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Carabiner or quick link for tether attachment??

Apex7 said:
That's why I have a linesman rope.
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also, the time that the link isn't on the rope and not closed enough to protect you if pulled tight is more like less than 30 seconds

if there is a 1 mm gap in the link, the link is strong enough that not closed it can easily hold you....closed they hold like 5 tons
 
This is a triple locking carabiner that I have used many, many times, for ascent and decent with no adverse effect.
It is not much bigger than the screw locking link.
The angled pin keeps the carabiner oriented correctly.
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I use a pear shaped link, which is too big to be swallowed by scaffold knot, but keeps the rope centered and doesn’t migrate into the “corner” like a delta Link. The small end also gives me a place to put my bungee ball which keeps tension on my rope all the time so it won’t fall down.7133CB11-5867-474E-9277-E5C94F3B85CE.jpeg
 
That bungee ball looks pretty slick. If you tie your pulldown rope to the narrow point on the link and pull on it, will the bungee ball disengage through the round end? This could be the foolproof self-releasing system we've been looking for.
 
I'll fess up to being a rule breaking 'biner rebel. I usually concur with the safety police but on this one I just can't get to where I see it as an issue if you pay attention to what you're doing.

The risk of loading perpendicular to the biner axis which I guess is what we have deemed crossloading, is when it is levered over a sharp edge like a rock ledge. Nowhere in girthing a tree with a biner does any similarly sharp force ever come into play. I usually double wrap and unless it's a huge tree, there is zero leverage on the biner. A smaller tree might have some but it'll be distributed wider along the length of the beaner on a tree which is a much softer object than a hard, sharp, rock edge.

That's just what I do don't take this as advice or permission to break the rules.

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Iron_llama said:
That bungee ball looks pretty slick. If you tie your pulldown rope to the narrow point on the link and pull on it, will the bungee ball disengage through the round end? This could be the foolproof self-releasing system we've been looking for.
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Not sure, never have forgotten to hook up my pull down line. I also hook my pull down line to the rope not the link.
 
2Sloe said:
I also hook my pull down line to the rope not the link.
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I'm still up in the air on this....I hooked to the rope for a season and the following year I hooked the link.....it's quicker and easier to attach to the link IMO so I tend to do that more...both never gave me any issues..I girth hitch the pull down so no biners to fail like I had happen in the past
 
elk yinzer said:
I'll fess up to being a rule breaking 'biner rebel. I usually concur with the safety police but on this one I just can't get to where I see it as an issue if you pay attention to what you're doing.

The risk of loading perpendicular to the biner axis which I guess is what we have deemed crossloading, is when it is levered over a sharp edge like a rock ledge. Nowhere in girthing a tree with a biner does any similarly sharp force ever come into play. I usually double wrap and unless it's a huge tree, there is zero leverage on the biner. A smaller tree might have some but it'll be distributed wider along the length of the beaner on a tree which is a much softer object than a hard, sharp, rock edge.

That's just what I do don't take this as advice or permission to break the rules.

View attachment 68313
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there's a video where a guy does this on a tree branch with an aluminum 'biner and a winch....he nearly pulls the tree over and embeds the 'biner in the branch....takes it off and it opens and closes just fine and seem unaffected

i use screw lock 'biners anyway, so a quick link is about the same

the only thing that would worry me is that aluminum is more likely to fail without deforming severely first, compared to steel

so, i'd say steel is always safer....also not sure if it affects us, but aluminum being loaded and unloaded over and over can fatigue it until it breaks, i don't think steel has that property or at least not to the same extent
 
Weldabeast said:
I'm still up in the air on this....I hooked to the rope for a season and the following year I hooked the link.....it's quicker and easier to attach to the link IMO so I tend to do that more...both never gave me any issues..I girth hitch the pull down so no biners to fail like I had happen in the past
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I’m not sure if there is much difference between the two other than the rope running through the link. Pulling on the rope might help the link stay more perpendicular to the rope so the rope passes through it more easily as you are pulling it down, but that is just a thought more than actual experience. I have to believe that the people who started it all had a reason for hooking the rope vice the link, but just as likely it was totally random lol.
 
raisins said:
there's a video where a guy does this on a tree branch with an aluminum 'biner and a winch....he nearly pulls the tree over and embeds the 'biner in the branch....takes it off and it opens and closes just fine and seem unaffected

i use screw lock 'biners anyway, so a quick link is about the same

the only thing that would worry me is that aluminum is more likely to fail without deforming severely first, compared to steel

so, i'd say steel is always safer....also not sure if it affects us, but aluminum being loaded and unloaded over and over can fatigue it until it breaks, i don't think steel has that property or at least not to the same extent
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Quick links are also much smaller than the average biner, which means something (in this case advantageous) in the force distribution.
 
