CGM Preset Kit

[always89y]

For the short time I climbed SRT I used a WE stepp for this purpose. I just left a single step at height with my preset string routed as shown. The CGM offering is a much, much better solution. No metal for the link to ping off as it pulls through.

View attachment 99730

Genius

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[boyne bowhunter]

Genius

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Not even close to as slick as yours. I was just trying to use something I had on hand. The rings on a strap is far better.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

Not sure about SRT. Does it need to be tight to the tree to work better? (I have only used DRT) Most of the trees I hunt have a large enough limb not to far above where I hunt from and the rope stays close to the trunk. So @Allegheny Tom you may not need the rings if you have a big enough limb. Seems like the idea is you can carry less rope by having an anchor set lower and a large enough limb is not available. A pull string over a large branch can accomplish a similar thing. If it's in the right spot.

Yeah, not having a limb in the right spot is pretty much THE reason for these rings.
Even if there's a limb reasonably close, I might prefer to instead girth hitch in the exact spot I need not just close to where I need. If I intend to use my SRT/rappel rope as my tether, then I'll need it in the exact, right spot or my tether girth will be too high which leads to several comfort issues and shooting issues.
I'm really intrigued with SRT but there are a few issues I need addressed. These rings seem to solve some of the potential issues for my purposes.

 

[always89y]

Yeah, not having a limb in the right spot is pretty much THE reason for these rings.
Even if there's a limb reasonably close, I might prefer to instead girth hitch in the exact spot I need not just close to where I need. If I intend to use my SRT/rappel rope as my tether, then I'll need it in the exact, right spot or my tether girth will be too high which leads to several comfort issues and shooting issues.
I'm really intrigued with SRT but there are a few issues I need addressed. These rings seem to solve some of the potential issues for my purposes.

Nailed it. A limb will take the lead over our rings every time. The Crotchbrings are just a handy tool to have in the pack if that limb doesn't exist and you plan to come back.

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[bfriendly]

These rings are used for srt presets correct? The vids demonstrate using it at ground level and also at elevation. My question was how do you get installed at ~20 feet? Throw ball and srt? If so then why do I need the rings? 2tc? Sladder? Sticks? How is the initial climb done?
I've been a bolt/screw in step guy for 40 years but now I'm going to be hunting properties where I can't use those methods. I don't want to pack sticks in and out each hunt so srt seems like a great option. I like the concept of these rings but I wondering how guys intend on installing them. If I need to install by doing the initial climb with sticks, that's still very viable for me. Just had to ask how the inventor plans to get it up the tree?

In my situation, I am removing a leaner from a fairly large pine tree. I will go to the top of the leaner, connect a lineman’s belt, put on a stick and climb to the top of that, then put on my strap-to the tree. Great question! Each situation is different but yeah, ya gotta figure that one out

 

[Iron_llama]

This is a legit concern and one of the reasons we haven't listed them yet! Tryna figure out a way to keep that from happening.

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Have you seen the Thrym Switchback flashlight ring? It's a tactical flashlight accessory for the tacticool Timmies out there. One of the features is a breakaway ring so that your finger can't get degloved if you find yourself in a wrestling match with your finger caught in the ring. Pops apart and snaps right back in. Pretty slick, works as advertised. I have two.

https://thyrm.com/product-category/switchback/

We actually use masons/brick layers line. Much cheaper!

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I use synthetic mason's line in my garden. It gets sun faded and brittle pretty quickly. What kind of longevity are you seeing on your presets with this line?

 

[Dope on a Rope]

Have you seen the Thrym Switchback flashlight ring? It's a tactical flashlight accessory for the tacticool Timmies out there. One of the features is a breakaway ring so that your finger can't get degloved if you find yourself in a wrestling match with your finger caught in the ring. Pops apart and snaps right back in. Pretty slick, works as advertised. I have two.

https://thyrm.com/product-category/switchback/

I use synthetic mason's line in my garden. It gets sun faded and brittle pretty quickly. What kind of longevity are you seeing on your presets with this line?

keeping an eye out for the switchback crotch ring

 

[Samcirrus]

Have you seen the Thrym Switchback flashlight ring? It's a tactical flashlight accessory for the tacticool Timmies out there. One of the features is a breakaway ring so that your finger can't get degloved if you find yourself in a wrestling match with your finger caught in the ring. Pops apart and snaps right back in. Pretty slick, works as advertised. I have two.

https://thyrm.com/product-category/switchback/

I use synthetic mason's line in my garden. It gets sun faded and brittle pretty quickly. What kind of longevity are you seeing on your presets with this line?

