Arrow Building Questions

[MIPublic]

Ok, so I've searched and maybe a saddle hunting forum isn't the peak place to post this, but I'm looking at building my own arrows for the upcoming fall season. I know there are folks here who have done this.

There is so much information out there my head is spinning. 4mm, 5mm, inserts, outserts, .166, .204, fmj, FOC. I kid a bit, but in reality I don't know where to start.

I don't plan on going full Ranch Fairy, but I like the idea of a heavier setup. Last year I was flinging 6.5 Easton 400s with a taw of 375. I'd like to shoot cutthroat 150/200 single bevels and I think somewhere between 450-550 is a good aiming point.

27.5 in draw - 64-65lbs

I feel like it's going to cost a fortune to figure this out, how do people decide what shafts to shoot, buying singles isn't is almost impossible, there are just so many options.

Any youtube videos/series to watch besides RF, any advice or articles to read, opinions on what to try, items to pick up, or places to save money I'm all ears.

Thanks in advance!

 

[MattMan81]

Food for thought. Grizzly stick let's you order a few different test arrows. Then will credit you back if you order arrows later. Not a bad deal. If you do the package with the broadheads you save some more. Its geared at 650gr though. But trying stuff is going to be the only way to know what works with you and your bow. Im planning on building some 650s soon. I was at 750 last year.
Victory will build you arrows as well. Just tell them what you want.
Just make sure you have good arrow flight. I'm a RF dust snorter. But 550 with with good arrow flight should do well for white tail. Expecially with COC heads and a higher FOC.
Here is grizzlys link if you want.

GrizzlyStik

www.grizzlystik.com

 

[woodsdog2]

I went to a Heavy Arrow build last year and I'm the same DL as you. To keep costs down I went with simple GT Hunter XT's. at .340 spine. My regular or balanced arrow set up was GT Hunter 5575's which I believe are .400 spine. I realized that with my original arrows cut so short, they were pretty stiff and I could have used them even with 250grains up front but they would have drawn past my bow hand with COC's not a safe option. So I bought the shafts full length as I have a cutoff saw and got them down to 28" which gave me the proper stiffness with 250grains up front but were still long enough to not pull the big COC into my hand or fingers. If you don't have a saw, get them cut to the arrow length you want (remember if you're going to big COC broadheads you're going to want to add some length. My old arrows were at 26.5" my current arrows are 28" Carbon to carbon. I added 100grain ethics inserts and the 100 and 150 grain tips flew the best up front. I was pulling my hair out at first as I kept getting nock right bare shaft tears through paper until I started to nock index each bare shaft to the spine or stiffest part of the bare shaft at a measured 7 yards. I just kept turning the nock a quarter turn each time and shot through paper for each shaft until I got a bullet hole with each bare shaft. Some took longer than others but it wasn't that bad. I did it over the course of a weekend spending about 1-2 hours on each day. Once I was confirmed that the shaft was indeed punching bullet hole or close to a bullet hole, I took a silver sharpie and marked the nock and the arrow so that if it did rotate, I could simply just re-align the marks again and be "on the spine" of the shaft. Believe me, this nock indexing on the carbons is very important or you'll think you need to re-tune your bow or your form is bad or you have cam lean etc. when it just is the carbon shaft not being shot on the stiffest part of its spine. Trust me, do this step for each bare shaft. Ok once I had 12 bare shafts shooting either a bullet hole or close to it through paper, I bought some Zinger fletches and slid those on the shaft. Now you don't have to worry about gluing vanes or feathers onto the shaft but even more importantly, you do not have to monkey around with trying to set your fletching jig up properly so that your indexed nock is oriented to each fletch the right way for each shaft. With the zingers, you just slide them on an orient each one AFTER you have nock indexed each bare shaft. Makes this process so much faster and easier. Finally, with the zingers, you can rotate them slightly for proper rest and cable clearance if needed. I oriented each zinger to my rest and nock index mark and I was pretty much all set. Now I have assembled my own arrows for years with my 30+ year old bitzenburger fletching jig but with the zingers, you don't need glue, they are tough and quiet and I probably will not go back to anything else for my whitetail hunting setup. I ended up with 21.7% FOC with a VPA 150 grain 3 blade COC broadhead with a TAW of 532grains. My arrow speed went from 275 fps to around 235fps but my bow is so much quieter now and the arrows fly like a dart.

