Ditch the Prusik; the "Double Meech" is so smooth, it's an SRT device

[John RB]

I'm thinking I'm going to use similar setup but Resc Tech and 6mm Sterling TRC. Anyone want to chime in offer any advice on that combo? I'll be using this in place of my Safeguard at height and to rappel.

Okay, so I realized I used an SRT climb as a means by which to demonstrate the properties of the friction hitch. But actually using it on an SRT climb is a little bit difficult because of the positioning of the hitch when it comes to setting your anchor. If you use a basal anchor, no problem because it can be type in advance and will be roughly in the right position. But if you want to use it for a canopy anchor, think that through. Because if you're not planning on tying The Jig in the woods, you need enough rope on the line to slide it into position. You can't just have 35 ft of rope and use a 30-foot crotch because you won't be able to pass hitches when you set the canopy anchor. Does that make sense? These are the challenges which led me from this system to the jrb system which is essentially the same thing but on both sides of a parallel stationery doubled line

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[John RB]

I think there were some voice to text errors in my last message, but I think you will figure it out. I'm on the run today....

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[Wirrex]

I appreciate what you are doing here! I will be experimenting with some of your methods in my system. Thanks.

 

[tmattson]

An aramid core cord might not be the best choice for this use, wear is similar to a bridge, with so many other choices.

Why is this?

 

[mtsrunner]

Okay, so I realized I used an SRT climb as a means by which to demonstrate the properties of the friction hitch. But actually using it on an SRT climb is a little bit difficult because of the positioning of the hitch when it comes to setting your anchor. If you use a basal anchor, no problem because it can be type in advance and will be roughly in the right position. But if you want to use it for a canopy anchor, think that through. Because if you're not planning on tying The Jig in the woods, you need enough rope on the line to slide it into position. You can't just have 35 ft of rope and use a 30-foot crotch because you won't be able to pass hitches when you set the canopy anchor. Does that make sense? These are the challenges which led me from this system to the jrb system which is essentially the same thing but on both sides of a parallel stationery doubled line

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This is true. I have kind of experimented and done the math on this one. I tried this with a 58’ long rope today. If you tie an alpine butterfly and leave about a 2’ tail for your canopy hitch, your peak height for the anchor maxes out at 32’. For every 2’ more of climbing rope, you get an additional 1’ max peak. So, for a 70’ rope, 38’ would be the highest limb you could feasibly anchor. If you only have 40’ of rope, you are limited to an anchor of 23’.
This is assuming you will use one end of your preset loop to retrieve your rope after rappel.
The way to increase that reach is by using a rope with a sewn eye and make your canopy anchor by passing the working end through something like a Notch Quickie or a Delta link. This will add about 3’ to your max height because you aren’t using up rope to tie the butterfly and leave a tail. I prefer to just have an extra 5 or 6 feet of rope and not worry about hardware, but it does require that I tie one very simple knot at the tree.


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[John RB]

This is true. I have kind of experimented and done the math on this one. I tried this with a 58’ long rope today. If you tie an alpine butterfly and leave about a 2’ tail for your canopy hitch, your peak height for the anchor maxes out at 32’. For every 2’ more of climbing rope, you get an additional 1’ max peak. So, for a 70’ rope, 38’ would be the highest limb you could feasibly anchor. If you only have 40’ of rope, you are limited to an anchor of 23’.
This is assuming you will use one end of your preset loop to retrieve your rope after rappel.
The way to increase that reach is by using a rope with a sewn eye and make your canopy anchor by passing the working end through something like a Notch Quickie or a Delta link. This will add about 3’ to your max height because you aren’t using up rope to tie the butterfly and leave a tail. I prefer to just have an extra 5 or 6 feet of rope and not worry about hardware, but it does require that I tie one very simple knot at the tree.


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Great. Ok, so please understand i am not trying to sell you anything here. Just explaining MY journey. Say you created this system and ya climb on it day after day. I did. You're lugging 50 percent more rope into the woods than actually supports your butt during the climb and it's only purpose is to help you install your anchor. Plus you got to coil and uncoil it every time you climb, not to mention pull it up in the tree if it's a concern for deer to notice it. You also need to move that friction hitch a long way on the rope when ya set the anchor cuz it won't pass the loop or link. Both of those things will make you scratch your head and wonder if there's a way to eliminate them. It was an epiphany when i thought of just climbing both sides of the doubled rope : with the JRB method, NONE of that is a problem. The hitches are already in the right place every time, plus or minus a few feet if the height of the crotches a little different than the last tree we climbed. We also get to use a THINNER rope. A rope rated as a half rope is perfect for this system and we're in the 8mm range. And we don't need to take any time to set the anchor or attach a retrieval line. Watch this video... and just think of JRB method as SRT on two lines. If you're still with me, i will provide the full list of advantages over SRT... there is more...