Mine have lasted a year so far....all they're doing is carrying the weight of the rope. Also I try to ensure the string stays on the true north side of the tree so the majority of it stays out of the sun.

 

[Iron_llama]

Also I try to ensure the string stays on the true north side of the tree so the majority of it stays out of the sun.

Never thought of that. Good idea.

 

[John RB]

I know JRB put out a ton of SRT content over the past six months, including the videos about his floating anchor, which is a single rappel ring (or similar) on the front of the tree (facing the climber).

@John RB have you experimented with the concept that this CGM system uses - two rings, one on each side of the tree? Seems like it would help a lot with getting that horizontal rope angle around the tree that you always stress as critical for safety if we're going to girth hitch the trunk, while providing some advantages over the single front floating anchor such as less friction when rigging the rope, ability to use a quicklink or rappel ring instead of needing the maverick hitch, and less weight directly on the rings.

Interested in your thoughts as I know you've put a lot of thinking into crotch-less presets, if you'd be willing to share.

I tested a lot of different stuff before I released the Floating anchor ... and am yet to show ya how well the Maverick works on it. One important lesson learned is that we want our anchor to be set and cinched in a horizontal position before we load it. Otherwise, it can slide, particularly on smooth and wet trees. It might hold fine until we get close to it, as we change the angle of pull. Every tree's going to be different.

What concerns me about this system is if we wanna hunt at 25 ft and set our anchor at 30, how are we going to get it set horizontal? Two rings on the side are going to allow a lot of sag on the climbers side. That will transfer load onto the ring system. How do we know whats holding us? The way I tested the floating anchor (to prove it wasn't holding me) was to cut it with a machete while i was hanging from it. Has an equivalent test been done on this?

JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com

 

[Westfale]

Well, if there are concerns of not knowing, what holds the installed girth hitch up,
you can put my ear-shaped rings on a piece of bungee-cord, wrap it once around the tree, put an overhand, wrap it twice ang close it.
I prefer putting the ears in in 4 and 8 o'clock position and i can pull up the eye (or carabiner) of the girth hitch with the running cord, till it hits the first ear to reduce sag when loaded.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I tested a lot of different stuff before I released the Floating anchor ... and am yet to show ya how well the Maverick works on it. One important lesson learned is that we want our anchor to be set and cinched in a horizontal position before we load it. Otherwise, it can slide, particularly on smooth and wet trees. It might hold fine until we get close to it, as we change the angle of pull. Every tree's going to be different.

What concerns me about this system is if we wanna hunt at 25 ft and set our anchor at 30, how are we going to get it set horizontal? Two rings on the side are going to allow a lot of sag on the climbers side. That will transfer load onto the ring system. How do we know whats holding us? The way I tested the floating anchor (to prove it wasn't holding me) was to cut it with a machete while i was hanging from it. Has an equivalent test been done on this?

JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com

John if you are going to the trouble of setting the false crotch with a carabiner, why not just run your paracord through that carabiner and around and back down? Why run a secondary floating carabiner for that configuration? Or why not just run the paracord straight through and down and utilize the false crotch? Also the best material for UV resistance is dyneema. Polyester is number 2 followed by polypropylene, then nylon and the worst is technora….. so why not utilize a thick piece of amsteel to make a super strong false crotch that would be less likely chewed on from critters and even more UV resistant?

Also I got to see Jerry’s floating rings at Flaooza this year and I can tell you first hand, that once the rope goes through them and around the tree and is then cinched through a carabiner, a running eye or anything else, that the rings aren’t holding the rope off of the tree far enough that they are carrying any actual load. I am completely confident that if they broke away, it would in fact cinch immediately. His testing broke them away at 40 lbs of actual weight and since they never broke on us while in use, I am to assume less than 40lbs of direct weight is supported by the rings.

