Bareshaft/ arrow tuning

[Jimdude]

Cool, yeah I have clearance right now but it’s not by much. Would not feel comfortable shooting a 3 blade broadhead. Not even sure it would clear the shelf when drawing back honestly. I’ll probably go for 1/4” or so and see if I can get it shooting fine with that. Cams are in time from what I can tell.


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If you move the nock point at all that “will” throw the timing off. If you move it up, the top cam will hit sooner I believe. I’m not an expert but I am learning all I can about the subject. I’m going to leave a good link for you to read. This is my go to for info.

http://archeryhistory.com/archerytalk/The_Nuts&Bolts_of_Archery.pdf

 

[jtw0057]

If you move the nock point at all that “will” throw the timing off. If you move it up, the top cam will hit sooner I believe. I’m not an expert but I am learning all I can about the subject. I’m going to leave a good link for you to read. This is my go to for info.

http://archeryhistory.com/archerytalk/The_Nuts&Bolts_of_Archery.pdf

Gotcha, I got a few days before I can get to it but I’ll check whenever I do move it


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[Plebe]

Hot take, or what?

 

[Halfstep]

Hot take, or what?

Paper tuning and bare shaft tuning require good shooting form with consistency. A lot of people reject paper tuning and bare shaft tuning due to the fact that they can't get desirable results. Today's bows with short ATA, short BH and high let-off cams can make tuning more difficult. So, learning to paper tune and learning to read the paper tears is important to not only correcting the tune of the bow but also correcting form/grip issues. Bare shaft tuning is useful in fine tuning the paper tune and fine tuning form/grip issues. The better one can shoot, the better they can tune their bow and the easier it is to tune their broadheads.

Not all broadheads are designed well and some just don't fly well. A person may need to try 2 or 3 different broadheads before assuming it's a bow tune issue. Trying to de-tune a bow in an attempt to make a broadhead fly straight is not going to produce positive results.

So, if one can start with the understanding that they got good results thru paper tuning and bare shaft tuning, they can now accurately determine if the broadhead is compatible for their setup. Eliminating the bow/arrow tune and form/grip issues first thru paper tuning will allow a person accurately determine what steps to take next.

The 2 biggest problems people have with tuning, be it paper tuning or broadhead tuning, is that they are shooting the wrong arrows, either spine issues or quality/consistency issues or they are shooting too long of a draw length and are having too much face/string contact. These newer high let-off bows are very-very sensitive to face contact with the string. These short ATA bows create a steep string angle and for guys to "touch" their nose to the string, the nocking point is already deep into their face and creating excessive face contact. So, when one is paper tuning, remembering to experiment with string/face pressure can reduce those elusive tuning problems. Also, have a few different spined arrows and different weight field points on hand to experiment with can help to understand what direction a person needs to go next.

 

[Jimdude]

I recently put new strings on my bow and got an all new arrow build going on and I’m finally getting broadheads, field points and bare shafts hitting together at 20 yards but, I’m still getting a slight swirling flight. First I got bare shaft bullet holes in paper and went from there. Yesterday I tried something new that I read about somewhere online. Broadhead paper tuning. It’s been life changing! I can’t get rid of a low tear so I’m going to have to tinker with arrow lengths and insert weight to see if that helps before I advance or retard a cam. I hate the feel of drawing when one cam hit’s before the other.

 

[woodsdog2]

I recently put new strings on my bow and got an all new arrow build going on and I’m finally getting broadheads, field points and bare shafts hitting together at 20 yards but, I’m still getting a slight swirling flight. First I got bare shaft bullet holes in paper and went from there. Yesterday I tried something new that I read about somewhere online. Broadhead paper tuning. It’s been life changing! I can’t get rid of a low tear so I’m going to have to tinker with arrow lengths and insert weight to see if that helps before I advance or retard a cam. I hate the feel of drawing when one cam hit’s before the other.

Are you orienting your carbon arrow so you are shooting off the stiffest part of the shaft? That being the ridge of the carbon at the top or at 12 o’clock as it sits nocked on the arrow rest?

 

[Cajunyankee]

I’m back, got a new bow today and can’t get rid of a nock high tear. Bow tech said timing was good and he wouldn’t mess with it. Left right is good but with the rest bottomed out on the vertical adjustment (as high as it can get) I’m getting a pretty sizeable nock high tear.

Could the center shot be an issue? Or a too weak spine? It appeared to be setup right through the Berger holes when I got home with it and I moved the rest and it got marginally better on the tear but still bad.

Top 2 tears.

28.5” draw 57lbs. 26.5” 340 spine arrows with 175 total up front. These are just what I have on hand and was planning on using them for fun this spring shooting 3d. I tried some grizzly sticks I have in 320 at 28.5” with 170 up front and got the same tear.

Assuming timing isn’t an issue any thoughts on this?


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Have you made sure your arrows are not contacting the rest? Other thing to check is to make sure the rest cord isn’t too short causing torque.