Disclaimer: I'm just an old bowhunter; I have no affiliation with any of these products I bought them all with my own $$; Watch the RF playlist as a primer for all of this; also preview the @kyler1945 topic in this subject posted below.

 

[Camelcluch]

Without going all fairy if you fall between 450 to 500 grains with 15% foc, you will have good results with your set up. There are a ton of ways to get there. The Goldtip foc calculator is a nice tool to get ideas. Most important, shoot what ever you have confidence in.

 

[wyetterp]

Just some thoughts if I had your same specs....

I'd go Sirius Orion 300 spine with SS inserts & sleeve with 200gr Cuttthroat & feathers you install.

My math....
-8.3 gr per inch at 27.5 carbon to carbon would be....228.25 gr
-180 gr for the SS insert insert & Sleeve
-200 gr head
-20 gr lighted nock
-4 gr's for four feathers

would put you around 632.25gr with a high foc pile driver. Or 587.25gr is you went SS post & Aluminum sleeve.

 

[1simplemann]

I went full Ranch Fairy. It works for me. I'm blowing thru shoulders every year. My set up and DL are different than yours. However don't over think it. Here are some suggestions. Gold Tip Kinetic arrows are tough as nails. Hit inserts come in any size you need. Ballistic collars from Gold Tip strengthen the arrow considerably. Lot's of good BH's out there. I use Stricklands Helix's. Cutthroats are good as well. Plus there's a company out of Australia making a really good looking head. The name escapes me. Kudu? K something. Lusk did a review on them.

 

[rutjr]

I got the Ranch Fairy test kit from Sirius Archery Products https://www.siriusarchery.com/products/ranch-fairy-test-pack. The one I got was the 250/300 spine kit. I ended up buying hevier field tips 200/300 grain. I purchased the same arrows that were in the test kit. Vucan 250 with 100 gn stainless insert and 250 gn Cutthroat heads.

 

[Weldabeast]

I'm just a weekend warrior so keep that in mind .... Standard diameter arrow for ease of inserts/lighted nock and 300 spine arrow is what I would start out with. Get whatever insert u like and a field point test kit from whichever company u like. IMO it's really not that much more money to build heavier vs standard fast arrows. Hotmelt so u can assemble/disassemble as u are trying different stuff. A 27 inch 300 spine should be plenty stiff for.the weight u shooting for. I had 350 spine flying good up to around 550gr but any heavier they got pretty squirrely.....I have 200 cutthroat and I think that they are a very nice broadhead
Once u have all the components the RF arrow building playlist is a great start to finish resource....I don't know any other utube to recommend. It's a process so don't expect it be finished quickly. It takes me multiple shootings cessions. I will also recommend to build 3 at a time....u will feel less overwhelmed. U will learn little things on the first 3 that will make the next 3 easier and even easier the next 3.....all the steps are important...u can build and tune the most bada%# arrows that fly amazing but if u forgot to scuff the ID and clean before insert install than u wasted all the time and effort on an arrow that has low structural integrity. That's why I like to only do 3 at a time...Im less likely to miss a step while daydreaming of world conquest...

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Ok, so I've searched and maybe a saddle hunting forum isn't the peak place to post this, but I'm looking at building my own arrows for the upcoming fall season. I know there are folks here who have done this.

There is so much information out there my head is spinning. 4mm, 5mm, inserts, outserts, .166, .204, fmj, FOC. I kid a bit, but in reality I don't know where to start.

I don't plan on going full Ranch Fairy, but I like the idea of a heavier setup. Last year I was flinging 6.5 Easton 400s with a taw of 375. I'd like to shoot cutthroat 150/200 single bevels and I think somewhere between 450-550 is a good aiming point.

27.5 in draw - 64-65lbs

I feel like it's going to cost a fortune to figure this out, how do people decide what shafts to shoot, buying singles isn't is almost impossible, there are just so many options.

Any youtube videos/series to watch besides RF, any advice or articles to read, opinions on what to try, items to pick up, or places to save money I'm all ears.