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[mtsrunner]

Great. Ok, so please understand i am not trying to sell you anything here. Just explaining MY journey. Say you created this system and ya climb on it day after day. I did. You're lugging 50 percent more rope into the woods than actually supports your butt during the climb and it's only purpose is to help you install your anchor. Plus you got to coil and uncoil it every time you climb, not to mention pull it up in the tree if it's a concern for deer to notice it. You also need to move that friction hitch a long way on the rope when ya set the anchor cuz it won't pass the loop or link. Both of those things will make you scratch your head and wonder if there's a way to eliminate them. It was an epiphany when i thought of just climbing both sides of the doubled rope : with the JRB method, NONE of that is a problem. The hitches are already in the right place every time, plus or minus a few feet if the height of the crotches a little different than the last tree we climbed. We also get to use a THINNER rope. A rope rated as a half rope is perfect for this system and we're in the 8mm range. And we don't need to take any time to set the anchor or attach a retrieval line. Watch this video... and just think of JRB method as SRT on two lines. If you're still with me, i will provide the full list of advantages over SRT... there is more...

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Oh, I realize that you are putting this information out there for the good of the community and I really do appreciate it. I have watched every video you have made.

I have climbed several times on the full JRB system and it’s awesome. It’s definitely faster setup and tear down than SRS. If I knew that all of the trees that I wanted to hunt had a crotch that would support my weight, JRB would be my go to. I have one tree on my in-laws farm that has consistently produced deer for me for 15 years. There is one small branch at 27’ that I need to use for my canopy anchor. This means I have to girth hitch the trunk. I don’t think there is a good way to use JRB method for this tree.

Since I’m carrying enough rope to do either JRB or SRS, I will probably just carry a 6’ length of hitch cord with me for those times that I can hunt a tree suitable for JRB. I can then install the double meech on the second strand of line and climb JRB style. For trees that I need to girth hitch the trunk for my canopy anchor, I will use the double meech on one side only.

I will say that on one tree in my yard with a really tight crotch, I was not able to get the JRB to work because the Michoacán would get stuck and not pass the crotch. I had it clipped in to the end using a stainless boat clip like you show in some of your videos. It was a seriously tight crotch, though. That is not a likely scenario and you can always just find a better tree.

Thanks for your input. Keep up the great work.


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[Brocky]

Why is this?

Aramids are self abrading, the concentrated area of use with the rope running over the carabiner can cause them to thin and eventually part. This has happened to bridges with aramid cores, the cover makes it harder to inspect. With so many other choices may bother worrying about it.

 

[John RB]

Aramids are self abrading, the concentrated area of use with the rope running over the carabiner can cause them to thin and eventually part. This has happened to bridges with aramid cores, the cover makes it harder to inspect. With so many other choices may bother worrying about it.

Appreciate your depth of knowledge... also curious of your thoughts on Sterlingrope.com 6mm TRC cord. 15.5kN MBS. Quoting their website:
6.0 mm Cord
Core/Sheath: Nylon/Technora
The 6 mm TRC is a high strength specialty cord that features a Technora sheath and nylon core. Designed for high strength and low-elongation applications such as personal escape, rappels, or haul systems.


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[El Diablo Amarillo]

You put some solid work in there on your setup. Ill throw a few things out there that may help.
1) Arborists use a similar setup to foot lock up a tree. but both sides are locked up with a single hitch of your choice. The concern with independent hitches like you have is if one hitch fails you end up hanging sideways before you can blink an eye. Just the safety aspect of that alone is a strong arguement
2) look into a foot ascender for one foot and a knee ascender ( SAKA, Haas etc) for the other leg. It will totally eliminate having to reef the foot stirrup along as you go reducing fatigue and increasing speed plus you are using more of your large leg muscles vs arms and upper body
3) Having a spliced eye on your rope will allow you to SRT up then switch to a MRS for descent and totally eliminate the chances of any hitches getting stuck in a crotch.
I see your a Ft Washington area. Gap Arborist Supply and Penn Holo Saw shop in Skippack both carry a ton of climbing gear to get your hands on to help in your pursuit

 

[John RB]