 

[John RB]

John if you are going to the trouble of setting the false crotch with a carabiner, why not just run your paracord through that carabiner and around and back down? Why run a secondary floating carabiner for that configuration? Or why not just run the paracord straight through and down and utilize the false crotch? Also the best material for UV resistance is dyneema. Polyester is number 2 followed by polypropylene, then nylon and the worst is technora….. so why not utilize a thick piece of amsteel to make a super strong false crotch that would be less likely chewed on from critters and even more UV resistant?

Also I got to see Jerry’s floating rings at Flaooza this year and I can tell you first hand, that once the rope goes through them and around the tree and is then cinched through a carabiner, a running eye or anything else, that the rings aren’t holding the rope off of the tree far enough that they are carrying any actual load. I am completely confident that if they broke away, it would in fact cinch immediately. His testing broke them away at 40 lbs of actual weight and since they never broke on us while in use, I am to assume less than 40lbs of direct weight is supported by the rings.

My video shows two designs: a false crotch and a floating anchor. When the device actually takes our load, and becomes a life safety component, that's the false crotch. It has a life expectancy and we don't know what it is. Are we comfortable showing up at a false crotch and climbing it in the dark if it's been there for a couple days? Probably. A month? A season? 5 years? We simply don't know when or if it got chewed by a porcupine or critter. And we want to be able to set up a tree and climb it for an indefinite number of years. A floating anchor accomplishes that. I have a paracord loop that I have intentionally not replaced and tested every year to see if it's still viable... And it's been there for over fifteen years. And if a floating anchor gives way, it doesn't affect our safety.

I have not used nor tested this device. I was just asked my opinion and it's stated above. The consumer of a commercial product shouldn't need to do their own testing. I would want to see the machete test: wet, smooth tree, 30 ft rig, so as to be realistic about how horizontal we can set it. Then climb, and while on it, the device is cut to simulate it's failure due to age or whatever ... We might not move. It might drop us 4in. It might drop us more. I don't know. I am just suggesting that none of us know for certain unless someone does the testing. I did the machete test at least a dozen times on different trees to gain confidence.

JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com

 

[Swampwalker]

My video shows two designs: a false crotch and a floating anchor. When the device actually takes our load, and becomes a life safety component, that's the false crotch. It has a life expectancy and we don't know what it is. Are we comfortable showing up at a false crotch and climbing it in the dark if it's been there for a couple days? Probably. A month? A season? 5 years? We simply don't know when or if it got chewed by a porcupine or critter. And we want to be able to set up a tree and climb it for an indefinite number of years. A floating anchor accomplishes that. I have a paracord loop that I have intentionally not replaced and tested every year to see if it's still viable... And it's been there for over fifteen years. And if a floating anchor gives way, it doesn't affect our safety.

I have not used nor tested this device. I was just asked my opinion and it's stated above. The consumer of a commercial product shouldn't need to do their own testing. I would want to see the machete test: wet, smooth tree, 30 ft rig, so as to be realistic about how horizontal we can set it. Then climb, and while on it, the device is cut to simulate it's failure due to age or whatever ... We might not move. It might drop us 4in. It might drop us more. I don't know. I am just suggesting that none of us know for certain unless someone does the testing. I did the machete test at least a dozen times on different trees to gain confidence.

JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com

Sounds like you're the right man for the job. Give it a go JRB.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

My video shows two designs: a false crotch and a floating anchor. When the device actually takes our load, and becomes a life safety component, that's the false crotch. It has a life expectancy and we don't know what it is. Are we comfortable showing up at a false crotch and climbing it in the dark if it's been there for a couple days? Probably. A month? A season? 5 years? We simply don't know when or if it got chewed by a porcupine or critter. And we want to be able to set up a tree and climb it for an indefinite number of years. A floating anchor accomplishes that. I have a paracord loop that I have intentionally not replaced and tested every year to see if it's still viable... And it's been there for over fifteen years. And if a floating anchor gives way, it doesn't affect our safety.