Thanks in advance!

WARNING- I am by no means a professional arrow builder however I do enjoy tinkering and I am quite happy with the results, with practice and LOTS of patience (arrow building is an art no matter what anyone says lol) you will be happy with your results as well!
My set up is 250 sp gold tip hunter carbon arrows. I get them bare and we use 3” feathers not vanes. I put them on right helical to get a little extra spin. I have 100 grain brass inserts and I use 200 grain grizzly stik overkill’s which are like $60 for a 3 pack. I have a 32” draw and I shoot 70lbs. My arrows weigh 653 grains and my Hoyt RX5 still flings them at 248 FPS (it was much faster shooting 490 grains but that extra 165 grains slowed it down quite a bit!)
For your draw length and weight I would save some money and use 300 sp version of the Gold Tip hunter arrows like mentioned below. They aren’t too expensive. Add you a 100 grain brass insert to the front and get you some grizzly stick 150 or 200 grain overkill’s. That way if you aren’t happy with a heavy arrow you didn’t spend too much money. I personally went to the heavier arrow set up a few seasons ago and I love it. Not only have I not lost an animal the past two seasons, I didn’t even have to blood trail one deer and two hogs because they all laid down within 20 yards of being shot.

 

[kyler1945]

The everyman's guide to killing a deer with a compound bow...

Will an expandable broadhead on a light arrow kill a deer? Yes. Can you kill a deer at 50 yards with a bow? Yes. Is a 7 pin sight useful? Sure. Is the Ranch Fairy annoying? Yes. Is Ashby god? Sometimes it seems that way. Can everyone just shut up? I've learned the answer is no. Ok...

saddlehunter.com

 

[raisins]

For my first build, I would go Gold Tip Hunter XT. I would get a 400 and 340 spine test shafts from Lancaster Archery. They will cut within 1/2"and do a good job. I would get an arrow squaring device (I use Lumenok), an Arizona EZ Fletch Mini or Minimax, and Blazer vanes with a wrap underneath (I like onestringer wraps). They make 3 different weight inserts to try for that shaft and I would get 100, 125, and 150 grain field points. I like pin nocks, but regular nocks from GT will work. You can use hot melt for the inserts and Gorilla Glue Gel (impact resistant) for the vanes. I recommend using the Gorilla glue for the inserts also. I find if you square the both ends of the shaft, glue in the insert, and then square the insert that any wobble at the point is because you have a bad broadhead (and so insert tuning is not needed in my experience if you are using a quality head).

Pick your shaft by bareshaft tuning through paper. Shoot from 6 to 15 feet. Play around with bow settings and front end weight until you are happy. Then order 6 to start.

If you want an arrow saw, the X spot one is nice. The EZ fletch minimax will do up to 3" vanes. The mini only does Blazers or smaller. Get a helical one. For short vanes where you just want a nice, consistent helical and to do 3 vanes at once, they really can't be bet, even though they are plastic. Put wax on the fletcher arms, soak in acetone to remove glue, don't put too much glue on the vanes (a nice even coat is all you need, I put little dots and then smooth with a q tip).

On your test shafts, you can use hot melt if you want to experiment with different insert weights.

I think this is a cheap path to an arrow you will really like. For deer, I've never found that Fairy arrows are needed. Sticking with "normal" sized arrows and normal inserts will make things easier and cheaper. I would keep it simple for your first build until you figure out all the little things you like.

The arrow wraps promote vane adhesion, but most importantly if you need to refletch you can strip the wrap off and it is like having a new arrow. Before gluing anything, clean everything with alcohol or acetone (if it just cleaning off dust, finger oil, etc....I like alcohol because it isn't as strong of a solvent).

I wouldn't do everything this guy does, but if you want to watch a long video showing almost all aspects then here you go.

