.

see my challenge? I’m weird.
 

Patriot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2019
Messages
728
Id give it a try. Started with mechs my first yr archery hunting about 7 yrs ago and switched to 3 blade fixed coc for a while. 2 yrs ago i went back to mechs and I switched back last year and im not interested in using mechs again. ive lost 3 deer with shoulder shots with mechs and blew through all the bones with my samurais last year on 4 out of 5 deer. one was a farther back double lung and she dropped not far anyway. Like others have said they just dont get that expandable "shock" and wont take off like a bat out a hell. Dont really know what happened n then boop theyre dead
how were your blood trails on the samurai shot deer from last year?
 

Weldabeast

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SH Member
Joined
May 23, 2019
Messages
6,795
Location
Northeast Florida
I have no proof or data to back up what I'm saying but 1 of the main problems with mechanicals is they don't survive either bent/broken/chewed up blades or bent ferrule or total fail with pieces flying off. If u add a bunch of mass behind the thing that already is prone to damage/breakage u are making a problem for yourself IMO..... structural integrity is#1 for good arrow penetration....
 

Spence71

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
617
I ordered some 125 silver flames. Like I said I have tried numerous broadheads fixed and expandables and have always went back to expandables. I hope these change my mind. The only real reason I am trying to change is my wife hunts to and she only shoots 50lbs.we have lost some deer that I thought should have died due to not much penetration. I am trying to figure out her perfect setup.
Well you’re on the right track. Just started watching the ranch fairy and googling all things Ed Ashby. Low pound bow heavy arrow equals pass through


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woodsdog2

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SH Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
2,315
great reply, thanks for the details. Now here’s a weird angle… I do 75 gr inserts with a heavy grain arrow lol. So I’m not a light arrow mechanical guy like you assumed. Im a weird hybrid guy that does heavy arrows, Easton 5mm Axis 260s with 75 grain inserts which thump hard but I do rage no collars and usually COC if I can get them but sometimes chisel tips.

with COC rage I get pass through, with chisel tips I get the BH into the center of the body cavity and they drop dead in plain site.

nobody is really talking about mixing up the two strategies of heavy arrows and mechanicals but I’m that guy.

i feel like my mechanicals and my set ups are more lethal but I feel like fixed blades are safer if I hit shoulder but I also believe the blood trails with fixed will suck and be much longer.

see my challenge? I’m weird.
I do understand your thinking but just think of it this way. Say you have a wooden broomstick and you want to breach a door. You have two options to attach to the broom stick. A three pronged fish spear head or an ice chisel tip. Which one would you be more inclined to use? So say then you could use an carbon tube (like a pole saw handle) instead of the wooden broomstick. Lighter but slightly bigger diameter but more prying power. Would you still want to use the three pronged fish spear or still the ice chipper? I think the front has to be beefier and heavy in order to do a lot more damage no mater what. Then it doesn't matter as much what the pole you are using is, the front is doing the lion's share of the work. Does that make sense?
 

Allegheny Tom

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SH Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2018
Messages
4,876
Location
Western Pennsylvania
I do understand your thinking but just think of it this way. Say you have a wooden broomstick and you want to breach a door. You have two options to attach to the broom stick. A three pronged fish spear head or an ice chisel tip. Which one would you be more inclined to use? So say then you could use an carbon tube (like a pole saw handle) instead of the wooden broomstick. Lighter but slightly bigger diameter but more prying power. Would you still want to use the three pronged fish spear or still the ice chipper? I think the front has to be beefier and heavy in order to do a lot more damage no mater what. Then it doesn't matter as much what the pole you are using is, the front is doing the lion's share of the work. Does that make sense?
I'm not crazy about your analogy. Yes, the point is doing the lions share, and the shaft is merely a broadhead delivery device, but the type of pole (arrow shaft) does make a difference when it comes penetrating deer, specifically heavy bone. You want the shaft to be as light (per inch) as you can get it, but as heavy TAW as is acceptable pertaining to trajectory as you find acceptable. The key is to put as much of the TAW as forward as you can get it (high FOC). You also want a smaller diameter shaft to reduce resistance...the broadhead ferrule should be the largest diameter (other than the blade width) of the point/shaft combo. Shaft diameter should never be greater than the ferrule diameter.
There should be minimal "prying" involved. Force needs to be 100% forward and not lateral (prying).
 

woodsdog2

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SH Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
2,315
Totally agree about prying and I admit it wasn't the best analogy to use but my point was simply to make it very staightforward for somebody trying to understand why a heavy arrow with a flimsier broadhead isn't the best solution. The convenience factor for mechanicals is fine until you have a long tracking job or you have to buy another pack of broadheads because you destroyed one on its first shot at game.
 