I have not used nor tested this device. I was just asked my opinion and it's stated above. The consumer of a commercial product shouldn't need to do their own testing. I would want to see the machete test: wet, smooth tree, 30 ft rig, so as to be realistic about how horizontal we can set it. Then climb, and while on it, the device is cut to simulate it's failure due to age or whatever ... We might not move. It might drop us 4in. It might drop us more. I don't know. I am just suggesting that none of us know for certain unless someone does the testing. I did the machete test at least a dozen times on different trees to gain confidence.

JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com

John you completely avoided my question. I know what a false crotch is, and I understand the floating anchor but what I’m saying is that your floating anchor is supported by the false crotch in the video. I was simply asking why add the floating anchor when you can configure your paracord in the same manner through the false crotch around the tree and back down… meaning even if your false crotch was “compromised”, the rope would end up hitching the tree. I just didn’t see the need for an extra piece of paracord and extra carabiner….
Lastly for all intents and purposes, your carabiner would hold the rope off the tree nearly an identical amount as the 3D printed rings would. The only difference is by having 2 supports around the tree, it’s most likely easier to keep your rope’s back side hitch more level….

 

[always89y]

I tested a lot of different stuff before I released the Floating anchor ... and am yet to show ya how well the Maverick works on it. One important lesson learned is that we want our anchor to be set and cinched in a horizontal position before we load it. Otherwise, it can slide, particularly on smooth and wet trees. It might hold fine until we get close to it, as we change the angle of pull. Every tree's going to be different.

What concerns me about this system is if we wanna hunt at 25 ft and set our anchor at 30, how are we going to get it set horizontal? Two rings on the side are going to allow a lot of sag on the climbers side. That will transfer load onto the ring system. How do we know whats holding us? The way I tested the floating anchor (to prove it wasn't holding me) was to cut it with a machete while i was hanging from it. Has an equivalent test been done on this?

JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com

Sound like you are stating that one POC for the rope is better than 2 for horizontal control. I have a hard time believing that's your point. Can you clarify?

No, we tend to avoid weilding large cutlery whilst hanging from a rope, then swinging said blade towards it! The insurance guys would have a hissy

We did, however, climb on the system, A LOT, with no issues with slippage. The rings actually retain the rope in a horizontal position regardless of height. A quick "whip" of the rope brings the quick connect in tight as well, if it's a concern. We found it not to be.

Jon, I would love for you to try them out. They are on our website.



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[John RB]

John you completely avoided my question. I know what a false crotch is, and I understand the floating anchor but what I’m saying is that your floating anchor is supported by the false crotch in the video. I was simply asking why add the floating anchor when you can configure your paracord in the same manner through the false crotch around the tree and back down… meaning even if your false crotch was “compromised”, the rope would end up hitching the tree. I just didn’t see the need for an extra piece of paracord and extra carabiner….
Lastly for all intents and purposes, your carabiner would hold the rope off the tree nearly an identical amount as the 3D printed rings would. The only difference is by having 2 supports around the tree, it’s most likely easier to keep your rope’s back side hitch more level….

I didn't mean to avoid any question... i just didn't understand it, but i see where the confusion lies now: In retrospect, in the prior video, i should have removed the false crotch before demonstration of the floating anchor to make it clear that they are independent: the false crotch does not support the floating anchor. Its just sitting above it on the trunk.

Differences between a False crotch and Floating anchor:
1. All parts of a FC need to be strong. FA could be baling line and a PVC ring.
2. FC can be short, FA must be longer so it floats left and right.
3. FC rigs the paracord up and down, where FA captures the trunk.
4. Getting a rope thru an FC is easy and can be done without a JRB end loop. FA requires a very sleek connection between the rope and paracord like the end loop.

As per the suggestion that I do some independent testing, I appreciate the idea, but i am going the other direction, basically just looking for the least expensive options. I have a bunch of metal rings (instead of rappel rings) waiting for me to test for creating floating anchors... if that goes well, it's gonna only be $5 per tree and should last a decade.

JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com