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Crossbow Realization

In my state, they were illegal for years unless you were disabled and got a special permit. Only the hardcore hunters bowhunted. Everyone else waited until gun season and blasted the first spike or fork horn they saw.

Then they implemented antler restrictions and it pissed a lot of people off. Hunter participation and license sales dropped. They legalized xbows to recruit more kids, women, and older hunters into archery season who had trouble drawing a compound.

A lot of hardcore bow guys, including myself, saw this as an invasion. I used to hunt all bow season and NEVER see another hunter. Now it seems like everyone hunts in archery season, including people who probably shouldn't be doing it. A lot of slobbish rifle hunters switched to xbows and they think they can take the same shots that they do with their 30-06. (Long, ill-advised shots, poor shot angles, no tracking skills, etc)

Of course this is generally speaking, and only opinion based off of what I've seen in my area, but I think a lot of it holds true. That said, I switched to the Hickory Creek Mini last year and I'm never looking back.

I also bought an Excalibur a couple years ago, but I agree that it feels heavy and unwieldy. For preset treestand and ground hunters, I think a conventional xbow makes sense. But for mobile hunters, and especially mobile saddle hunters, a horizonal xbow kind of sucks. This is where the Mini shines. Compact, light, fast, vertical. With two young kids, I have trouble finding enough time to practice with my compound to feel confident. The Mini is the perfect compromise for me.
 
DB4x4 said:
In my state, they were illegal for years unless you were disabled and got a special permit. Only the hardcore hunters bowhunted. Everyone else waited until gun season and blasted the first spike or fork horn they saw.

Then they implemented antler restrictions and it pissed a lot of people off. Hunter participation and license sales dropped. They legalized xbows to recruit more kids, women, and older hunters into archery season who had trouble drawing a compound.

A lot of hardcore bow guys, including myself, saw this as an invasion. I used to hunt all bow season and NEVER see another hunter. Now it seems like everyone hunts in archery season, including people who probably shouldn't be doing it. A lot of slobbish rifle hunters switched to xbows and they think they can take the same shots that they do with their 30-06. (Long, ill-advised shots, poor shot angles, no tracking skills, etc)

Of course this is generally speaking, and only opinion based off of what I've seen in my area, but I think a lot of it holds true. That said, I switched to the Hickory Creek Mini last year and I'm never looking back.

I also bought an Excalibur a couple years ago, but I agree that it feels heavy and unwieldy. For preset treestand and ground hunters, I think a conventional xbow makes sense. But for mobile hunters, and especially mobile saddle hunters, a horizonal xbow kind of sucks. This is where the Mini shines. Compact, light, fast, vertical. With two young kids, I have trouble finding enough time to practice with my compound to feel confident. The Mini is the perfect compromise for me.
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I catch a lot of flak from bow guys when I tell them I've switched. I tell them it's legal now and easier for me to be consistent. I love when they use the "I like the challenge" argument. If you really wanted a challenge, you would switch to traditional archery gear. 80% let off cams and fiber optic sights doesn't seem like much of a challenge. :tearsofjoy:

Then I ask what they use during gun season. A 308 with a 4-12x scope huh? Doesn't seem like much of a challenge. If it was all about the challenge, you should be toting a black powder 30-30 with iron sights or a flintlock muzz in gun season.
 
IMO some consider it cheating as the hardest part of killing a deer with a traditional or compound is getting away with the movement needed to draw the bow. Xbox is already drawn. I think a lot of people just don't have the time or don't enjoy practicing with a compound to be proficient so they choose a xbow instead.
As someone else already mentioned, xbow is great for new hunters. My step daughter took her first (and only) deer with a xbow. Our land was in the middle of dog country and thus once gun season opened, deer vanished, so I needed to get her opportunities during bow season but she wasn't big enough to pull a compound. Xbow was perfect choice.
 
DB4x4 said:
I catch a lot of flak from bow guys when I tell them I've switched. I tell them it's legal now and easier for me to be consistent. I love when they use the "I like the challenge" argument. If you really wanted a challenge, you would switch to traditional archery gear. 80% let off cams and fiber optic sights doesn't seem like much of a challenge. :tearsofjoy:

Then I ask what they use during gun season. A 308 with a 4-12x scope huh? Doesn't seem like much of a challenge. If it was all about the challenge, you should be toting a black powder 30-30 with iron sights or a flintlock muzz in gun season.
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I treat the Mini like I would any other bow. I still have to get close, I still have to wait for a good shot, I still have to seal the deal and take out the lungs.

I self impose a 30 yard effective range, because I believe too many bad things can happen outside of that.

I think a lot of the hate stems from the folks that use xbows and don't follow the classic "unwritten rules of archery hunting". Probably another stereotypical case of a couple of bad apples making the whole bunch look bad.
 
