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Backing up your set up

bj139

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Jun 13, 2019
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SE PA
Are we talking about the second rope you hook into with when you unhook the first so you are constantly hooked in? We are not industrial climbers. Hell you could wrap yourself in bubble wrap and never leave the couch.

All I was saying was, if you don't trust your first system, out shouldn't be climbing on it. No need for a back up. We are climbing 20 feet up a tree and sitting, not swinging, not cutting, not welding, not rubbing our tethers on jagged metal. Climb how you want, but if you have redundancies, oh should check your methods.
Who said anything about not trusting your first system? You keep making assumptions about what others are doing. These assumptions are wrong.
 

philsanchez76

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May 20, 2019
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I uses seat belt strap material with an Alpine cobra buckle as a regular belt on my pant plus leg loops. Use my linesmen belt as a second tether almost parallel to my main tether line. Basically use my saddle as a sit drag. I dont wear my saddle going in but l do wear the belt going in as l prep it into pants the day before. Dont even noticed it. The 5-10 minutes climbing is the only time I'm dependent on one system. I used to use a RCH as backup but found that it pinched in certain places. A backup system work best if there is no single point of failures. Backing up only 1-2 aspects of the system seem flawed, l highly recommend a RCH at the least. Not saying saddles are unsafe, but human errors can't be underestimated.
You have a pic of this? I was thinking of doing something similar.
 

tmattson

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Jul 2, 2019
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South East Michigan
I have a "Riggers Belt" from 511 Gear I thik, that I can wear as a regular belt (independent of my saddle), and run a second backup tether to that if I want to.
Edit: I'll add that on my new TX5 I may also just run a second tether to a second bridge attached to the linemans loop, I believe the loops for the bridge and lineman are two seperate webbing systems.
 

raisins

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Jan 17, 2019
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My backup while climbing is advancing my tether and also using my lineman's lanyard. At height, I back up my tether by girth hitching my lineman's lanyard around the tree below my tether and clipping this to a nylon sling I girth hitch to my rated saddle belt off to one side. I keep the backup lineman's slightly loose so my weight is on the tether and the lineman's doesn't get in the way. If I'm really wanting a back up, I wear a rigger's belt I made out of a rated Cobra buckle and climb spec webbing and girth hitch the nylon sling around both the rigger's belt and the saddle belt.
 

HuumanCreed

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Aug 21, 2020
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585
You have a pic of this? I was thinking of doing something similar.
I can over the weekend. But its not as unique as you think, as you can see from a few of the following posts! haha. I just think on principle that a backup system should be completely independent of the main, does not have to be just as good or as comfortable, but does what it is supposed to do, backup in case of failure. At first I was wearing a Deus X-100 harness but it had too much materials that it was uncomfortable. It was not meant to be a between layer. So I actually just cut off the Cobra buckles and use seatbelt straps. Man that harness was well built, really hard to cut up.
 
Last edited:

gcr0003

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Not Alabama
I think the "back up" we are talking about is redundancy. For example, your ropeman or whatevever shouldn't slip, but if it did it could slide off the rope; however, if you tie a stopper not on the end then you are "backing up" your system or mitigating risk by making the rope more than 1 fault tolerant. Now your ropeman would have to fail (1 fault) then your stopper knot would have to fail (1 fault) = 2 fault tolerant instead of 1. What you decide to "back up" or be redundant on will vary from person to person.

2nd example: I can rappel on a figure 8 or my carabiner all day long just holding the rope in my hands; but, if I lose grip I will fall (1 fault tolerant). If i add a friction hitch like a auto block or french prussic to my rope I add redundancy to my system such that if my hand slips the friction hitch would catch it. No one is saying wrap yourself in bubble wrap, but I do think Bill is trying to encourage people to consider mitigating risk of falling or getting hurt by backing up your system where you can.

Last example: Some people feel safer with 2 tethers. In the off chance that you cut your tether line somehow, you would fall, but would be caught by your second tether. Do I think there is a high likelyhood that I'll cut or that my tether will fail, no. So that is a risk that I scale as low for me and therefore decide not to back up. Other people might assess that higher and want to add redundancy to that part of their system. I don't want to ever fault someone for adding safety mitigation to their system. I think it is only fair to fault someone for being unsafe and encouraging others to be unsafe.
 

HuumanCreed

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Aug 21, 2020
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585
I think the "back up" we are talking about is redundancy. For example, your ropeman or whatevever shouldn't slip, but if it did it could slide off the rope; however, if you tie a stopper not on the end then you are "backing up" your system or mitigating risk by making the rope more than 1 fault tolerant. Now your ropeman would have to fail (1 fault) then your stopper knot would have to fail (1 fault) = 2 fault tolerant instead of 1. What you decide to "back up" or be redundant on will vary from person to person.

2nd example: I can rappel on a figure 8 or my carabiner all day long just holding the rope in my hands; but, if I lose grip I will fall (1 fault tolerant). If i add a friction hitch like a auto block or french prussic to my rope I add redundancy to my system such that if my hand slips the friction hitch would catch it. No one is saying wrap yourself in bubble wrap, but I do think Bill is trying to encourage people to consider mitigating risk of falling or getting hurt by backing up your system where you can.