You put some solid work in there on your setup. Ill throw a few things out there that may help.
1) Arborists use a similar setup to foot lock up a tree. but both sides are locked up with a single hitch of your choice. The concern with independent hitches like you have is if one hitch fails you end up hanging sideways before you can blink an eye. Just the safety aspect of that alone is a strong arguement
2) look into a foot ascender for one foot and a knee ascender ( SAKA, Haas etc) for the other leg. It will totally eliminate having to reef the foot stirrup along as you go reducing fatigue and increasing speed plus you are using more of your large leg muscles vs arms and upper body
3) Having a spliced eye on your rope will allow you to SRT up then switch to a MRS for descent and totally eliminate the chances of any hitches getting stuck in a crotch.
I see your a Ft Washington area. Gap Arborist Supply and Penn Holo Saw shop in Skippack both carry a ton of climbing gear to get your hands on to help in your pursuit

Thanks. I appreciate it. Penn Holo does my saw maintenance. Nice family operation.

To be clear, my JRB climbing method is dependent on no Single friction hitch. I can take out a hunting knife and cut through any friction hitch under load and i will not fall more than 6inches. They can slip and i go nowhere. Ya see, I have two independent points of attachment for my bridge on both sides of the doubled rope. An MRS system can't sustain a friction hitch failure. I had it reviewed by an international team of arborists, and rescue personnel before i released it. I can self rescue after that failure should it occur. Your right that getting it through a tight crotch could be an issue. But they are easy to avoid for a hunter who has choices. Its a requirement that my system has no devices such as a foot ascender. We can't put it on and take it off in the woods and can't wear it though the mud either. My Garda hitch design doesn't slip, not even an inch ever. The key is

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[John RB]

Diablo... to be clear, this thread is about a friction hitch. The SRT climb was just a demonstration of it. This is not how I climb. The attached video is what I was referring to.

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[El Diablo Amarillo]

Thanks. I appreciate it. Penn Holo does my saw maintenance. Nice family operation.

To be clear, my JRB climbing method is dependent on no Single friction hitch. I can take out a hunting knife and cut through any friction hitch under load and i will not fall more than 6inches. They can slip and i go nowhere. Ya see, I have two independent points of attachment for my bridge on both sides of the doubled rope. An MRS system can't sustain a friction hitch failure. I had it reviewed by an international team of arborists, and rescue personnel before i released it. I can self rescue after that failure should it occur. Your right that getting it through a tight crotch could be an issue. But they are easy to avoid for a hunter who has choices. Its a requirement that my system has no devices such as a foot ascender. We can't put it on and take it off in the woods and can't wear it though the mud either. My Garda hitch design doesn't slip, not even an inch ever. The key is

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Appreciate the clarifications and good to know you are familiar with that saw shop. I have to disagree with you on the foot ascenders tho. Ive had mud, tree bark, dog poop etc in my CMI and it just doesnt care. And I wear mine into the stand where its in the high spot in a swamp. The same one I wear for work. Faultless. Also a knee ascender is knee high literally so its one less concern for a mud induced failure. In regards to taking them on and off I have to ask why? Just leave them on. They dont hurt anything and when positioned right they arent even noticable.
I will take a look at your vids to see how that hitch can function in the ways you describe in a failure

 

[Bowmanmike]

I am trying your method,the saddle hunter hitch climbing specifically. Lots of knots to learn but I love the no slack set up. Last year I climbed MRS if I could use a throwball and used my platform and aiders as a one stick setup. It worked good,but it is near impossible to keep slack out of that system. And a linemans belt does not give peace of mind If I were to slip.
I built the footloops with the Garda hitch and have to work on making a redundant bridge.
It seems like a great system once you get proficient at it. I will use my bulky Samson predator rope for now to see how I like it. Then if I am all in I will look for a thinner,lighter rope.
Thanks for posting all those videos.

 

[Brocky]

Appreciate your depth of knowledge... also curious of your thoughts on Sterlingrope.com 6mm TRC cord. 15.5kN MBS. Quoting their website:
6.0 mm Cord
Core/Sheath: Nylon/Technora
The 6 mm TRC is a high strength specialty cord that features a Technora sheath and nylon core. Designed for high strength and low-elongation applications such as personal escape, rappels, or haul systems.


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A little light strength wise, but works good if the cover is relaxed-made slightly baggy, helps to make it grab better.