 

[woodsdog2]

For my first build, I would go Gold Tip Hunter XT. I would get a 400 and 340 spine test shafts from Lancaster Archery. They will cut within 1/2"and do a good job. I would get an arrow squaring device (I use Lumenok), an Arizona EZ Fletch Mini or Minimax, and Blazer vanes with a wrap underneath (I like onestringer wraps). They make 3 different weight inserts to try for that shaft and I would get 100, 125, and 150 grain field points. I like pin nocks, but regular nocks from GT will work. You can use hot melt for the inserts and Gorilla Glue Gel (impact resistant) for the vanes. I recommend using the Gorilla glue for the inserts also. I find if you square the both ends of the shaft, glue in the insert, and then square the insert that any wobble at the point is because you have a bad broadhead (and so insert tuning is not needed in my experience if you are using a quality head).

Pick your shaft by bareshaft tuning through paper. Shoot from 6 to 15 feet. Play around with bow settings and front end weight until you are happy. Then order 6 to start.

If you want an arrow saw, the X spot one is nice. The EZ fletch minimax will do up to 3" vanes. The mini only does Blazers or smaller. Get a helical one. For short vanes where you just want a nice, consistent helical and to do 3 vanes at once, they really can't be bet, even though they are plastic. Put wax on the fletcher arms, soak in acetone to remove glue, don't put too much glue on the vanes (a nice even coat is all you need, I put little dots and then smooth with a q tip).

On your test shafts, you can use hot melt if you want to experiment with different insert weights.

I think this is a cheap path to an arrow you will really like. For deer, I've never found that Fairy arrows are needed. Sticking with "normal" sized arrows and normal inserts will make things easier and cheaper. I would keep it simple for your first build until you figure out all the little things you like.

The arrow wraps promote vane adhesion, but most importantly if you need to refletch you can strip the wrap off and it is like having a new arrow. Before gluing anything, clean everything with alcohol or acetone (if it just cleaning off dust, finger oil, etc....I like alcohol because it isn't as strong of a solvent).

I wouldn't do everything this guy does, but if you want to watch a long video showing almost all aspects then here you go.

Yes, I agree with @raisins on these spine choices, with your 27.5" DL and shooting in the low 60lb range you probably do not need .300 spine arrows if going with the heavier +75 grain inserts and heavier broadheads.

 

[raisins]

Yes, I agree with @raisins on these spine choices, with your 27.5" DL and shooting in the low 60lb range you probably do not need .300 spine arrows if going with the heavier +75 grain inserts and heavier broadheads.

It also depends upon how he cuts his arrows and his arrow rest. I have a 30 inch draw but shoot a 28 inch arrow (measuring just carbon). With a full containment rest, I'm not worried.

 

[woodsdog2]

Hotmelt so u can assemble/disassemble as u are trying different stuff.

AND

On your test shafts, you can use hot melt if you want to experiment with different insert weights.

I used Bohning's Ferr-L-Tite hotmelt glue (amber colored stuff). To install, uninstall etc. I used an old long heavy weighted field point 175 grains or bigger to get the length to heat it up the insert you don't want the flame right on your carbon shaft but don't worry about heating up the insert via the point through conduction. Then use a plier on the field tip NOT your insert or the end of the carbon shaft. A little hotmelt goes a long way too. What's great about hotmelt is that you can then rotate your broadheads to all be aligned the same way to have even more shot to shot consistency. Although not needed with most quality broadheads as the ferrules are usually very concentric to the "bore" of the shaft, I still like to orient my three blades with my 3 fletch zingers and my two blade heads flat or horizontal or perpendicular to the vertical string.

 

[SoILslocker]

I am in a similar boat to you, wanting to go heavier but not extreme. My draw length is 29" & I shoot 65 lbs. I have decided on the Black Eagle X Impact in 300 spine & will be putting somewhere between a 150-200 grain COC broadhead up front, preferably a cutthroat but may have to find something in 175 grain. Should end up around 450-500 grains TAW.

 

[raisins]

AND


I used Bohning's Ferr-L-Tite hotmelt glue (amber colored stuff). To install, uninstall etc. I used an old long heavy weighted field point 175 grains or bigger to get the length to heat it up the insert you don't want the flame right on your carbon shaft but don't worry about heating up the insert via the point through conduction. Then use a plier on the field tip NOT your insert or the end of the carbon shaft. A little hotmelt goes a long way too. What's great about hotmelt is that you can then rotate your broadheads to all be aligned the same way to have even more shot to shot consistency. Although not needed with most quality broadheads as the ferrules are usually very concentric to the "bore" of the shaft, I still like to orient my three blades with my 3 fletch zingers and my two blade heads flat or horizontal or perpendicular to the vertical string.