Spence71

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Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
617
This is the way somebody explained it to me. You got two cement trucks sitting on top of the hill. At the bottom of the hill is a house. One of the cement trucks is full and the other ones empty. You push them both down the hill at the same time. One’s going to hurt the house. And the other ones going to crush it and go straight through it and keep going. Which truck do you want to be?

Something like that was the story

This year I’m shooting 2 arrows. A set of GrizzlyStik 320 built in the 650gr set up. Shooting the samurai BH. TAW a little shy of 650 and FOC up around 28%.

It’s like shooting a dart. Literally.

The other will be a tad lighter and less FOC. Those are yet more RF branded stuff (Sirius Apollo 300)

Watch this…



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MA_PAdeerslayer

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
Messages
337
Location
Massachusetts
This is the way somebody explained it to me. You got two cement trucks sitting on top of the hill. At the bottom of the hill is a house. One of the cement trucks is full and the other ones empty. You push them both down the hill at the same time. One’s going to hurt the house. And the other ones going to crush it and go straight through it and keep going. Which truck do you want to be?

Something like that was the story

This year I’m shooting 2 arrows. A set of GrizzlyStik 320 built in the 650gr set up. Shooting the samurai BH. TAW a little shy of 650 and FOC up around 28%.

It’s like shooting a dart. Literally.

The other will be a tad lighter and less FOC. Those are yet more RF branded stuff (Sirius Apollo 300)

Watch this…



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320 at 650?? What you arrow length? Just curious I was considering grizzly stick arrows in the whitetail package
 

Spence71

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Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
617
I’m 28” carbon to carbon. 28” draw. 320 spine with 70gr outserts. 200 gr BH. And there’s inserts in there too.

I bought these used here. But almost ordered that exact set like 15 times. I’ll see which I like better. Which shoot better.

They have that same arrow without the inserts and it drops to the upper 500/low 600’s depending on the spine.


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PEEJAY

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SH Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2019
Messages
1,337
Location
In a van down by the river
how were your blood trails on the samurai shot deer from last year?
Even the far back shot had a decent one. The others all had good blood but didnt really need to follow. they all dropped in sight or not far past that. If you get your edge scalpel sharp they bleed pretty good. But its not always gonna be good no matter what you hit em with. The pass through ratio is what evens it out compared to mechs i think. If a mech doesnt make it through you only have the one higher up hole. I know its twice the width but it all evens out with how fast they run when hit. The ability to get it closer to the shoulder also gets you in the bigger arteries and veins closer to the heart and front of the lungs. Quartering away shots are gonna be more likely to deviate off course with a mech too. And even a longer path of penetration needed to pass thru especially if you hit opposite shoulder.

I will say this. If you hunt in rocky terrain the grizzly stiks get expensive real fast. They chip pretty bad. Definitely wont bend though. I burried one into a stump really bad too and it was a mother to get out. I only buy the clearance heads now. Shoot just the same. hit or miss with how much work the edge needs. my last two orders i barely had to touch em up but the first batch was hrs of work on a set of diamond stones/ strop. i went through 5 last season. i completely missed two deer and buried the arrows tho haha. After 18 yrs of hunting im still a nervous wreck when a deer gets close. my wife geeks out watching me shake if we're hunting together.
 

Spence71

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Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
617
No. Mine shipped last Saturday. Nothing has showed up yet. And, side note…. No tracking info can be found.


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BRAY2KAY

Member
SH Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2020
Messages
79
Location
West Virginia
I just got mine in. I ordered 100 and 125 grain silver flames but they sent me 125 grain samurais which are single beveled. If I keep the single beveled will I need to turn my fletchings or will they fly ok without it?
 

Spence71

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
617
They should fly fine either way.


But be careful taking them out of the package. They are sharp. Not sharp enough but scary trying to order this sucker out.
 

Spence71

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
617
I have these same ones used. I have 5 of them. One has some wear and tear. That’s my practice one. These will be the quiver loads this season. The other used ones are back ups.

I got a new site. I have new arrows coming. Wish it was all here so I could get started setting up.


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