 

[John RB]

I am trying your method,the saddle hunter hitch climbing specifically. Lots of knots to learn but I love the no slack set up. Last year I climbed MRS if I could use a throwball and used my platform and aiders as a one stick setup. It worked good,but it is near impossible to keep slack out of that system. And a linemans belt does not give peace of mind If I were to slip.
I built the footloops with the Garda hitch and have to work on making a redundant bridge.
It seems like a great system once you get proficient at it. I will use my bulky Samson predator rope for now to see how I like it. Then if I am all in I will look for a thinner,lighter rope.
Thanks for posting all those videos.

I strongly recommend that you filled the system and get comfortable climbing with the jrb method. The absolute minimum is a friction hitch on each side and a Garda hitch foot Lube which gives you integrated redundancy into your second bridge. As you know, I only uploaded one video on the hitch climbing method. That was kind of intentional because I'm introducing it. I'm awaiting feedback from folks like yourself on what they need to know next. But I also wanted to make sure it had adequate time out there in case somebody recognized it as something someone else had done. In this case, it's fairly unlikely given my own knots. I learned when you learn and so please reach out to me somehow if you have questions

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[gcr0003]

@John RB have you had anymore time to climb the mammut 8mm alpine? What are your thoughts on it’s strengths, weaknesses and overall performance. Do you like it more than oplux, Rescue tech, or ultra tech?

 

[John RB]

@John RB have you had anymore time to climb the mammut 8mm alpine? What are your thoughts on it’s strengths, weaknesses and overall performance. Do you like it more than oplux, Rescue tech, or ultra tech?

I really like the Mamut Alpine dry for a straight JRB climb. I haven't decided which cord i like best on it. Ordered some Sterling TRC yesterday from EWO. The bounce doesn't bother me. An unadvertised feature of the JRB system is that if ya can use it in MRS mode, simply pull one side. For example if ya wanna sneak up the tree as slowly and motionless as possible. The Mammut has a more rugged and smooth sheath and should hold up really well if i use it that way. Oplux sheath is NOT bonded to the core, so it has some travel in it after a season of use. It also absorbs a lot of water. Where i prefer a static rope is when i execute the JRB Hitch Climbing.... because we are loading a single Strand and the dynamic rope definitely stretches. Technically, that climb should be executed on a lead climbing rope not a half rope anyway. And so the Oplux performs better on that climb.

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[gcr0003]

I really like the Mamut Alpine dry for a straight JRB climb. I haven't decided which cord i like best on it. Ordered some Sterling TRC yesterday from EWO. The bounce doesn't bother me. An unadvertised feature of the JRB system is that if ya can use it in MRS mode, simply pull one side. For example if ya wanna sneak up the tree as slowly and motionless as possible. The Mammut has a more rugged and smooth sheath and should hold up really well if i use it that way. Oplux sheath is NOT bonded to the core, so it has some travel in it after a season of use. It also absorbs a lot of water. Where i prefer a static rope is when i execute the JRB Hitch Climbing.... because we are loading a single Strand and the dynamic rope definitely stretches. Technically, that climb should be executed on a lead climbing rope not a half rope anyway. And so the Oplux performs better on that climb.

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Thanks for the input. Please let us know how the TRC performs as I am debating on getting this rope and would need hitch cord if I went this route.

 

[John RB]

I am trying your method,the saddle hunter hitch climbing specifically. Lots of knots to learn but I love the no slack set up. Last year I climbed MRS if I could use a throwball and used my platform and aiders as a one stick setup. It worked good,but it is near impossible to keep slack out of that system. And a linemans belt does not give peace of mind If I were to slip.
I built the footloops with the Garda hitch and have to work on making a redundant bridge.
It seems like a great system once you get proficient at it. I will use my bulky Samson predator rope for now to see how I like it. Then if I am all in I will look for a thinner,lighter rope.
Thanks for posting all those videos.

This is an important detail which would have been too much to describe in the introductory video. And I will get it in there wants some follow-up videos. But I wanted you to be aware. That little yellow piece of cord that you see. Bank of that cord has a tiny little lineman's belt and object it is going around is the Rope itself. Figuring out that detail cost me 2 months. The problem is solved is this. Without it, when we stand at the highest position, we are pulling our friction hitches at a 90 degree angle and they get tight. They get difficult to move throughout the rest of the climb. But at the right length, that little Loop of cord only does its job when we are in that highest point, acting in the same capacity as a lineman's belt and ensuring that the friction hitches are not pulled at a 90 degree angle which would jam them up. I'm starting to forget which thread I am on when I post these replies, but I will get those details published as soon as I can.

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