Cat's outta the bag here, it is what it is. I don't personally like all the increased traffic in season. We're supposed to say we like all the increased traffic because it's supposedly what's best for us. I prefer to decide what is best for me. I've shot them, they're fun to shoot. They are unwieldy I don't care to tote one around. I believe drawing in the presence of game is a foundational component of archery. I think Ravin intentionally advertising 100 yard shots is flat out reckless and should be shunned as a company and possibly karma could burn the place down or something. That's about it, they're legal and as long as it's legal you do what you want! If you're doing it to impress me anyway, I'd say you need a psych diagnosis.
 
woodsdog2 said:
This is assuming the crossbow isn’t out of time. Correct that there is no archers paradox with a rail based crossbow where the bolt travels down the rail and also with models like Mission’s SUB-1 series and others where both cams are slaved to each other. However, many models are not and to ensure consistent accuracy, the cams must be timed so that you do not get left-right group spread down range AND you still must ensure that you’re shooting off the stiffest part of the arrow with carbon shafts. Namely, the stiff part of the carbon shaft straight down (at the 6 o’clock position) with the cock vane aligned with that position (ideally). Upon release, the string forces the shaft down on the rail the whole way along said rail during the shot cycle. In other words, you may have to index tune some of your bolts to bring in fliers just like shooting carbons from vertical bows.
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Thats why i went with excalibur, i can change the string in the field and it’s unbelievably accurate out to 60yds.
 
I will add my 2 cents and echo some people on here.
I can shoot both a compound and a crossbow. Crossbows take out a bunch of the human elements and factors that make us miss with a compound.
If you are not sending dozens of arrows down range every week with a compound bow, you should not be hunting with it. It is all muscle memory. I have 2 young kids and can not find the time to spend sending arrows down range. That is why I use a crossbow.
With that being said a crossbow is still a bow and your shots should still be with in 40 yards. I have sighted in various crossbows in from a ravin to a mini, set them in the corner and months later come back and drill the 10 ring at 40 yards on the first shot. Good luck doing that with a compound bow.
 
Dissenting opinion alert!!! This isnt going to be exactly crossgun specific but more of a general view weapons discussions and seasons, etc. To start, I do not care one bit about the weapon any person chooses to hunt with as long as it is legal and they put the time and effort in to be proficient with it. Anything less shows a complete lack of respect for the game being pursued. I simply have no respect for those folks and object to them being called hunters. I do light heartedly object to using a crossbow and calling it archery or bowhunting because it simply is not. Same as a dude in a dress aint a girl but I guess if you identify as a binary bowhunter, have at it. The bigger issue though and I am not exactly sure where I fall on this just yet, but it may be time to reevaluate weapon/season structures, at least in some states. The tech advances across compound bow, crossbow and ML's has moved there effectiveness so far beyond where it was, I question the need for separation of seasons. Primitive seasons were set asides largely because of the limited range and the lower success rates that result from that. Modern compounds and ML's are hardly the primitive short range weapons they were when seasons for them first came about but is it reasonable to lump them in with centerfire rifles? I cant quite get there with compounds but I can with modern crossbows and ML's. Keep in mind our MG season for a big portion of my state is I think 6 weeks long through the middle of the rut. Between the evolving tech and society's general move towards an I want what I want and dont care what anyone thinks attitude, I think what we may need rather than more R3 is a renewed focus on what it means to be a hunter and the importance of sound conservation. But I am just getting old and cranky so STAY OFF MY GRASS, fricken crossgunners. ;)
 
DB4x4 said:
I catch a lot of flak from bow guys when I tell them I've switched. I tell them it's legal now and easier for me to be consistent. I love when they use the "I like the challenge" argument. If you really wanted a challenge, you would switch to traditional archery gear. 80% let off cams and fiber optic sights doesn't seem like much of a challenge. :tearsofjoy:

Then I ask what they use during gun season. A 308 with a 4-12x scope huh? Doesn't seem like much of a challenge. If it was all about the challenge, you should be toting a black powder 30-30 with iron sights or a flintlock muzz in gun season.
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Agreed. I use my crossbow during gun season. Have a safe full of long guns. I haven’t opened that safe in the 4 years since I bought my bow.
 
elk yinzer said:
Cat's outta the bag here, it is what it is. I don't personally like all the increased traffic in season. We're supposed to say we like all the increased traffic because it's supposedly what's best for us. I prefer to decide what is best for me. I've shot them, they're fun to shoot. They are unwieldy I don't care to tote one around. I believe drawing in the presence of game is a foundational component of archery. I think Ravin intentionally advertising 100 yard shots is flat out reckless and should be shunned as a company and possibly karma could burn the place down or something. That's about it, they're legal and as long as it's legal you do what you want! If you're doing it to impress me anyway, I'd say you need a psych diagnosis.
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Just curious, does UBP embrace crossbows now? Seems like they'd almost have no choice anymore?
 