 

[jtw0057]

If you move the nock point at all that “will” throw the timing off. If you move it up, the top cam will hit sooner I believe. I’m not an expert but I am learning all I can about the subject. I’m going to leave a good link for you to read. This is my go to for info.

http://archeryhistory.com/archerytalk/The_Nuts&Bolts_of_Archery.pdf

Moved both about 3/16” up and the cable stops are still hitting at the same time. Got a lot more clearance from the shelf now and still shooting well through paper.


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[jtw0057]

Have you made sure your arrows are not contacting the rest? Other thing to check is to make sure the rest cord isn’t too short causing torque.

Using a whisker biscuit but basically the solution was to run it nock high coming out of the bow.


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[jtw0057]

Hot take, or what?

Mfjj basically uses broadheads instead of a bareshaft to do any tinkering. I think if him and Troy sat down and talked for a day they’d agree on a lot but Josh has an understanding of bows that most don’t that he takes for granted sometimes. They’re both great resources for noobs like me trying to figure stuff out.


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[jtw0057]

What bow is this on?

Athens elevate


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[Jimdude]

Are you orienting your carbon arrow so you are shooting off the stiffest part of the shaft? That being the ridge of the carbon at the top or at 12 o’clock as it sits nocked on the arrow rest?

Yes. I measured every arrow with my bootleg spine tester. Stiff side up. I looked everything over today and found that tinkering with the cams yesterday caused the nock hight to drop so I lowered the rest back to 90 degrees from the string. Better today but not perfect. I don’t want to hijack this thread so I’ll let you know if I don’t get it straightened out. Thanks!!

 

[Iron_llama]

Yes. I measured every arrow with my bootleg spine tester. Stiff side up. I looked everything over today and found that tinkering with the cams yesterday caused the nock hight to drop so I lowered the rest back to 90 degrees from the string. Better today but not perfect. I don’t want to hijack this thread so I’ll let you know if I don’t get it straightened out. Thanks!!

Have you nock tuned? Bare-shaft and nock-tune every arrow. Stiff side up may not be what this particular bow prefers.

 

[Plebe]

Mfjj basically uses broadheads instead of a bareshaft to do any tinkering. I think if him and Troy sat down and talked for a day they’d agree on a lot but Josh has an understanding of bows that most don’t that he takes for granted sometimes. They’re both great resources for noobs like me trying to figure stuff out.

I like that MFJJ has put it to the test with shooting machines, which lends credibility to his take on this, one that I find it quite plausible. Wish that was available on video.

It's great there is so much information out there these days of a technical nature. Maybe too much sometimes, but you can't separate wheat from chaff if you got no wheat.

 

[Jimdude]

Have you nock tuned? Bare-shaft and nock-tune every arrow. Stiff side up may not be what this particular bow prefers.

I finally figured out my problem. I switched from feathers to zingers. I had to move the cable guard away from the arrow. That explains why I got bullet holes with bare shafts and not fletched. I’m sleeping so much better at night now lol.

 

[woodsdog2]

I finally figured out my problem. I switched from feathers to zingers. I had to move the cable guard away from the arrow. That explains why I got bullet holes with bare shafts and not fletched. I’m sleeping so much better at night now lol.

Your zingers were hitting your cables? Did you rotate the zingers or move the cable gaurd out? Too much cable guard movement can also cause nock right tears if you move them out too much. Try rotating them first as long as they will clear your arrow rest.

 

[Jimdude]

Your zingers were hitting your cables? Did you rotate the zingers or move the cable gaurd out? Too much cable guard movement can also cause nock right tears if you move them out too much. Try rotating them first as long as they will clear your arrow rest.

Yes
I had them already configured for max cable clearance. My cable guard wheels are fixed to a carbon rod that is held with set screws in the riser. I put lipstick on the leading edge of the zingers and found lipstick on my cable. I rotated the cable guard wheels away from the riser and had minimal tuning to do afterwards. I went back to my old tuning process. 15 yards bare shaft with tape to mimic fletching weight and a fletched field point. Tuned till the bare shaft hit plumb into foam with no nock high,low,right or left. Then add a broadhead arrow into the mix and shoot at 20 till broadhead and field point are dead on. At that point I don’t worry too much about the bare shaft, it’s there more for conformation of what’s happening. Now I have excellent flight. Didn’t mean to hyjack the thread but hope this helps the OP.

 

[BTaylor]

I may have to look into adding zingers to my arrows.

 

[Iron_llama]

View attachment 86668
I may have to look into adding zingers to my arrows.

Was always a Swiss Roll guy myself.

 

[Tree hunter]

For paper tuning, I shoot at about 10'. When I have good flight through paper, I shoot a group of fletched arrows at 10 yards and then shoot bareshafts, adjusting so they group together. Then I repeat at 20 yards, then 30. When my fletched arrows are grouping with my bareshafts at 30 yards, I'm done.

After that
I don’t with broad head and field points