Last example: Some people feel safer with 2 tethers. In the off chance that you cut your tether line somehow, you would fall, but would be caught by your second tether. Do I think there is a high likelyhood that I'll cut or that my tether will fail, no. So that is a risk that I scale as low for me and therefore decide not to back up. Other people might assess that higher and want to add redundancy to that part of their system. I don't want to ever fault someone for adding safety mitigation to their system. I think it is only fair to fault someone for being unsafe and encouraging others to be unsafe.
I can agree with what you are saying. I do have confident in my main system, do not think it will fail at all if properly cared for and used properly. Too much 'back up' or 'redundancy' can also be a hinder to safety because people will get fatigue or try to short cut it. Same principle applies to password security, make it too hard and people will make it easier on themselves to overcome the pain of following policy. Everyone find their system. I think the best is when we offer it to the group, be willing to accept criticism with an open mind on what they think would work or not. Then you decided what works for you base on your own view point. At the end of the day we all hold our safety in our hand.
 

philsanchez76

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May 20, 2019
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TN
I can over the weekend. But its not as unique as you think, as you can see from a few of the following posts! haha. I just think on principle that a backup system should be completely independent of the main, does not have to be just as good or as comfortable, but does what it is supposed to do, backup in case of failure. At first I was wearing a Deus X-100 harness but it had too much materials that it was uncomfortable. It was not meant to be a between layer. So I actually just cut off the Cobra buckles and use seatbelt straps. Man that harness was well built, really hard to cut up.
Yeah I had a 1 inch d ring cobra buckle lying around and happened to dig it up and look. Rated for 36kn looped configuration?! Wow! That got me thinking like y’all said I wear a belt anyway- it might as well have a cobra buckle. It’s no heavier than my normal belt. I’m playing with some rated one inch webbing and some triglides to see if I can make some ultra light leg loops that would just thread through my cobra d ring. It would literally only add 2 ounces to my set up and give me a totally separate redundant system. I’ll post a pic when I have something set up. Overkill? Probably. But for 2 extra ounces? Why not. Great ideas guys!!
 

Zero One Actual

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Dec 8, 2020
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South Eastern United States
I skydive for work and as a hobby and my rig has two parachutes in it. I guess I only need my main canopy?

Even after I inspect my main and pack it and it is perfectly flaked and folded and rubber banded and I know it’s perfect and usable?

Or should I have a reserve chute still as well as an automatic opening device as well to back up my back up?

Now. This is where someone says “we are only at twenty feet and skydiving is from thousands of feet.” Well oddly enough, it’s always those last twenty that kill or injure you in both sports.

Anyways, what I am seeing in this thread is more of a “you do you and I’ll do me”. It’s the same in rock climbing. You want to free climb El Cap or Half Dome,Yosemite Search and Rescue and the park Rangers won’t stop you. But they will pick you up for free. Or you can use ropes and partners and additional safety measures. In the end, it’s your call and whatever happens happens.

But back to the thread. If anyone has pics of their backups please post them for any individuals that are wanting to learn possible options.

I am wanting to use the end of my tether to attach it to a LB loop since it’s hanging there doing nothing. Maybe a figure 8 to a carabiner to the LB loop.

Thank you in advance.
 

CZMark

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Sep 21, 2018
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Foggy Bog, WI
I'll throw my .02 into the pot.

Human error is way more likely to cause a fall than any equipment failure--like failure to lock a carabiner, not setting a stick properly or making a mistake when transferring from one rope to another. My tether, linesman belt, bridge and rappel rope are all different material/color so I can easily and quickly ID what I am connecting to what. I also weight test any rope I hook into before disconnecting from the rope I am currently connected to. I take a few seconds every time I set a stick to make sure it's on a proper spot on the tree and well-set.

Climbing, maneuvering around branches, stepping onto your just-set platform and getting hooked into your tether are the most hazardous parts of a hunt. One I'm statically hooked into my tether, I feel pretty secure.
 

philsanchez76

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May 20, 2019
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TN
Messed around with my back up harness (I know I know I should’ve been working)! ADVISORY!!! Don’t scroll down if you don’t want crotch pics! I’m sorry in advance. It was comfortable enough that I could lean in it for several minutes comfortably but sitting in it became uncomfortable quickly due to one inch webbing. But heck the weakest part of that system are the triglides at 15kn. Whole belt plus leg loops come in at 0.4 pounds. Most of that weight is the heavy duty cobra d ring buckle which I’ve been wearing as a belt anyway. Also the leg loops flatten out and can be worn as a belt as well for easy carry in. See pic.
B0AFAF5E-18C0-4D6E-A340-A75F6BA30144.png566542F7-2424-4871-B778-1448CD061F52.pngA2CFCC06-9245-4DED-86A9-8C66B8083F92.png2457A71B-5CEA-48DB-A722-3B5A92D0DEAA.png
 
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