BenG said:
Just curious, does UBP embrace crossbows now? Seems like they'd almost have no choice anymore?
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It's sort of a developing topic over the past several months. I'm not really sure where it stands right now to speak for the organization. I've been a bit tied up with work and hunting season and family stuff lately and kinda got out of the loop.

In terms of not having a choice, that's my practical view as well. My personal feelings diverge a bit from my duties as a board member. As a board member, I am in favor of a more inclusive approach. The realist in me knows there is zero chance of going back, so might as well embrace it and build a coalition to get more done for all.
 
BenG said:
I don't hate on crossbows but if you can shoot your compound farther and more accurate than a crossbow than you're one heck of an archer.
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Exactly. The average person will never shoot a compound bow as accurately at middle to long ranges as he or she will shoot a crossbow.

It takes a lot of technical expertise, experience, and practice for an archer to close the gap on a crossbow even in middle distance. There are folks like Chris Bee taking the 100yd bow vs crossbow challenge and rising to the occasion with the compound, if we're to take that authentically. But they're the exception.

Nonetheless, freehanding a xbow does require good mechanics and certainly isn't "easy" per se. In this respect, the push and pull hold of a compound bow provides a naturally stabilizing effect that is superior, imo. Nonetheless, there are shooting positions and equipment to brace a xbow, whereas it's freehand all the time with a compound.

Xbows are producing superior speeds that flatten arrow trajectory giving them substantial advantage on shots of unknown distance. And magnified optics certainly help for the long shots.

With xbow cam-cam distances shrinking and vertical offerings, working around objects is no longer quite the challenge it once was.

So, I guess my position is, I disagree with the general premise that modern crossbows aren't largely advantageous to the average hunter over other stick and string options.
 
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Plebe said:
Exactly. The average person will never shoot a compound bow as accurately at middle to long ranges as he or she will shoot a crossbow.

It takes a lot of technical expertise, experience, and practice for an archer to close the gap on a crossbow even in middle distance. There are folks like Chris Bee taking the 100yd bow vs crossbow challenge and rising to the occasion with the compound, if we're to take that authentically. But they're the exception.

Nonetheless, freehanding a xbow does require good mechanics and certainly isn't "easy" per se. In this respect, the push and pull hold of a compound bow provides a naturally stabilizing effect that is superior, imo. Nonetheless, there are shooting positions and equipment to brace a xbow, whereas it's freehand all the time with a compound.

Xbows are producing superior speeds that flatten arrow trajectory giving them substantial advantage on shots of unknown distance. And magnified optics certainly help for the long shots.

And with xbow cam-cam distances shrinking and vertical offerings, working around objects is no longer quite the challenge it once was.

So, I guess my position is, I disagree with the general premise that modern crossbows aren't largely advantageous to the average hunter over other stick and string options.
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I have shot a grand total of one crossbow, a ravin. Shots 4,5 &6 were in a softball size group from 80 yards and from a kneeling position. Significantly easier to be proficient at distance than with a compound. Very impressive weapon.
 
Hmm, correct me if I'm wrong, but did not @Nutterbuster once posted a video where he argue that hunting season should not have weapon biases at all? That labeling and dividing the seasons create division between the community?

It depends on what your objective when it comes to hunting. Personally, I feel that airbow/bowgun should be classified as firearm instead of archery equipment.

My 8 year old son can softball group at 50 yards with my cheap Barnett Jackal crossbow. Its going to be what he carry into the wood the first time whitetail hunting.

But to be honest I dont see a lot of hate towards crossbow as much as everyone seem to see. I honestly see more elitist attitude from trad bow hunters against compound bow hunters.
 
What is an average archery shooting at say 40 or 50 yards? I'm pretty much the only archer I know and I'm definitely the only one doing any of the things you see here or RF or really even Elk shape/mfjj
 
I would say around there yes, and once i started getting around other bow hunters and shooting local 3d matches ive realized or at least in my circle is alot of deer hunters cannot shoot well past 40 yds. Shooting successfully with trad for about 6 years before even touching a compound, My excessive practice and obsession coupled with modern compounds has made me a heart shot archer out to 100yds confidently. But that was never a thing before social media that i can remember, and i only subscribe to practicing at double the distance you plan to shoot a deer at, im in Louisiana in thick hardwoods and i know for a fact id never get a chance to even shoot a deer at 40-50 yds in the woods and never have yet i practice from 0-100 yds. Now hogs is a different story, ill throw rocks at them if i have the chance lol


Horn said:
What is an average archery shooting at say 40 or 50 yards? I'm pretty much the only archer I know and I'm definitely the only one doing any of the things you see here or RF or really even Elk shape/mfjj
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