To me, this is certainly one of the most intriguing things about risk assessment and safety consciousness in our community. We fixate on the carabiner vs. QL issue, which from a risk perspective is almost nill, yet we will actively climb (literally climb, not just hang) with static ropes over dynamic ropes, where the risk is much more significant. And almost never a word about it.

It's very telling about how we are informed and how we choose to operate, as a group. At least in my opinion.
 
Spartan said:
To me, this is certainly one of the most intriguing things about risk assessment and safety consciousness in our community. We fixate on the carabiner vs. QL issue, which from a risk perspective is almost nill, yet we will actively climb (literally climb, not just hang) with static ropes over dynamic ropes, where the risk is much more significant. And almost never a word about it.

It's very telling about how we are informed and how we choose to operate, as a group. At least in my opinion.
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i'm using a dynamic tether this year

just moving around at ground level and bouncing a bit, it obviously will provide a very welcomed cushion if you fall

i have a feeling if more folks tried it they would agree....even a few inches of give with gentle bouncing feels a lot softer

the difference isn't anything you have to pay attention to feel, it was immediately obvious to me
 
I have decided on a quick link delta for my rappel rope one stick rope and an oval quick link on my mad rock but I’m also considering a hollow block as a secondary with a carabiner with a double locking mechanism. I believe learning to climb in a way that moves the tether with your height and adjusted length. When we climb poles. Our safety has to go with us and no slack. I have transferred this into my climbing a tree. Little to no slack moving the tether as I go so if I do slip it’s minimal effect.
 
Spartan said:
To me, this is certainly one of the most intriguing things about risk assessment and safety consciousness in our community. We fixate on the carabiner vs. QL issue, which from a risk perspective is almost nill, yet we will actively climb (literally climb, not just hang) with static ropes over dynamic ropes, where the risk is much more significant. And almost never a word about it.

It's very telling about how we are informed and how we choose to operate, as a group. At least in my opinion.
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I would like to nominate @Spartan for president.... pls read what he wrote. It's pure wisdom and could save a lot of bones.

I will add to it: we have a majority of saddle hunters climbing with NO tie in. And a lot of folks think their Lineman's belt will prevent an injury or fall and it CAN'T do so. A tie in needs to be cinched and secure. Slack needs to be zero or measured in inches, not feet. A Ropeman can become a knife if ya fall on it. I have given ya the JRB Hitch and the Saddle Hunter's Hitch and the JRB Cinch as 3 other options as well. Don't care what ya use, but please use something. If ya need to leave something home, make it the Lineman's belt. Don't do it for you, do it for the people who expect you in a chair instead of a wheelchair at Thanksgiving dinner. I have heard and seen too much in my days, so please pardon my attitude.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
John RB said:
I would like to nominate @Spartan for president.... pls read what he wrote. It's pure wisdom and could save a lot of bones.

I will add to it: we have a majority of saddle hunters climbing with NO tie in. And a lot of folks think their Lineman's belt will prevent an injury or fall and it CAN'T do so. A tie in needs to be cinched and secure. Slack needs to be zero or measured in inches, not feet. A Ropeman can become a knife if ya fall on it. I have given ya the JRB Hitch and the Saddle Hunter's Hitch and the JRB Cinch as 3 other options as well. Don't care what ya use, but please use something. If ya need to leave something home, make it the Lineman's belt. Don't do it for you, do it for the people who expect you in a chair instead of a wheelchair at Thanksgiving dinner. I have heard and seen too much in my days, so please pardon my attitude.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
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one reason for my slow, 12 step climbing system is it feels so safe to me....easy when taking one step at a time to use a tether and lineman's and have zero slack

one time i had a step slide around a tree on me and i just went for a little swing around the tree....no big deal was kinda fun and was back at it in 2 minutes
 
Spartan said:
To me, this is certainly one of the most intriguing things about risk assessment and safety consciousness in our community. We fixate on the carabiner vs. QL issue, which from a risk perspective is almost nill, yet we will actively climb (literally climb, not just hang) with static ropes over dynamic ropes, where the risk is much more significant. And almost never a word about it.

It's very telling about how we are informed and how we choose to operate, as a group. At least in my opinion.
Click to expand...
This sounds like you’re saying it’s unsafe or somehow less safe to climb or hang on static rope.

I think what you’re trying to say is there is more risk falling on slack static rope such as what presents itself during one-sticking. I think it’s worth distinguishing the two. There are reasons that arborist climb static rope. The difference dynamic rope is going to make on a short tether fall is negligible and shouldn’t be pushed as gospel over the risks of using dynamic rope. Dynamic rope has its own pros and cons and should be used carefully as well.
 
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