Just be careful. A lot of people claim that they never lose inserts with hot melt or have them back out. My experience with a compound bow is that, you will have inserts back out unless you find the perfect target (and your field points should be perfectly mated to the shaft and screwed in tight each time). I just don't mess with it as a result.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I’ve l

Just be careful. A lot of people claim that they never lose inserts with hot melt or have them back out. My experience with a compound bow is that, you will have inserts back out unless you find the perfect target (and your field points should be perfectly mated to the shaft and screwed in tight each time). I just don't mess with it as a result.

I have lost a few in good targets because of hot melt glue.

 

[woodsdog2]

I’ve l

I have lost a few in good targets because of hot melt glue.

Actually just the opposite for me, the heavier heads in dense targets with epoxied or glued (aluminum inserts) is what gave me trouble. I take Q-tips with rubbing alcohol to the inside of my carbon shafts before hot melting them. You can also use a .243 caliber phospher-bronze bore brush to "scar" the inside of the shaft if you think you need that with standard sized carbon shafts.

 

[raisins]

Actually just the opposite for me, the heavier heads in dense targets with epoxied or glued (aluminum inserts) is what gave me trouble. I take Q-tips with rubbing alcohol to the inside of my carbon shafts before hot melting them. You can also use a .243 caliber phospher-bronze bore brush to "scar" the inside of the shaft if you think you need that with standard sized carbon shafts.

Huh....could come down to which arrow and which insert. Some folks have your experience, and other folks are also careful (heck, I used to soak my arrows in a bottle of alcohol for a while, then use tons of q tips).....and they still come out at times. I've lost broadheads in targets!

 

[weeksauce09]

Disclaimer: This is only my second year of building arrows, so take this for what it's worth. More experienced guys could expand or have better tips than what I'm offering. This is just from my minimal experience

So last year I went full RF with the Sirius Vulcan test kit (340/300 spine). I shot all different size field points from 100-200g with 100g inserts. Lots of time and work trying to find which one shot a bullet hole. Even some maddening times. Had to have my bow slightly tuned to finalize the process, which left me with a 300 spine at 550g and a 250 spine at 640g shooting the best from my bow (60lbs @28"). This year, I am going with Kyler1945's suggestion (he posted the link to that post above). I played around with the calculators he mentioned, found a weight and speed I was content with and built the arrows from there. I will then tune the bow to those arrows, if necessary. This goes against what RF typically suggests. Average Jack Archery has a few arrow building videos on YouTube, and he is a proponent of tuning the bow to the arrow instead of RF's method of finding the arrow that best shoots from your setup. Tuffhead Broadheads has YouTube videos from a seminar Dr. Ashby put on explaining and showing how different arrow builds perform differently. From your post, I know you don't want to go as heavy as he usually suggest, but the information and demonstrations do help with understanding and highlights things to consider during the building process.

All this to say, make sure your bow is in tune first of all. Method 1) buy a couple of different spines of your favorite arrow coupled with a range of different weighted field tips is one place to start. You can use the stock inserts and get heavier field tips, or get less heavy field tips and buy some heavy inserts to couple with it. Shoot bareshaft (3- 6yds) to see which one shoots best from your bow. Once you get close, you can play with nock orientation (nock tuning), and bow poundage to dial in the arrow. Method 2) check a spine chart for your setup and prospective arrow set up (sirius archery has one for heavy arrows), build an arrow (weight/FOC/Speed) via calculators, buy stuff to make said arrows, and tune the bow to it, if necessary. Then go kill things and get high fives.

Things I just recently noticed, that you may or may not already know. Switching from a standard diameter to a smaller diameter arrow will greatly increase your FOC. The lower GPI an arrow is the greater FOC you can build. If FOC is important to you, I'd forgo wraps and use the smallest vanes you can get away with. Preferably use feathers. It's amazing how little weight on the tail end affects FOC.

For me, this year, the method Kyler1945 mentioned seems the easiest for me. Let me know if you have any questions and I'll try to help if I can.